Mr. HÉBERT. Thank you, Mr. Cohelan.

Mr. Chamberlain.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Secretary, I would like to start by asking what your policy was in terms of providing time for the reservist to report once it had been determined that one would be called.

Secretary RUNGE. Well, the people that were in units, Mr. Chamberlain, came on duty forthwith, and usually stayed in their home community, depending upon the circumstances and the shipment-I mean the movement schedule, for about 2 weeks, before being moved to another location.

Now, within that group of individuals in units, on application, there were delays granted-a 30-day delay or a 60-day delay in some cases-to enable the person to disengage from his civil occupation or whatever his other complications may have been.

For the reservists recalled as fillers, the general effort was to give these people about 30 days to report for active duty. Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Isn't that required by law?

Secretary RUNGE. Thirty days?

I think the statute says, with respect to units, that you will, whenever possible or whenever practicable, something of that nature that 30 days will be given from date of notice of call to the time that they come on active duty.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Well, did you try to do that?

Secretary RUNGE. Yes, sir.

I think, of the units called, that all of the units had 30 days to report for active duty, except the second group of Army Reserve units called to active duty, I think had 27 days.

Colonel HOLLINGSWORTH. That is right.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. I don't mean to belabor the point, Mr. Secretary, because there are other matters that I feel are more important I want to get on with.

However, I would like to make this observation. Of my own personal knowledge, I know of a number of servicemen, that were given much shorter periods than 30 days to report.

I remember one instance well, where a boy was ordered to report in 2 weeks. He was operating a business. He had his wife in the hospital, and all kind of other ramifications. And he came to me and he said, "What can be done about this," and I said, "I don't know, we will try."

And I "shot off" a telegram to inquire about it. And before the Army got around to act on it, he got other orders telling him to report in a week.

Now, when we got the thing straightened out, your people were considerate enough to give him a 30-day deferment.

But this didn't happen once in my area, Mr. Secretary. It happened many, many times, I would say probably from a dozen to two dozen times, that such matters came to my personal attention.

So

my observation is this. If in the future if you are to call these boys up, I certanly feel that all reasonable time should be made available to them.

Getting back to this 6-month program that Mr. Kowalski was talking with you about, I am still confused.

I understand what you have told us about calling your recruit in and his 4 months' training-basic, that is, that you give to everyone. And then some additional training.

But what happens to him after he has completed his 6 months? When did this program start?

Secretary RUNGE. Under the act of 1955.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. So we have some people that have been in on this 6-month training program that really have been in it for quite a period of years, is that right?

Secretary RUNGE. Yes, sir.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. That is what I would like to inquire about. So this boy goes back and reports home after his 6 months. And then he has his weekly training.

Secretary RUNGE. Yes, sir.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Can you that is what I would like to have you describe to me. Do they just go down and look at movies, or do the manual of arms-where they take a rifle apart and put it together? What is this training program? Not only for the first 6 months, but for the first year, the second year, and the third year.

What are your boys doing now that have been in this program since 1955?

Secretary RUNGE. I will try to develop this for you, Mr. Chamberlain.

The typical young man goes down to his National Guard or Reserve unit and makes application and if the unit has a vacancy within their strength-and we will assume that it does--the unit commander, or his personnel officer, looks at the young man, talks to him in terms of his interests and skills and aptitude-some may have some and some may not, in the sense of having any demonstrable skill or aptitude. Because some of these lads are 1712 years old, there may be no particular experience background.

The officer will attempt to relate the boy's interest in signing up in his unit to the requirements of his unit.

Let's assume that this is a transportation truck company. We need for the most part truckdrivers and assistant drivers, some mechanics, and some control people.

But he agrees that this boy will be a truckdriver. Or he may-let's assume that the lad has worked in a filling station part time. Maybe the officer will assume that he has some mechanical aptitude.

He then goes off for this training that I described to Mr. Kowalski. Depending upon what the unit commander has indicated, that in all likelihood the recruit can be best trained for and used for when he returns to the unit, the Army training center will attempt to give this MOS training. I am not suggesting that this works in a most effective fashion, because I am afraid it doesn't.

But the theory is that this man-let's assume, either a truckdriver or mechanic-after basic, will continue to be trained as a truckdriver or as a mechanic.

After 6 months, he returns to his hometown and back to his unit and reports to his company commander, and takes his spot in that unit that he has been trained for.

Now, you ask about what do they do after they come back, what is the training?

85066-62—No. 66- 5

There is a certain amount of input and a number of people going out all the time. But the services have established levels of training for these units depending upon their overall training efficiency ratings. And this is determined both by looking at them in their armory training and in summer training.

Let's assume that this unit is at the platoon level of training. The example is a transportation truck company, which will have three platoons and a headquarters.

They have vehicles to work with and they have tools and equip

ment.

The training in the armory period is a telescoped and concentrated sort of training of the type that you have on active duty.

Let's take a typical evening drill. We use some evening drills, and we use some weekend drills, and where we can work it out, a weekend drill is a more effective training period than 1 night a week. But we do both.

If it is a night training period, after the unit is formed and certain administrative detail is taken care of, there may well be instruction on weapons. And it may not be just the rifle, but it may be the heavy weapons that the unit carries the machineguns and the rockets.

There may be instruction-if this is a transportation unit-on map reading. And there may be instruction on controls that the motor sergeant and the platoon sergeants exercise to handle this unit on a convoy march, or during an actual operational situation.

Some of the training may be in the other related military skills. Then let's assume that there have been a series of such weekly drills, and then there is a weekend drill.

This unit, the transportation truck company, will probably roll out all of its vehicles. And this varies. But the unit that I am thinking of, that I had in my command, was fully equipped.

