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Mr. PATTON. Yes, sir.

Senator HOLLAND. Whether they want it or not?

Mr. PATTON. I do not know of any farmer who does not want 100 percent of parity income.

Senator HOLLAND. Did you realize that in some of the industries, due to economies of production and development of new processed products, that a high degree of prosperity exists, notwithstanding the fact that there have been no sales at anything like parity for many years?

Mr. PATTON. All I could say is that if that counts in the family farmers, then probably the parity price formula needs revision. Obviously it is going to need revision from time to time, I would say both up and down, to take in all the factors.

Senator HOLLAND. Of course, the difference
Mr. PATTON. However, I do-

Senator HOLLAND. The difference between some of these industries and others is that they have gone all out to help themselves. The citrus industry, for instance, by a development of canning processes and concentrating processes and very much wider marketing distribution, has greatly enlarged its production and has greatly expanded its markets and has greatly increased its prosperity, although there has been only one time in recent years when Florida citrus has sold at as high as 70 percent of parity, and generally speaking it has been selling at about 50 percent of parity.

Do you not think there is value in that kind of organization effort and that kind of development of markets by agricultural producers who are trying to solve their own problems?"

Mr. PATTON. Certainly. And our organization has probably sponsored and developed as many cooperatives as any organization in the United States. We have one of the largest grain marketing cooperatives, as you know, Senator Young, in the United States. We have very large farm supply cooperatives. So we believe thoroughly in the principle of self-help. But beyond that, we believe that the citizens as such should do those things which they are themselves capable of doing for themselves, and then when there are things that they cannot do for themselves, that they use cooperatives, community organization, State organizations, and finally, if they cannot meet it, as they cannot in some instances, on any other basis, they use the Federal Government.

And I happen to know that the fruit growers have used the Federal Government at times, on buying programs and getting tariffs fixed up, and a number of other devices, and I am all for the self-help, and I congratulate those who have done an efficient job. But I am afraid that in some instances the family farmer has not sat at the head table of a corporate-type of organization in some instances.

Senator HOLLAND. Now to come to the next question, you recognize, of course, that there are many fine organizations representing citrus growers, as for instance the California Fruit Growers Exchange and the MOD in California, and the Florida Citrus Exchange and the Florida Citrus Mutual, and other similar organizations in Texas and others in California and Florida which I haven't mentioned.

Mr. PATTON. Yes, sir.

Senator HOLLAND. Do you know any one of them which is asking for price support, much less price support at 100 percent?

Mr. PATTON. No; I do not.

Senator HOLLAND. Do you not think that they are well able to speak the wishes of the growers who produce those commodities?

Mr. PATTON. Yes. But as a general farm organization, we also have a right to offer our opinion, sir.

Senator HOLLAND. And yet you are not represented, I believe you have said, in Florida and California and Arizona, where the principal citrus production is?

Mr. PATTON. That is right. We have some members, but we do not have an organization.

Senator HOLLAND. All right. Now, with reference to the apple growers' organizations, without attempting to give the names in the record, apples and pears and cherries and canned peaches and prunes and grapes and raisins, and the tree nuts, pecans and the like, you know of course, that there are fine organizations representing all of those industries.

Mr. PATTON. As a matter of fact, there is a commodity organization for practically every commodity produced.

Senator HOLLAND. All right. Do you know of any one of the responsible groups that represent the growers of any of that wide range of commodities who is asking for 100 percent price supports or

any

Mr. PATTON. Not at this moment, but I remember very well a short time ago, 2 or 3 years ago-maybe it was 4-when I had more calls in 1 day from the prune growers than I could take, asking us to get in and get a Government-purchase program put in to pull their prices up, and I have seen that same thing happen over the years in a number of other commodities.

My point is that they do seek to use the devices of Government from time to time to see that their price comes up.

Senator HOLLAND. You recognize the fact, of course, that they are American citizens and that their States are part of the American Nation?

Mr. PATTON. And I support their request, Senator.

