12139. The boundaries of the proposed National Park in H.R. 12139, however, do not extend far enough north.

In summary, I want to see the entire North Cascades preserved in its present state for the benefit of hikers, climbers, campers and nature-lovers in general. Please enter this testimony into the official hearing record.

Mr. UDALL. Now we'll take this gentleman, we have Mr. Des Chene.

STATEMENT OF RAYMOND DES CHENE

Mr. DES CHENE. Gentlemen, my name is Mr. Raymond Des Chene, I live in Bellevue, Wash., and I support H.R. 12139. Mr. UDALL. Thank you.

WRITTEN PRESENTATION OF RAYMOND J. DES CHENE

I support the formation of a North Cascades National Park as stated in H.R. 12139. This bill will provide a National Park in the State of Washington that will preserve some of the outstanding alpine features of this country. With all the inroads that are being made in this country by industry, the amount of wilderness area remaining is rapidly decreasing to a point where, if we do not save it today, it will be gone tomorrow and never can it be retrieved.

H.R. 12139 includes one of my favorite areas for hiking and scenery-the Cascades Pass Area. This area is easily accessible and can be enjoyed by almost any person who has the mind and stamina to get out and do a little hiking. By hiking to this area one get an unblemished alpine view and also be within a wilderness area that has not changed for hundreds of years. This is as it should be this is the way we want our children and grandchildren to see and enjoy it. If the logger and the miner are allowed to have their way-these areas will soon be just a memory to those who were fortunate enough to see them in their natural, unmolested state, not scarred by erosion that has been caused by the felling of trees, the natural barrier to erosion; not disfigured by slag heaps left by the miner's shovel, but just the way they always have been.

Today our population is growing as it has never grown before. The amount of time man has for leisure is also increasing. Many more people want to get out and enjoy the natural beauties of this country. The parks we have today are on many days of the vacation season-Overcrowded: "No Vacancy" signs are placed early in the day on many campgrounds. Thousands of people want to get away from the crowds-away from the hurried everyday existence that they are subjected to for 50 weeks of the year. Where will they be able to go if the North Cascades are nothing more than a large slag pile and stumpage?

Give them a chance to get outdoors and enjoy the wilderness just as the first pioneers to this area did. Many of us have some pioneer blood in us and like to do some of our own pioneering. Give us a place to do it.

Henry Thoreau was a lover of nature and the natural world he lived in. He wrote as if he could see what was happening a hundred years from his time, as if he could see the events of today. One of his messages which applies even more today than the day he wrote it, is as follows:

"I seek acquaintance with Nature, to know her moods and manner. Primitive nature is the most interesting to me. I take infinite pains to know all the phenomena of spring, for instance, thinking that I have here the entire poem, and then, to my chagrin, I learn that it is but an imperfect copy that I possess and have read, that my ancestors have torn out many of the first leaves and grandest passages, and mutilated it in many places. I should not like to think that some demi-god had come before me and picked out some of the best of the stars. I wish to know an entire heaven and an entire earth."

In wilderness is the preservation of the world.

Mr. UDALL. And you, sir?

STATEMENT OF W. M. LENNOX

Mr. LENNOX. My name is Lennox, I don't want to belabor the issue, this represents to me a commodity which is irreplaceable, as our population grows it will become more valuable, as our increased leisure

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becomes reality it will become more valuable. Now I feel because of this it must be preserved and I feel the use of roads if held to a minimum that there will be room for hunting and skiing close to the roads or the less strenuous activities and still the interior of the area can be preserved in its natural state, as I say, as an irreplaceable commodity.

WRITTEN PRESENTATION OF W. M. LENNOX

I feel very strongly that the North Cascades area is an extremely valuable public resource that must be protected in order that its full potential may be enjoyed by the citizens of this and future generations. Accordingly, I favor H.R. 12139 and feel that anything less than H.R. 8970 as amended would represent unfair use of public property.

The North Cascades area is already unique by virtue of its beauty, size and relatively undeveloped state. If properly preserved, the value of this uniqueness will increase immeasurably, for it will be amplified and more keenly appreciated as the remaining undeveloped areas of this country are swallowed up by our growing population and as the increased leisure that the future promises becomes a reality. The validity of this has been verified by the dramatically increasing use of facilities such as Yellowstone and Yosemite National Parks.

Since the real and enduring value of this area lies in its scenic beauty, unique wilderness state, and recreational potential, to permit "multiple use" as in accordance with current Forest Service practice, is highly prejudicial to the public interest. It is therefore imperative that immediate legislation be enacted to protect this area against exploitation by timber, grazing, hydroelectric and mining interests.

The establishment of a North Cascade National Park and Wilderness area is in accordance with the highest of American traditions. To me it would represent an act of greatness, fairness and foresight.

Mr. UDALL. Anyone else on this list? Your name?

STATEMENT OF NELS ROSELUND

Mr. ROSELUND. Nels Roselund. I'm a civil engineer, I originally moved here, I have chosen to live in Washington because I enjoy being in and near primitive areas, I'm anxious to spend much time in the local mountains. I favor the passage of H.R. 12139. I favor the preservation of as large an area as possible in a natural primitive state, and would not be opposed to a large wilderness area which excluded mining.

