that of the witnesses who have been here and testified they have numbered about 10 to 1 for the park rather than those against it, so I feel rather sincere disagreement with the part of your statement that suggests that these hearings are unfair or that they've been overloaded in favor of the commercial interest.

Dr. HUBBARD. There are two points I'd like to make. GeorgiaPacific has a big lobby and spends a lot of money on lobbying and getting their point across. The Sierra Club ran two ads, one in the New York Times and one in the Washington Post, and the Internal Revenue took their tax-exempt status away from them; the conservation status is getting large enough, almost like the civil rights movement; it's up to you gentlemen to provide adequate hearings for us; this hearing is cutting us down to 2 minutes. I don't care if GeorgiaPacific did have 5 minutes, they have people to go to Washington; I can't, I had to take time off work; this hearing should be made fair and equitable; it's going to take more time than 2 days; it's up to the committees that have to do this legislation to give us time to state

our case.

Mr. FOLEY. Congress has problems of foreign aid and we have 19 departments to manage. I have hearings which I promised to hold that have been delayed 2 or 3 years on another committee that I serve on because I haven't had a chance to get to them yet. Now this is important. But who is to say-who is to make the final judgment-that this is more important than all the other things pending before the Congress.

Dr. HUBBARD. Because we have pressing legislation does not mean we should hurry it through unless it's adequately heard.

Mr. McCLURE. Should we push this other legislation aside, pressing legislation for this?

Dr. HUBBARD. I think we should set other-we're not solving this properly by stating that we don't have enough time; let's make enough time.

Mr. McCLURE. There are 24 hours a day and I haven't found a multiplier.

Dr. HUBBARD. I don't tell my patients that I can't give you good quality methods, I have to work 24 hours a day

Mr. FOLEY. If you're the only doctor in a community of 15,000 at some point you'd have to tell the patients, "You could have 1 minute, I know it isn't enough, I know you have a complicated illness, I'd like to have 3 hours with you.'

Dr. HUBBARD. I'd probably get an associate to help you.

Mr. FOLEY. We can't get an associate Congress.

Dr. HUBBARD. The fact that we are sitting here discussing this makes the point I'm trying to make, that this problem does exist, unless we citizens and legislators try to solve it a little better.

Mr. FOLEY. By taking the time to have this discussion I'll end up denying somebody else who has driven in here even 2 minutes. Dr. HUBBARD. Well, I'm glad we got it in the record anyway. Mr. FOLEY. I appreciate that.

Mr. UDALL. Gloria Watters?

STATEMENT OF MRS. GLORIA J. WATTERS

Mrs. WATTERS. My name is Gloria J. Watters. I'm a native Washingtonian, born in Seattle, and I do favor the North Cascades Park, as I've always enjoyed hiking along our beautiful mountain trails, and hope for wilderness preservation, especially to save the trees, no future generations can enjoy them, that they will really know and learn to appreciate what God has created for man to love, not destroy, therefore, please help to assist me in preserving land for natural beauties, and so forth, by my presence at the hearings to be held in Seattle, April 19 and 20.

I also have a statement from David Smith, who could not be here today.

Mr. UDALL. Thank you very much.

(The statement follows:)

PRESENTATION OF DR. DAVID M. SMITH

It is an honor to be able to express my feelings on the subject of a North Cascades National Park to this committee.

It was nine years ago, as an intern newly arrived from Michigan, that I first saw the North Cascades on a hiking and camping trip up the White Chuck River to Kennedy Hot Springs below Glacier Peak. I will never forget the impression that the beauty of this region made upon me. Even after being in this area since then, I am still thrilled by the beauty of the peaks and forests included in the North Cascades.

I feel strongly that a national park is the best method of preserving the natural wonders of the North Cascades for future generations. If a park is formed, as I am certain one will be, it is essential that it include more than just the ice and ridges of the high country, however. Even in 1959 it was only a few hours walk from the roadhead in cutover land to the base of Glacier Peak. In an automobile this would be only a few minutes. The park must include as much of the remaining wooded valleys surrounding the high country as is possible to be a truly adequate park. For this reason I strongly support HR-12139 to create a North Cascades National Park, a Chelan National Recreation Area, plus a North Cascades Wilderness area.