In other words, if the soldier is a truckdriver, he is driving a truck. And they will take an extended 3- or 4-hour motor march with this unit. They may go into a bivouac situation.

It is a matter of performing in training all of the things they perform when in actual operations.

And I am suggesting to you, Mr. Chamberlain, that these units and the one that I have had experience with-the 32d Division now at Fort Lewis-that these units were very well trained and that they knew how to perform their function. And they did it in armory and summer training.

Now, assume this man stays in the unit. He may stay generally for 6 years.

During this time, if the man has aptitude, he will probably become at least a squad leader, with a group of people and a certain number of vehicles under his command. He may even get to the point of being a platoon sergeant, in which he is the second in command of the platoon.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Now how long does that take?

Secretary RUNGE. You mean to get up to this point?

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Yes; to earn a promotion in "this man's Army." Secretary RUNGE. Well, it depends on the person and whether there are the vacancies in the unit.

If you have a unit with a lot of ratings in it, it is easier. In the typical situation I would say that the man would be probably an E-4 during the first 3 years.

I would guess that during-if he stays with the unit 6 or 9 years-by that point, given the turnover, he would be an E-5 or E-6.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Well, the point I am getting at is: Do you have kind of a master plan that you are developing over this 712-year period?

Like the board of education will have a curriculum for their students that are going through school.

Secretary RUNGE. Yes, sir.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. So that when this fellow gets to the other end, he has done something more than to go down and hang out at the armory one night a week and 2 weeks in the summer camp.

Secretary RUNGE. Mr. Chamberlain, we keep two kinds of record. We keep them on the individual following his basic 6-month training, such additional training that he gets-in other words, a record is kept on the individual.

And secondly, we have overall ratings for the platoons and the companies, so that we know on this basis where we stand with the unit, and how many of these people-the individuals concerned are qualified as individuals.

And then out of the total number qualified, you determine the rating of the unit. And then you watch the unit in operation.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Does an individual in this unit ever get to the point in his proficiency where he is comparable to the boy that has had 2 years of active duty?

Secretary RUNGE. Yes, I think he does.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. At what point would that be?

Secretary RUNGE. This is a little difficult to estimate.

But I would say this. The man who has had the 6-months' training and stays with his unit through a 3-year period I would say is roughly comparable to the same man in the same skill who comes off 2 years of active duty.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Now, my time is running out. I just want to hurry on.

First, one of the things I would like to ask that you supply for the record, or for me particularly, is a bit more historical information on your draft calls, as you mentioned on page 12.

You have given us the last 12 months. I would like to have you give a little more on the pattern of this. What has the draft call been for the last 3, 4, or 5 years?

Secretary RUNGE. Yes.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. So that I can compare it with that.

Secretary RUNGE. Yes.

(The information requested appears later in the record.)

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Now, let's go back to the discussion that we were having about the Navy when Mr. Cohelan was questioning here, and I was grateful for his yielding.

I thought we might clear that up at this particular time. It is my understanding that when we were considering a supplemental appropriation for the Navy here not too long ago, the Navy had requested some $51 million for training purposes, and this was cut back by the

Comptroller in the Department of Defense who refused to release the funds, and therefore the Navy couldn't go ahead with their training at the level that they wanted to train, and at a time when the President of the United States was telling us we had an emergency situation. Now, I would like to have you answer that.

Secretary RUNGE. Mr. Chamberlain, the specific incident that you speak of the $49 or the $51 million item I am not at this point acquainted with, and I can't respond to that question.

I will find out in terms of those figures exactly what we are talking about.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Fine. Thank you. Then I would appreciate it if you will call that to my attention when you have that information. (The following information was subsequently submitted:)

RESERVE PERSONNEL, NAVY, FISCAL YEAR 1962

The fiscal year 1962 funding program for the appropriation "Reserve personnel, Navy" provides for total obligations of $83.0 million of the $84.6 million appropriated, with $1.6 million indicated as a reserve for reprograming. This information was presented to Congress at the time the fiscal year 1963 budget was submitted.

The reserve for reprograming was established by the Secretary of Defense during detailed review of the fiscal year 1963 budget estimate when a review of fiscal year 1962 programing was conducted and is composed of the following three items:

1. Elimination of the enlisted critical skills program 1.

Millions $0.1

2. Savings resulting from the ordering to active duty of personnel from the Navy Reserves__

3. Retained the school program at the previously approved level___. Total

.5

1.0 1.6

1 This has been deferred until fiscal year 1963 and the funds to support the program will be made available if required.

In regard to the postponement of one paid drill in the Navy Reserve from the first half to the second half of the fiscal year, funds for the planned number of paid drills were provided in the first half of the year. However, due to an unplanned increase in the number of personnel attending active duty for training and a slightly higher personnel strength than planned, the Navy postponed the accomplishment of one paid drill until the second half of the fiscal year. Funds have been provided for this drill in the second half of the year. Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Now, Mr. Secretary, you have given us quite a broad-brush treatment of your overall responsibility.

Secretary RUNGE. Yes, sir.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. I would like to ask what responsibilities, if any, you have in connection with the Coast Guard Reserve?

Secretary RUNGE. I do not have responsibilities for the Coast Guard Reserve, except as our general policies apply to all of the uniformed

services.

In terms of the year-to-year training program within the Coast Guard, I am not responsible.

This, as you know

Mr. HÉBERT. May I interrupt there, Mr. Chamberlain?

The Coast Guard is not under the jurisdiction of the Department

of Defense.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. I understand, Mr. Chairman, but here I am amazed to have the Secretary tell me what he said, that he has no broad responsibility for the Coast Guard Reserve.