Mr. UDALL. Thank you.

WRITTEN PRESENTATION OF NELS ROSELUND

Of all the places I have been in the United States, I have enjoyed most my foot trips into the rugged mountains. I hope and plan for many more of these trips.

Natural areas of our country are diminishing. The effect people have on our surroundings is becoming so general, that it's hard to find a place to go where one can travel at will without becoming aware that the works of man have altered land and life. I believe we Americans must set limits on our advance into the remaining areas that are relatively unaltered by our progress.

The North Cascades region is not an inexhaustible source of minerals and lumber. The virgin resources there, once tapped, would soon become inadequate or depleted, as have those of other once-rich areas. The destruction of natural beauties there through cutting, mining or damming, to meet needs of our society would be but a tragic brief delay in the rush toward the time when we will have to meet those needs by alternate means because natural resources are used up.

I believe we Americans must discipline ourselves to seek and use alternate means now at our own expense, rather than leaving the problem to be solved by a future generation to whom we will also leave a countryside irreparably changed by our projects.

I urge passage of H.R. 12139 to provide maximum protection of the natural state of the wilderness in the North Cascades.

Mr. UDALL. You, sir?

STATEMENT OF GEORGE DENGLER

Mr. DENGLER. My name is George Dengler. I'm a physician. I've lived in this area for 6 years, and I just want you to realize how much we would lose if we would lose this park. If we realize that every morning 190,000 more human people are at the world's breakfast table than there were the day before, if we realize that fact, it is selfevident that we are in a preferred part of the world. Multiple use is not the answer for preserving these parts of the United States, but experts have testified the facts and figures. I only want to say that we Americans must preserve this part of our heritage, a portion of our primitive lands, to enable future generations to experience that which is eternity. Special-interest groups do not have this long view or this long vision. Could we imagine an America without Yellowstone Park, without Glacier Park, without Mount Rainier Park, without any of the other parks? I'm in favor of H.R. 12139, or as an alternative, H.R. 8970.

Thank you.

Mr. UDALL. Thank you.

WRITTEN PRESENTATION OF GEORGE W. DENGLER, M.D.

I am a physician living and practicing in North King County. We moved from New York in 1961 and came to a land of splendor unknown to most of us in the East. I have been a champion of conservation for most of my life and realize now, as never before how much America will lose if a National Park and Wilderness areas are not established in the North Cascades. My concern is not for the Citizens of Washington, but of all the United States and subsequent generations. When the grim fact that every day there are 190,000 more human beings at the world's breakfast table, is realized it is self evident that conservation of wilderness areas is a necessity for civilization. Multiple use is not the answer for preservation of parts of the United States as our ancestors saw it.

The experts have testified the facts and figures; I can only add that we Americans must preserve part of our heritage, a portion of our primitive lands, to enable future generations to experience that which is eternity.

Special interest groups do not have this long view and vision. Could we imagine an America without Yellowstone Park, Glacier Park, Mt. Rainier Park, Olympic National Park and all of the others? How much of our heritage would no longer exist?

I favor HR 12139 or an alternative HR 8970.

Mr. UDALL. You're next, sir.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM SCOTT CHILTON

Mr. CHILTON. My name is William Scott Chilton. I've been a resident of Seattle for 5 years and one of the most attractive reasons for my residing in this area is that we have this large wilderness area so that I would like to support the bill that gives the most protection; that is H.R. 12139, and alternatively, if there has to be some compromise made, I would also support H.R. 8970. I could also support a wilderness area, however, if mining were not permitted in this area. Mr. UDALL. Thank you, sir.

WRITTEN PRESENTATION OF WILLIAM SCOTT CHILTON

I have been a resident of Seattle for five years. Before coming here I lived in Pennsylvania, Virginia and Illinois. Most of my life has been spent in large cities. Like many other city dwellers I appreciate the opportunity to hike and camp in the forests and mountains. While living on the east coast I often used the national forests and national parks of Virginia and North Carolina and was well able to appreciate the special protection that the designation National Park affords to public land above those afforded by other types of Federal land holding. Unfortunately in Illinois, where I lived for five years, the natural features opened almost all the land to early settlement and development before the need for preservation of some undeveloped areas could be recognized and acted on. Today there is at least some attempt to preserve or even restore undeveloped areas in that state. The major park I used in Illinois at that time was an abandoned open strip coal mine.

We have fortunately the opportunity in Washington State to provide recreation areas on better land than discarded strip mines. We already have fine National Parks at Rainier and on the Olympic Peninsula. With the rapid expansion of the Puget Sound population and the growth of our towns and cities in the eastern part of the state and with the expanding population of the whole nation we need foresighted preservation of the North Cascades area under the National Park System. I recommend creation of a North Cascades National Park with boundaries provided by HR 12139 and I recommend creation of the Chelan National Recreation Area and National Cascades Wilderness Area with boundaries as set forth in that bill.