Senator HOLLAND (continuing). And that when there is a surplus in any crop, a crop surplus that is needed by school children, for instance, that there is a legitimate right to have some

Mr. PATTON. To support it.

Senator HOLLAND. To have some of that product

Mr. PATTON. My point is that the point that they have not asked for Federal help, and have not used the devices of Government, to me is not accurate.

Senator HOLLAND. My point was, Did you know of any of them that had asked for price supports?

Mr. PATTON. Not at that point, but I will get anything that they will be asking.

Senator HOLLAND. You will supply for the record

Mr. PATTON. As a matter of fact, they have a price-support device whenever they use any of these products in school lunches.

Senator HOLLAND. If you will supply for the record the name of any of these responsible organizations in the fields that I have mentioned who is asking for a price support, much less a 100 percent price support, I will appreciate it.

Mr. PATTON. If there is such, I will.

Senator HOLLAND. All right. Now let us come to the poultry producers.

Do you know of any organization there that is asking for inclusion in your program?

Mr. PATTON. We have quite a substantial number of poultry producers who have certainly been asking for 100 percent of parity. We have quite a nice organization in Utah. We have quite a few in Washington.

Senator HOLLAND. Do you know of any commodity organization, though, representing the poultry producers who is joining in your request, the National Farmers Union?

Mr. PATTON. We have not sought to have them join or they have not sought to join us.

Senator HOLLAND. If you will supply for the record the name of any responsible commodity organization in the field of poultry or egg production that is supporting your program, I would appreciate it. Now with reference to livestock, do you know of any State cattlemen's organization that is supporting your program?

Mr. PATTON. I do not offhand.

Senator HOLLAND. Do you know that the national

Mr. PATTON. I know that there is quite a division in some of the State organizations as to whether cattle should be supported, because I sat in on one of them.

Senator HOLLAND. Quite true. But after all, we generally speak of majority opinion in this Nation

Mr. PATTON. We do not pretend to try to represent commodity groups as such. We are a general farm organization and we try to deal in general policies and not the mechanics of specific commodities.

We feel that commodity organizations are equipped to deal with technical matters and with the technical problems of a given commodity group, rather than a farm organization.

Senator HOLLAND. And yet I notice on page 8 of your statement. you specifically require that in the case of poultry and eggs and livestock products sold in 1955

Mr. PATTON. Yes, sir.

Senator HOLLAND. Not just in 1956 and in futuro, but for the last year, that they should be brought in under this 100 percent of parity program?

Mr. PATTON. That a production payment be made to them. As a matter of general policy, to count them in on the prosperity that this country is enjoying.

Senator HOLLAND. In other words, you are asking them in, whether their State livestock organizations want to be included or not?

Mr. PATTON. Well, I think we ought to clear the record a little here, because I am not at all sure that any organization represents all of its members, including my own. I have differences of opinion, obviously. The best we can do is represent a majority of our members, and that is all we are trying to do here. We are not trying to represent anyone else, and they have just as much right as we do to come here and make whatever recommendations they wish. These are ours.

Senator HOLLAND. Now, if you can supply for the record the name of any livestock organization that supports your program, I would appreciate it.

Senator HUMPHREY. May I ask a question here?

in

Senator HOLLAND. Later. Please let me conclude; I have just come

Senator HUMPHREY. Senator, I just wanted to learn whether you meant a trade organization or whether you meant a particular group, such as the Iowa farmers.

Senator HOLLAND. Any organization that speaks for the livestock industry. We have a State cattlemen's association.

Mr. PATTON. That is right.

Senator HOLLAND. I think every State where cattle are produced has a State cattlemen's association. There is a national association as well. Maybe there are some of those that are asking to be joined in this extravagant program, but I have not heard of any such. And in the course of the hearing, which I attended only in part, I heard quite a number of representatives of cattle associations protesting vigorously against inclusion in any support-price program.

Senator HUMPHREY. Senator

Senator HOLLAND. So that what I am asking the witness is in support of his program here, in which he not only asks that livestock be included in the future, but also requests that 100 percent of parity be included for 1955-I am asking him, if he can, to supply the name of any reputable livestock organization that supports either part of that program, either the future part or the past, because I think that it is fair to have them have at least a word to say for this record about whether they believe in this very far-reaching and what I think is a very extravagant program.

