Mr. BROOKS. Fine.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Blandford, will you get H. R. 2847, the bill that was introduced by Mr. Hinshaw, and let's get the opinion of General Hershey on that deferment. I believe that is both deferment and exemption, together. It works both ways. Let's see what he has to say in regard to that.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Well, General Hershey, a bill introduced by Congressman Hinshaw

The CHAIRMAN. Are you familiar with it?

General HERSHEY. Yes, sir. I haven't studied it, but I have read it. I am willing to give you my personal first impression.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Give us your first impression, General. That is always the best impression.

General HERSHEY. I am disturbed by the creation of a separate board which governs the duties of American citizens and is not responsible for providing the defense of this country. And, therefore, I am disturbed that if the Congress does not feel that it wants to approach deferment of certain people-and there are many difficulties that the Congress know so much better than I do on why it is hard to lay down rules.

But having let the man be inducted, we now believe that we can cure the faults of induction by creating a Commission which excuses him from the Armed Forces after he has been inducted, rather than attack it at the source and try to find out whether he ought to be inducted or not.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right. And under the Hinshaw bill, he would go in and serve for 6 months

Mr. BLANDFORD. Eighty-nine days.

The CHAIRMAN. Or 89 days. Just enough not to be a veteran. And then some Commission would determine whether or not he should be released on account of his educational training as a scientist.

I think the point that you suggested is very good in regard to that. Mr. KILDAY. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. KILDAY. Mr. Hinshaw has spoken to me about this proposed amendment. But I have not read it. I don't know just how he provides for it. I know of his concern to protect persons who are pursuing higher-well, courses of study and courses of higher study in science.

From what you have said, he apparently provides for a board after they have gone into the services.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right.

Mr. KILDAY. The services would eliminate them, and you wouldn't support that.

What would be your views that instead of a board of that kind it were a board on a national basis prior to induction, or continued deferments, or something of that kind?

General HERSHEY. Well, if the board was like the Board which the Congress created on physicians and dentists, that made them an advisory board, where we had every bit of the benefit of their advice, but when it came to the decision that the same board that took other mothers' sons decided whether they stay or not, I would obviously have to support it because I happen to be both a supporter and an advocate of what the Congress did concerning specialists.

Mr. KILDAY. I have heard from Mr. Hinshaw. He is concerned, for instance, about the young man who is registered in his hometown, maybe in South Carolina, Virginia, or Texas, and is attending MIT, for instance, or California Technical or some place of that kind, so that he remains vulnerable to induction in his hometown when he is not actually present and where they are not thoroughly informed, perhaps, on the technical and scientific nature of his studies.

If this board were comparable to the one on doctors, you think it could be worked out?

General HERSHEY. Well, I think it so much that I have spent some time during the past year in establishing it, now I think I can say a majority of the States-because there are some complications on the small State because some States are so small that they hardly justify it, but we have established advisory committees in the scientific and professional fields in a great many of our populous States. We are now in the process of establishing a great many more. The student is not too much involved because student deferments have not been too hard to come by.

On the other hand, when the man goes out into industry and begins to try to get his internship or his residency, if you will, as an engineer, that is where the problem has been. And we have been trying to establish these committees as an experiment to see what the result has been.

Now it works both ways. Sometimes they don't defer as well as the boards do.

Mr. KILDAY. I understand, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Hinshaw will be heerd.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. KILDAY. That is all I had.

The CHAIRMAN. I didn't want to ask the General to come back to get the comment from Mr. Hinshaw.

Mr. KILDAY. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. But I do think that the proper way to do with it is at the very beginning, deal with the question of deferment instead. of induction and then a discharge through some kind of process.

Because you can't have two heads granting-running the Selective Service System.

Mr. DURHAM. Mr. Chairman, at that point. I think, of course, General Hershey's idea on this thing: With the doctors it is an entirely different problem than what you have to do with here, because you are starting out with the students. You have to assess it on the basis of his scholastic rating. With a doctor you know pretty well what he does. He is already in the field of science and you can evaluate it. But to set up a commission to evaluate it at 17 years of age is an entirely different matter. It is very difficult.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Mr. Chairman, may I make one statement in connection with Mr. Hinshaw's proposal. There is one virtue in it that I think General Hershey should comment on, and that is when these men are inducted or do enlist, that even though their obligation to serve is suspended, they are still members of the Reserve and, therefore, they do have the Reserve obligation imposed upon them, which they would not have imposed upon them if they were not inducted in the first place. I mean that is one place.

The CHAIRMAN. The trouble with that is that every student will try to get under that tent. They will try to get in that classification. Then you would have a boy who only has 89 days service and then he goes in the Reserve.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. And he is a reservist. It wouldn't be fair to others who are so unfortunate not to possess that type of education. We have to deal with all of them.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. The strength of Selective Service is its uniformity. It applies to everybody equally and alike. As long as we keep that as the fundamental basis, we are on sound ground.

Mr. BLANDFORD. I was merely mentioning

Mr. RIVERS. Mr. Chairman

Mr. GAVIN. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir, Mr. Gavin.

Mr. GAVIN. These State advisory groups that you are now experimenting with: Who do they work with, the State board of appeals? General HERSHEY. Well, they might very well work with the local board. In other words, if a boy wants to have their opinion on him, we are trying to let them make that possible. And he could apply for it before the local board even made their basic decision.

But, again, I want to be very clear-and I know the committee knows that I have never countenanced anyone telling a local board what to do, not even a director.

Mr. GAVIN. No.

General HERSHEY. But they can give them advice and say, "This man has all of these technical qualifications." If it looks valid, the board accepts it. If they don't, obviously the board puts him in 1-A. Then the boy has a right to appeal to the State appeal board and even to the National Appeal Board if there is any difference of opinion. Or, if the State director or National Director, as we many times do, appeal it anyway. He gets about three runs for the same price. The CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Gavin. Mr. RIVERS. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rivers.

