Senator THURMOND. Commander, I find it incredulous that after staffing your papers through three different echelons and back and forth between panels and bureaus in the Pentagon, your original suggestion could have gotten twisted around to recommending a program of anticommunism rather than leadership. How do you account for this? Commander WADSWORTH. I can Senator THURMOND. Is it bureaucracy, stupidity-do you have any ideas? Commander WADSWORTH. I would say that, in my own opinion, the people who staffed the paper do not understand communism, so that it would be ignorance of communism rather than stupidity. I certainly do not think they are stupid. Senator THURMOND. Commander, I want to make this point. Nothing, in fact, was ever done with your correspondence. Not until our investigators searched out the correspondence and the comments did we find out what happened to your suggestions in the first place. Certainly this type of staff action must have a very dampening effect on you or anyone in a similar position. Commander WADSWORTH. Yes, sir. I believe it led to the attitude that suggestions were not really wanted. So, as a consequence, to the best of my knowledge, few, if any, suggestions to the Cold War Advisory Panel have emanated from Great Lakes in possibly a year's time. Senator THURMOND. I do not desire to embarrass the Navy, but we could cite three or four examples. I realize that we are still learning what we must do to fight communism in the cold war, and I trust that the Cold War Panel and related bureaus have a more responsible attitude today. Have you found recently a greater responsibility in the actions of the Cold War Panel? Commander WADSWORTH. It has not come to my attention; no, sir. Senator THURMOND. Recently there has been a change in the Cold War Panel Directors, and there has been some other emphasis placed on the processing of cold war ideas. Commander, to turn to your current assignment in the Great Lakes Naval Training Center, do you feel the programs in which you are engaged are progressing? SUSPENSION OF SEMINAR PARTICIPATION BY GREAT LAKES PERSONNEL Senator STENNIS. Let me interrupt you, if I may, right there, because I am going to have to go. We are going to run, according to our understanding, until around 1 o'clock, and reconvene at 2:30. Dr. Robert E. Beerstecher will be the next witness. Commander, I want to ask you some questions following up what I was talking about a while ago when time ran out. I was questioning you about the interference, restrictions or handicaps that you have been under, I noted then you said not in your official duties. Now, it is back to my time to question you again. Outside of your official duties, how have you been handicapped or restricted? Will you just go ahead and call them out? You were called here as a witness and you are testifying under oath, so I do not think there is any reason why you should hold back or that you want to hold back. But I want to emphasize the freedom with which you testify. Since I questioned you, Senator Thurmond has mentioned this film "Operation Abolition." I understand how that was put on the limited list, almost a restricted list. Now, what else do you have in mind? Just fill out the rest of that picture. Commander WADSWORTH. Insofar as the seminar activity was concerned before the public? Senator STENNIS. Yes. Commander WADSWORTH. Commander of naval training center was the information addressee on numerous pieces of correspondence which were written for or by the Chief of Information, and the general tenor of this correspondence was that, in the opinion of the Department of Defense, it is basically inappropriate for any members of the Defense Department to participate in public discussion on the subject of foreign policy, this being a field that should be reserved for the President. At about the same time commander, naval training center, and also commanding officer, service school command, received a letter from the Chief of Naval Personnel for Training cautioning them to use the utmost discretion in their own public utterances in respect to anticommunism and in permitting personnel under them to make such utterances. Additionally, the press coverage Senator STENNIS. Pardon me, that applied to your regular official duties, as well as to your extra duties, did it not? Commander WADSWORTH. No, sir. Senator STENNIS. It did not? Commander WADSWORTH. This applied only to public. Commander WADSWORTH. The press coverage given to the seminars by certain newspapers indicated that there was a definite tendency, however erroneous, to associate the seminar personnel with the John Birch Society, and some of this press coverage is a matter of official record in the publication originating from the Committee of the Judiciary, U.S. Senate, entitled, "The New Drive Against AntiCommunism Program," dated July 11, 1961. In view of these events and incidents, the Commander of the Naval Training Center felt it prudent for the personnel engaged in the seminars to suspend their activity until they received specific policy guidelines. Accordingly, he suggested via commanding officer, service school command, that the seminars be suspended at least temporarily until the material could be reviewed, and, if necessary, modified, so that no reasonable charge could be made that they dealt with matters of foreign policy, politics, or personalities. This suggestion was accepted. I believe that Commander, Naval Training Center, was using the best of judgment in making this decision. Senator STENNIS. What was the date of these incidents that you have related here about the first communication with reference to foreign policy, approximate date? Commander WADSWORTH. These were during the month of April 1961. Senator STENNIS. And they both came along together. Senator STENNIS. Is that rule still prevailing and are those seminars still in a suspended status? Commander WADSWORTH. Well, some attempt was made to revise the seminars along the lines indicated, but about the same time the concern over this whole question came to a head and so, rather than work at something perhaps to no avail, it was sort of set aside and it is still in that status. Senator STENNIS. What