would be no trouble to get thousands of signatures to such a statement because they fail to actually give these people, whose support they seek, the facts as to what such legislation will or will not do.

In the past year in particular I have talked to many such groups and discussed personally outside of the meeting the issues involved in this bill, and I say to you truthfully that a vast preponderance of these good men and women, who are deeply interested in community progress and welfare, have no interest in this bill whatsoever. Ther do not understand it and do not care to understand it, and many of them are in the attitude of resenting the attempt on the part of a very small minority to dictate to them that which they can or cannot see, and this particularly applies to the average housewife who gives all of her time to her family and prefers to decide what she wants to see by reading the newspaper descriptions, advertising and other publicity on the attractions shown at her local theater. And by the same token I say that the matter of what a child or minor should see at the theater is a matter for the parents themselves to decide. All of you gentlemen of course know that if the theaters of this country were to show only that which was for a child mind, they would go out of business rapidly.

I have always had the complete and wholehearted cooperation of all the public groups in the towns down in Mississippi where I operated theaters, and we have other period of years run programs selected because of their suitability for children. This was under the auspices of the public groups. And as proof of this I am submitting objections to this bill from every organized group in the little town of Columbus, Mississippi, and this is typical of what I could offer to this committee from hundreds of other communities. So it seems to me that the efforts of the very few public groups, who are proponents of this bill, will simmer down to a question in the minds of this committee as to just how many millions these groups are speaking for.

The proponents of this bill say this is not an attempt at direct censorship, yet every argument they have put forth has tended to show that it is a distinct effort at indirect censorship by an organized minority group. One of the proponents of this bill who says she speaks for a public group said to this committee in answering questions: "Give us this law and we'll say what can or cannot be shown in the theaters." That is a matter of record. So if they are not seeking arbitrary censorship powers, what are they seeking? Because they surely could not be interested in the commercial operation of this industry, such as the buying and selling of films between the distributor and the exhibitor.

The exhibitor proponents of this bill, who are a very small minority of this industry, have not established a single thing that would justify the enactment of this legislation.

And

I submit to this committee that the motion picture industry yields to no person or no group of persons as to their patriotism and as to their efforts and cooperation in matters of public welfare, and I for one am proud of the small part I am permitted to play in it. I cannot for the life of me comprehend any sincerity of purpose on the part of the exhibitor proponents of this bill, who are a part of this industry, when they have inspired and propaganidzed public groups on the outside of this industry, who do not understand its mechanics and do not care about its business operation, and who readily admit that they do not understand it, but who insist on regulating it.

Many fine outstanding men, independent exhibitors who have brick and mortar investments in their theaters and who are outstanding citizens of their communities have appeared or are going to come before this committee in the next few days in opposition to this bill. They are from widely scattered geographical locations and are men of integrity who understand the mechanics of this industry. They are opposing this bill even as I because it jeopardizes their investment, and they will cover many phases that, because of the time required I am necessarily omitting from my discussion.

I say to you that this industry as a whole at the present time is on uneasy feet. No one knows how to plan for the future. We never know at what moment our activities will be restricted by legislation or governmental intervention. Large numbers of lawsuits are in the process of litigation all over the country. Some are Government suits, a lot are private suits. All of you are already acquainted with the issues in the main Government suit against this industry which have been presented by various witnesses. This suit is being rapidly developed and goes to trial June 3. Is it not reasonable to say that by this process the courts of. this land will determine which ones among us are law violators and which are not? This proposed legislation the so-called Neely block-booking bill-would only tend to confuse these trials, while at the same time it would be working a serious injustice on an industry that does not deserve it.

At a time like this, when all the world seems to be at each other's throats, a time when-though I hope it may never come-we of this country may be involved, a time when all business should be encouraged to continue its operations along normal lines for the public welfare and the peace of mind of its people, this time above all times we should not be further harassed by laws that are unworkable and destructive, so I appeal to you in conclusion to give this bill most earnest consideration, to ascertain the facts for yourselves, and not be blinded by propagandists, because I know whereof I speak when I say to you that it will completely revolutionize the business methods of an industry that has grown into one of the largest industries in America today through these methods of operations which the proponents of this bill would now destroy.

My discussion has been rather lengthy. However, it was necessary because of the many various angles that had to be discussed. I want to express my appreciation of your tolerance and kind attention to what I have had to say, and to ask the chairman's permission to offer for the record several letters from exhibitor leaders who are opposed to this bill and were unable to appear here in person. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.

The CHAIRMAN. The documents you offered for inclusion in the record will be checked over, Mr. Kuykendall, by the committee. Mr. KUYKENDALL. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McGranery.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Mr. Kuykendall, you spoke about the PatmanRobinson Act

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes.

Mr. MCGRANERY. What is the analogy between this Neely bill and that bill?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. It is a price restrictive measure; it has something that regulates prices in it.

Mr. MCGRANERY. I am just wondering what the analogy is. Mr. KUYKENDALL. I would not attempt to give you an intelligent analysis of it, Mr. McGranery; I am not a lawyer and you could

tear me up.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Well, I am just wondering why you referred to it.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I mean that it is a comparable kind of price legislation; it has to do with the regulation of business.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Are you familiar with it?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I would not say that I have made any legal analysis of it; but I have read it to some extent.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Now, you are president of the Motion Picture Theater Owners of America?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes.