Mr. UDALL. This gentleman over here.

STATEMENT OF PAUL WISEMAN

Mr. WISEMAN. My name is Paul Wiseman from Olympia, Wash. It's difficult to say something new at this point. I'm very much in favor of H.R. 12139. I have hiked and climbed and skiied in the Cascade areas all my life and I expect to continue. Comparing with other areas over the world that I have seen, I think it unquestionably deserves national park attention that they would give it.

There are two points I would like to stress, a point about Thunder Creek. By 1990 it has been stated this noon by Senator Jackson—and I read it in other places-most of our power will be thermal power; there won't be a need for hydropower from that area, so I think the highest use there is wilderness. Secondly, I would like to think centuries ahead rather than just what's going on in the current generation or current century. I think when it comes to mining, surely people here, as populated again as it is now, are still going to have an interest in minerals.

Mr. UDALL. Thank you very much.

WRITTEN PRESENTATION OF PAUL W. WISEMAN

I fully agree with the recommendations of the North Cascades Conservation Council. They look toward long-range preservation of the most scenic parts of the North Cascades. The United States Senate is certainly to be commended for taking the first step in preserving this superb area as shown by its passage of S. 1321. That bill is only a beginning, however. The world's choice beauty spots are deserving of unloopholed protection, and this bill and H.R. 8970 go only part way. The deficiencies, and why they are deficiencies, have been placed in the record by representatives of the North Cascades Conservation Council and the Federation of Western Outdoor Clubs and I shall not repeat them. H.R. 12139 introduced by Congressman Pelly will give adequate protection and is the best bill. I know that the members of these organizations have carefully studied the North Cascades over many years. They have done a careful, objective job in selecting the recommended boundaries for a national park, and for recreation and wilderness areas so that the public can get the most value from the area in

the centuries ahead. I think we have to look ahead centuries, not decades or generations.

Ninety-nine and three-fourths per cent of America's population does not live in the five counties which include the North Cascades. That 994 per cent own and have a right to enjoy and to decide about the future of that marvelous area just as much as the one-fourth per cent who are close by. Change in the use of land, whether it involves a new airport, a new freeway, a new park, a new anything, can also change the lives of people existing and unborn. The existing ones object to change vociferously as we see here today. I ask the committee and the Congress to look far beyond today's generation, however.

I think the people who oppose preservation of scenic resources, be it the North Cascades, the Redwoods, Diamond Head, the Grand Canyon, the Matterhorn, or Mount Everest (someday some mining firm may want it, too), tend to consider only their own personal interests of that moment. By "moment" I mean that instant in time identified as the 20th century.

A century ago, and countless centuries before, most of America's scenic resources were largely intact. Fewer people were around to enjoy them and there was probably no concerted effort to destroy them. Today the number of people wanting and using recreation areas is increasing far faster than is the population. All evidence points to an ever-increasing demand for scenic recreation areas in the centuries ahead. The trend in the length of the work week is downward and the standard of living is rising at an increasing rate.

Even today one meets people from thousands of miles away when he walks through the North Cascades. I am confident that in the next century these mountains and valleys, if their beauty is maintained, will have visitors each year from virtually every nation on earth.

From a monetary standpoint (and that is the major standpoint of the opposition to preservation), scenery can be sold over and over again for park fees, camp fees, hotel bills, transportation charges, and so on. Mining can occur only once. Further, we should not assume that humanity's interest in metals will be dead in a generation or two. Today's citizens need not be so selfish that some of the decisions of what and how to mine cannot be left for the more enlightened inhabitants of a few hundred years hence. They will doubtless solve their problems in ways undreamed of today. I like to think Congressmen Aspinall and Taylor and their committee will go down in history for giving them the opportunity. Today's decisions may not be perfect; but if mistakes are made, they should be made on the safe side rather than on the irrevocable side.

Mr. UDALL. OK, this lady in the back, you're next.

STATEMENT OF ANGELA LAVIGNE

Mrs. LA VIGNE. I'm Angela La Vigne. For the last 10 or 11 years I've seen the mountains become more and more crowded. This is what sent me over to the conservationist camp and, therefore, yes, I'm strongly in favor of the park.

The other point which comes up which seems to be of interest, I'm one of these people that has a slight conflict in work. I'm a gung-ho skier, so I know the Alps, I know the beautiful areas; yet I'm willing to limit myself in this respect because I think we have something out there in those mountains and glaciated peaks that is worth more to me than having my fine ski areas, and so I've got to protect them as a national park.

Mr. UDALL. You do more in 1 minute than some do in 3 or 5. Thank you.

WRITTEN PRESENTATION OF ANGELA B. LAVIGNE

Up to now I have not taken active part in conservation because there seemed to be abundant countryside in Washington. But in recent years I have seen our favorite haunts, such as Cascade Pass, become so crowded that we have given them up. We have had to travel ever further to find a mountain scene undisturbed by the noisy throng. And, doggone it, the human soul does seem to need some peace and quiet at the end of a hectic week at office or home.