you gentlemen call a reevaluation or something along that line? Commander WADSWORTH. It is still reevaluating, I guess, Senator. NATURE OF SEMINARS IN WHICH GREAT LAKES PERSONNEL PARTICIPATED Senator STENNIS. Tell us something more about the nature of these seminars. Where were they held, and who were the sponsors of them? I just want to get a broad idea about it. Were they held down in the city or out in the country? Were they held by the PTA, or who were the sponsors? Commander WADSWORTH. Many of the seminars were sponsored by high schools, principally Catholic high schools. Senator STENNIS. Principally what? Commander WADSWORTH. Catholic high schools, because the Catholic Church has a very effective anticommunism program under its own auspices. Senator STENNIS. In what city, now, was this? Commander WADSWORTH. Oh, these were all throughout the Chicago area and the suburbs, extending over into Iowa, up to Minnesota, not Minnesota, but Wisconsin, and so on. Senator STENNIS. You mean at Great Lakes you are operating that far from your base, into Iowa? Commander WADSWORTH. Yes, sir. The seminar personnel, in order to fulfill a request, arranged their instructional duties so that it would permit them to take leave for this purpose, and they did it at their own expense. Additionally, they spoke before Legion groups and on occasion before the entire Milwaukee Police Department, men's clubs, church groups. I think that gives the pattern. GREAT LAKES PERSONNEL PARTICIPATED IN SEMINARS ON PERSONAL TIME AND EXPENSE Senator STENNIS. These you have been describing, then, were on off-duty time? Commander WADSWORTH. Yes, sir. Senator STENNIS. And at the personal expense of the people, the personnel themselves, is that right? Commander WADSWORTH. Well, it became the financial burden became a little bit unbearable and they were finally compelled to require travel expenses from the sponsors. Senator STENNIS. But it was nongovernmental money, anyway? Commander WADSWORTH. Yes, sir. SEMINARS STARTED IN 1960 Senator STENNIS. And how long a period of time had these seminars been conducted in this general pattern that you have just described? Commander WADSWORTH. They started in the summer of 1960 and proceeded through approximately May. Senator STENNIS. Is there anything else pertinent or any material point about them that I have not asked you that you wish to bring out or that should be brought out? Commander WADSWORTH. No, sir. I believe that the committee has a good idea of the seminar content, and, beyond that, I think you have the high points. REACTION TO THE SEMINARS Senator STENNIS. Were these seminars well received by the people, the listeners, the audiences? Commander WADSWORTH. Extremely well received, sir. Senator STENNIS. Did you go around with these personnel, at least some of the time? Commander WADSWORTH. I used to attend some of the local ones, where it was convenient, yes, sir, so that I had a good idea of what was going on, and could relate this to Senator STENNIS. Did any controversy arise at any of these seminars? Did they get mixed up in any local issues or controversies? Commander WADSWORTH. The only thing of that nature that arose was on, I believe, one occasion a letter was generated by a member of the audience to his Senator and this caused us to have to reply and justify as to the nature of the seminars. Senator STENNIS. But no real controversy about them? Commander WADSWORTH. No, sir, they never caused a riot or anything like that. Senator STENNIS. Is there any other incident? Did it cause any other incident that you can recall? Commander WADSWORTH. No, sir. USE OF "OPERATION ABOLITION” IN THE SEMINARS Senator STENNIS. At these seminars did you show this film "Operation Abolition"? Commander WADSWORTH. The film was shown; yes, sir. Commander WADSWORTH. The film was shown as a part of the seminar; yes, sir. Senator STENNIS. And other films as well? LENGTH OF GREAT LAKES SEMINARS It was about a total of 4 hours, 3 hours of which were speakers and 1 hour given over to the film. Senator STENNIS. You mean the seminars would last 4 hours? Senator STENNIS. I did not know they were that long. Is there any other point about them, because you have given a rather complete picture here, and I do not want to leave off anything just for the lack of a question. Commander WADSWORTH. No, sir. The only other point, I think, would be that, apart from being spontaneous, that no member of the seminar team has been or is affiliated with any anticommunism movement. They have remained aloof from all of this. COMPOSITION OF SEMINAR TEAM Senator STENNIS. Now, these men, the personnel of the group that you talk about that put on the seminars, were they enlisted men, officers, some of each, and where were they stationed? Commander WADSWORTH. They were all enlisted men. One of them was a chief petty officer and two others were first class petty officers, and they were all stationed at Great Lakes and were members of the Navy Leadership School instructional staff. Senator STENNIS. And how many were there? Commander WADSWORTH. There were originally three, one of whom was transferred during the normal course of events and was replaced by another, so there are Senator STENNIS. Oh, it was a team of three? sir. Senator STENNIS. And you went with them some of the time in the local areas? Commander WADSWORTH. Yes, sir. PERSONAL SACRIFICES OF SEMINAR TEAMS Senator STENNIS. Senator Thurmond, may I call on you. Will you excuse me now. I will be back when the subcommittee reconvenes. Senator THURMOND. Speaking about these seminars, do you feel that they were very helpful? Commander WADSWORTH. Very much so; yes, sir. I would say they are extremely helpful. They are extremely well received. They are much sought after. It does place a heavy burden upon the personnel who give the seminars, because it involved almost a full-time off-duty obligation in order to meet the commitments. Senator THURMOND. In other words, they did this when they were off duty? Commander WADSWORTH. Yes, sir. Senator THURMOND. It took a lot of their personal time to do this? Commander WADSWORTH. Yes, sir. Senator THURMOND. Were they volunteering their time without any compensation? |