Mr. MCGRANERY. How is that organization made up?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. It is made up of local units, I mean local and State organizations, and these local and State organizations themselves select the individual exhibitors who are to be their representatives on the national board of directors, and from that national board of directors are elected five or six members to make up the executive committee of seven from different sections of the country. The whole board of directors consists of about 28.

Mr. MCGRANERY. The board consists of about 28?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes.

Mr. McGRANERY. Of which not more than seven or eight comprise the actual executive committee?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. No; I would not say that.

Mr. MCGRANERY. I understood you to say it brought the executive committee down to about seven or eight.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I just tried to make an explanation by saying that the M. P. T. O. A. organization is made up of the active member organizations, the representatives from each local unit that belongs to the national organization, makes up the board of directors of national organization, those are elected by the local units. And, in turn the directors from each section of the country select the man, who is a director from one of these organizations, who is to be on the executive committee. In other words, the organization is so organized so that no one person or no one group has authority to say what any other one group shall do. I just want my statement to show that the local organization retain their local autonomy, elect their own representative on the national board and that by retaining their local autonomy no one tells them what they are to do with respect to any matter; they act for themselves.

Mr. McGRANERY. There are only two salaried officers of your organization?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. That is correct.

Mr. McGRANERY. You and who else?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. The office force, which is my secretary.

Mr. McGRANERY. The secretary?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Are you the only person who is on a full time salaried job?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes; the only officer.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Do you own any theaters?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes; I own five.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Five?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes, sir; I own a full interest in three and a part interest in two others.

Mr. MCGRANERY. And those theaters are all in Mississippi?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes.

Mr. McGRANERY. You are not an affiliate, you say, with the producer-exhibitor outfit?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Not my theaters. You are referring to theaters being operated by a chain of an independent theater owner?

Mr. MCGRANERY. Well, Mr. Lightman is connected with Paramount, is he not?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I think he has part ownership in a theater with Paramount, in Tennessee.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Well, that is a producer-distributor outfit? Mr. KUYKENDALL. But he has many individual theaters of his own and the Paramount affiliation is just in certain theaters.

Mr. McGRANERY. I see.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes.

You mentioned Mr. Walker.

Mr. McGRANERY. I have a very high regard for him. He operate some theaters in Pennsylvania.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes.

Mr. MCGRANERY. He is also affiliated with Paramount?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. McGRANERY. You do not know?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I could not say what his set-up is.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Also, Mr. Wolfson is one of the directors and vice president of your organization?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. He is a vice president, but he has no vote on the board of directors.

Mr. MCGRANERY. But is he an independent exhibitor?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I would say so.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Connected with the producer?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I would not say that he is; I would say he is operating an independent circuit of theaters in Miami.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Is he associated with the Paramount theater? Mr. KUYKENDALL. He is an independent exhibitor; not connected with Paramount.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Well, he is connected, as a matter of fact, he is named as one of the defendants by the Government in the pending case, is he not?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. As a defendant in a lawsuit, that would probably be so. There are many such defendants all over the country.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Mr. Brylawski.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Mr. A. Julian Brylawski.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Is he associated with you?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Vice president, just the same as Mr. Wolfson. Mr. MCGRANERY. Mr. Mitchell Wolfson; what is his connection

with the industry? How is he associated with the industry?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. He owns some theaters, in Miami as you know. Mr. MCGRANERY. Now, Joseph Bernhard is a vice president?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. No; on the board of directors.

Mr. MCGRANERY. On the board of directors?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Whom is he associated with?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. He is associated with the Warner theaters circuit as general manager. And, I want to clear up your mind on that. Remember that he is on the board of directors representing an affiliated theater circuit, yet as an affiliated member he is only one out of every six members on the board.

Mr. McGRANERY. That is right.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I made that clear in my statement.

Mr. McGRANERY. And, Mr. Bernard-do you know what his position is with the Warners?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Sir?

Mr. McGRANERY. Do you know what his position is with the Warner Brothers?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. His position?

Mr. MCGRANERY. Yes.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. He is in charge of theater operations, I believe, of Warner Bros. Theater Circuit.

Mr. McGRANERY. Mr. E. M. Fay.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Ed Fay?

Mr. MCGRANERY. Yes.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I am not sure that I know anything about his affiliations.

Mr. McGRANERY. He is affiliated with your organization?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. With my organization; yes.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Now, do you know whether he is affiliated with Paramount?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I do not know.

Mr. McGRANERY. You do not know whether he is or not?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. I would not think he was.

Frank Walker as a partner.

He is affiliated with

Mr. MCGRANERY. Now, do you know Mr. Schiller?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Ed Schiller?

Mr. McGRANERY. Yes.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Very well.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Whom is he affiliated with?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. He used to be in active charge of Loew's theaters, the theater affiliation of Metro.

Mr. McGRANERY. Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. That is right.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Spyros Skouras.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. General manager of Fox West Coast Theaters. Mr. McGRANERY. Fox West Coast?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Yes.

Mr. MCGRANERY. Maj. L. E. Thompson.

Mr. KUYKENDALL. Who?

Mr. MCGRANERY. Maj. L. E. Thompson; whom is he affiliated with?

Mr. KUYKENDALL. RKO Theaters; RKO Theater Circuit. He is also the one affiliated circuit representative out of each six directors on the board as I explained in the beginning of my statement. I made that very plain there that we had five affiliated theater circuit owners on the board.

Mr. McGRANERY. Now, Mr. L. C. Griffith.