Mr. UDALL. Jonathan Edwards?

STATEMENT OF JONATHAN EDWARDS

Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Chairman and committee members, I am going to touch today on something that might seem unrelated: it's the urban problem we have and how it's connected with this park.

What can we do today to help prevent our cities in the 21st century from becoming one mass urban ghetto? How can we make living in a crowded United States more human for our heritage? We can provide a place where a person can be alone. Satisfying this biological need to be alone will become more essential as population and urbanization increase.

The crisis in our cities today is evidence that problems of human environment take priority over problems of possible forest and mineral resource shortages. What good is having a luxurious, wooden home if it comes at the expense of its burning and looting?

I feel that a national park is the best alternative to insure that Americans in the 21st century will have a place to be alone, a place unscarred by man's ski lifts, mines, and deforestation, a place of permanence within a world of change, a place where one can gain the

perspective so necesary for human fulfillment. The shortage of such a place will be many times greater than any shortage of timber, copper, or "with-people" recreation. I have seen irresponsible people with the dregs of mines and scars from lumber roads and slashes in my travels. The choice, gentlemen, is between human responsibility or shortterm material gain. Let us demonstrate that man can be moral. Let's establish a North Cascades National Park.

Mr. UDALL. Thank you very much.

Doug Rider?

STATEMENT OF DOUGLAS RIDER, PRESIDENT OF THE SPOKANE MOUNTAINEERS

Mr. RIDER. I am Douglas Rider, president of the Spokane Mountaineers.

Our organization has over 200 members with a mutual interest in preserving significant acreage of our Northwest mountain scene, in spite of the increasing pressure of population and urban expansion. In our founding year of 1915, there were few national parks, few conservationists and very limited encroachments on the wilderness in the North Cascades. Today we can thank those people whose dedication to the preservation of God's handiwork made those parks a reality. Now we are at the time of decision. Everyone agrees that the North Cascades are unique, especially when they have been seen for themselves. Very few agree on one plan and one area to preserve, but it is clear that national park protection can preserve the spectacular wilderness best.

Of the current bills before the House, H.R. 12139 merits our strongest support. It refers to the area of scenic climax for the North Cascades, namely, the Glacier Peak Wilderness Area. The boundaries of the proposed park, the North Cascade Wilderness Area, and the Chelan National Recreation Area, and the simplest and most effective way to utilize the area for the benefit of more people than any other bill. We would also be willing to support H.R. 8970, another of a series of bills before the House. This seems close to the Senate version. We would again urge adding the Mount Baker region to the park proposal as the best possible landmark and identifying feature for the new park. Along with the additions of the Cascade and Granite Creek areas, we would also add the Stehekin Valley. The Stehekin is the one narrow, fragile access from the southeast. After a long boat approach up Lake Chelan, it would be tragic to arrive at a combination Disneyland, hunting-fishing lodge, commercial takeoff point to the heartland. One excuse given for declassifying the Stehekin is the few private holdings, the other is its hunting potential. Congressman Tom Foley has urged second looks at park policy on hunting. This is more constructive than excluding acres from year-round control, to permit a few hunters a clear shot in October.

We Spokanites look forward to the creation of this fine new park. We will be the gateway for 45 States and our tourist business will benefit. If the final boundaries of the North Cascades National Park reflect the work of the study team report, the conservationists' proposal, and reflect the suggestions from these hearings, then we shall have an unusual

consensus. It will be an agreement among Americans to preserve something worthwhile and to enjoy it.

Mr. UDALL. Mr. Earll Murman.

STATEMENT OF EARLL MURMAN

Mr. MURMAN. I am grateful for the opportunity to appear today before the House Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs. My name is Earll Murman, and I am a resident of Seattle, Wash. I am here to testify in favor of the North Cascades Park proposals.

The national parks in the United States have proven to be a successful means of preserving and protecting the scenic landscapes for all to enjoy. I myself have visited numerous national parks, and will plan my future travels to include them again in my itinerary. The contacts with nature experienced through a visit to the national parks will be sought after more and more by the urban society of the future. I wish to urge the committee to set aside as much land as possible in the scenic North Cascades to create a North Cascades National Park. For the park to truly preserve a bit of the North Cascades as they are, it should be complete so as to include forests and rivers as well as lakes and ice, peaks, and meadows.