Mr. RIVERS. General, on one occasion your service had some figures compiled on the percentage of classifications statewide and nationally. Some States had 67 percent classifications. I won't mention the amount. Some of them had 97 percent. Do you still have those figures or have you kept them up to date?

General HERSHEY. Yes; I have in front of me now. Of course, at the time I had some difficulties with my 60 percent we were just engaging in the Korean affair. We had to induct rather than classify. But at the moment, the United States, including the Territories, was about 96.2. As I look down the list here, on the first page, I see none that are not above 90.

Mr. RIVERS. Are any below 90, nationwide?

General HERSHEY. Well, I think that Guam is less than 90. Guam has a very special problem. Guam has the problem in which she has all the time 20 or 30 volunteers for each man that we are going to induct.

Mr. RIVERS. Well, your answer to my question, then, is there has been a definite improvement

General HERSHEY. Eighty-three is Guam. But there is no other one below 90.

Mr. RIVERS. I see. I am glad to hear that

General HERSHEY. And we have several 99's.

The CHAIRMAN. General Devereux.

Mr. DEVEREUX. Reference has been made to the possibility of exempting people who enlist in the National Guard before they are subject to the draft.

Now is your thinking possibly that that should apply to the Organized Reserves as well?

General HERSHEY. That is right.

Mr. DEVEREUX. And

General HERSHEY. Of course, there are several things involved in that. One is that the man who enlists and stays in until he is 26Mr. DEVEREUX. Stays in until he is 26

General HERSHEY. And has satisfactory behavior. To me, the Reserves are the Reserves. On the other hand, I want to be quite sure that everybody understands me, that when we have less than 48 drill periods per year. I am not quite so convinced that people should be deferred to participate.

Mr. DEVEREUx. Well, your length, then, of time would be until he is 26 years of age?

General HERSHEY. That is right.

Mr. DEVEREUX. And not necessarily maybe a 2-year enlistment, 4-year enlistment, or whatnot?

General HERSHEY. No. He should stay in the Reserves the same. length of time you require of other people. And the reason I didn't. object to 26 was that I figured if he got in before he was 18%1⁄2 he would have approximately 8 years in, which was what everybody else was getting, and that was all right with me.

Mr. DEVEREUX. Yes, sir. I think that is the point we should take into consideration when we deliberate on that.

Mr. WINSTEAD. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Winstead.

Mr. WINSTEAD. General Hershey, I believe they stated there were 44,000 deferred for agriculture.

The CHAIRMAN. That is right.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is correct.

General HERSHEY. I think that is correct.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Can you break those down? Do you have them broken down by States there?

General HERSHEY. I do.

Mr. BLANDFORD. I wonder if you could give us some of those figures. General HERSHEY. Well, it would make it much easier if you ask me-I wouldn't be picking the State if you asked me. Because I am very sensitive. Because they are all my children.

[Laughter.]

Mr. WINSTEAD. Take Mississippi and New York, for instance.
General HERSHEY. That is right.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. Include Pennsylvania. I was gonig to ask the very same question as my colleague.

General HERSHEY. Well, let me see. Mississippi, 147.

Mr. WINSTEAD. One hundred and forty-seven deferred?
General HERSHEY. That is right.

Mr. WINSTEAD. Do you have that in percentages?

General HERSHEY. Now we will move to New York. We have New York divided into two parts, you know: New York City and New York State.

Mr. WINSTEAD. How many do you have in New York City?

General HERSHEY. New York City has 66 and New York State has-wait a minute. I am on the wrong line. Pardon me. It is 28 in New York City and 6,687 upstate.

Mr. WINSTEAD. 6,687?

General HERSHEY. Right.

Mr. WINSTEAD. Twenty-eight in New York City.

General HERSHEY. Now, did somebody want Pennsylvania?
Mr. WINSTEAD. Pennsylvania, yes.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. Yes.

General HERSHEY. Pennsylvania has 5,219.

Mr. WINSTEAD. What about North Carolina?

General HERSHEY. North Carolina-this is rather fine print so I I am having a little difficulty here-156.

Mr. WINSTEAD. 156.

Mr. KILDAY. Put in Texas.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. General, would those eyes of your pick out the percentage?

General HERSHEY. Yes; I can give you the percentage. That is on another sheet.

Mr. SHORT. That is more accurate because of the variance in population.

General HERSHEY. Yes. The only trouble with the percentages is that they are all so small that they don't mean much. Whether it is one-tenth or two-tenths-that is the best I can do, outside of 1 or 2 States. However, I will give you the percentages.

Mr. WINSTEAD. Pardon me, is that the population of farmers? General HERSHEY. No; it is the relation of the men deferred to the total registrants, not population but total registered.

Mr. WINSTEAD. All right, sir.

General HERSHEY. Mississippi is one-tenth of 1 percent.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. How about Oklahoma?

General HERSHEY. Well

Mr. BATES. How about it?

General HERSHEY. Which way shall I approach that?

Mr. WINSTEAD. Show us Pennsylvania and New York.

General HERSHEY. Pennsylvania is one-tenth of 1 percent-wait a minute, five-tenths.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, put it in the record and all of them can read it, General.

General HERSHEY. Fine.

Mr. WINSTEAD. Of all States.

General HERSHEY. All States.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions of the General?

Mr. SHORT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Short.

Mr. SHORT. General, I think the important thing or the thing that disturbs Mr. Hinshaw and some of the others is that we should be rather careful and cautious, I think, in trying to select men with particular skills or talents, to educate them in order that we won't have

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