Mr. PATTON. We have members of the Farmers Union who belong to the livestock growers' associations, to poultry growers' associations, to fruit growers' associations, apple growers' associations, dairy associations, National Federation of Milk Producers, and through some of the cooperatives in other cooperative associations and so on. They are members of both, which is not an uncommon thing.

Senator HOLLAND. If they have not been able, however, to impress their request upon their organizations and to get their organizations to join, it is at least a fair inference that they are in a decided minority in the membership in those commodity representative groups, would you not say?

Mr. PATTON. I would not say how decided the minority is, but obviously the action has not been taken, unless there is a record of it.

Senator HOLLAND. Then it is quite obvious, is it not, that your request is a minority request, that the best claim for it is that it is a minority request from producers of a large part of the agricultural production of the Nation?

Mr. PATTON. I think it is almost universally true that anything that is forward looking and moves out ahead usually moves with a minority, and the job is finally to convince the majority. I well recall that when I first proposed some family-sized farm limitation, I was in the decided minority. I am very pleased and very happy that the President of this great country of ours has finally seen fit to come to that position, and I would predict that on many of the recommendations we have made, as has happened in the past, they will become the point of view of the majority rather than the minority. Senator HOLLAND. Now, let us come back for a moment to your organization. Is there any particular reason why you stayed out of

the States like my own, which produces I believe about $700 million worth of agricultural products in a year? Is such a State not worthy of attention by an organization which claims to be nationwide?

Mr. PATTON. Going back into the history of it, Senator Holland, there was, before the cotton debacle between 1910 and 1915, a rather substantial organization of the Farmers Union in all of the Southern States, including Florida. The organization went through, as many organizations did in the war years, the World War I years, a very tough period, and membership dropped down and the organization began to move northward into the so-called, what we call the Scandinavian area, your area, Senator Young, and stayed in Oklahoma and Arkansas and Texas, where they had some services connected with the Farmers Union which attracted members to stay.

We have been growing rather substantially. We are entering new States, and I hope that one day we will have an organization in Florida, both for a personal reason and for an organizational reason. I would like to get down there once in a while to enjoy your wonderful climate.

Senator HOLLAND. We will be happy to welcome you, and if there is anybody in our State, however, that wants the National Farmers Union at this time, they have not been vocal in their expressions to me.

Mr. PATTON. We have had a substantial number of inquiries. In some of our meetings we have even had some cattlemen from Florida attend our meetings.

Senator HOLLAND. Now, let us come to this question that you raise, that I have not heard raised before-maybe it has been raised by someone that you propose to have the Treasury go out of balance by devoting several billion dollars for 100 percent price-support payments for 1955, which is already behind them.

Do you know how much that would cost?

Mr. PATTON. Yes, sir.

Senator HOLLAND. How much?

Mr. PATTON. We were talking before you came in. Somewhere between 4 and 5 billion dollars.

Senator HOLLAND. Then you propose by this one recommendation, if you found that you could have it passed through the Congress and approved by the President, to disturb the balanced budget to the tune of between 4 and 5 billion dollars; is that correct?

Mr. PATTON. It would not be disturbed by anywhere near that much because it would put a tremendous amount of purchasing power into circulation. It would enable farmers to pay taxes who were not going to be paying any income taxes this year, a substantial number of them, and in addition to that, it would increase the gross national product so that over the next year or 2 or 3 years, actually the Treasury would be better off and the country, of course, would be better off, because there would be fewer busted farmers.

Senator HOLLAND. And you are making that request for all producers, although you have conceded, as I understand, that a large number of the producers as shown by their commodity organizations are not only not asking for this 1955 handout, but are not supporting your program for the future?

Mr. PATTON. I do not think it is a handout, in the first place. In the second place, I doubt that there would be as many as 1 percent who would refuse the check. I know they did not when the benefit

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