In addition, I wish to express a vote for the wilderness proposals included in the bills before the House. More and more people in the United States are finding that a contact with wilderness per se is a worthwhile experience. It is clear that the total wilderness lands in the country are decreasing, and we must take steps to preserve that which is still left. The North Cascades areas afford an excellent opportunity to do this. I hope the committee sees fit to recognize this opportunity. Thank you.

Mr. UDALL. Thank you, sir.

Margret Benshoof.

STATEMENT OF MISS MARGRET BENSHOOF

Miss BENSHOOF. Gentlemen, I would seek protection of the North Cascades Primitive Area by supporting bill H.R. 12139 or bill H.R. 8970, specifically in opposition to the development of mining claims in those regions.

Two months ago I visited the State of Arizona. The copper industry had been on strike for several months prior to my visit and as a consequence Phoenix had very little air pollution.

According to the office of the State of Washington Air Sanitation Control there are no statewide regulations governing open-pit mining in terms of dust control, washing of ore, or the establishment of smelters for the processing of ore. Since we do not know the intentions of the claim holders in any of these three operations, let us assume they all represent potential injuries.

Let us consider the problem of dust. There will be high quantities of arsenic and lead impurities found in the copper ore and these chemicals will be carried by the dust particles dispersed by the mining operation. Both of these impurities can result in enormous damage to vegetation and animal life.

The second injury we have listed is washing the ore. Here we would be confronted with stream pollution and the extent of the injury would be hard to estimate or even guess.

I've skipped quite a bit of my presentation.

Mr. UDALL. It will be printed in the hearing record in full.

Miss BENSHOOF. The third injury which has not been considered probably by this hearing is the problem of smelter operations. Since we do have a major smelter in Tacoma, this probably has not even come up, but if a major mining operation goes in the Cascade area that is a problem we'll have to face.

Thank you very much.

May I ask this be inserted for another witness?

Mr. UDALL, Certainly; it certainly will.

(The statement follows:)

PRESENTATION OF MARGRET E. BENSHOOF

I would like to request that the following statement be made a part of the hearing record of the public hearings on North Cascades National Park and Wilderness Legislation, 9:00 A.M., Friday and Saturday, April 19 and 20, 1968, Benjamin Franklin Hotel, Seattle, Washington.

I support the creation of a North Cascades National Park, a Ross Lake National Recreation Area, a Passayten Wilderness and enlargement of Glacier Peak Wilderness by providing legislation which does a truly proper and adequate job of protecting the scenic wilderness character of the North Cascades.

I would seek protection of the North Cascades Primitive Area as a North Cascades Wilderness Area (proposed by N.C.C. in 1960) in conjunction with the Park designated in H.R. 12139 or Park & Wilderness designated in H.R. 8970; 1) by designating the North Cascades National Park to be essentially a wilderness park, with peripheral roads only, similar to Olympic National Park, and, 2) by opposing the Kennecott Copper Corp. plans for mining within the Glacier Peak Wilderness and recommending this area be put in the Park to facilitate purchase of Kennecott's property and to prevent establishment of any more mining claims.

Two months ago I visited the state of Arizona. The copper industry had been on strike for several months prior to my visit and as a consequence Phoenix had negligible air pollution. Every person I talked to in Phoenix had the same thing to say, "we can see the mountains and the sky is clear. Something that hasn't happened for years." Because of the air pollution problems already faced by the state of Washington we must stop thinking in terms of air pollution Control and today consider air pollution prevention.

According to the office of the State of Washington Air Sanitation Control there are no statewide regulations governing open pit mining in terms of dust control, washing of ore or the estabilshment of smelters for the processing of ore. Since we do not know Kennecott's intentions in any one of these three operations let us assume they all present potential injuries.

First let us consider dust as a potential injury. Since I am not a mining engineer I do not know the type of ore which will be found in the Kennecott claim but as a layman with some knowledge of chemistry I do know there will be high quantities of arsenic and lead impurities found in the copper ore and these chemicals will be carried by the dust particles dispersed by the mining operation. Both of these impurities can result in enormous damage to vegetation and animal life. (See attached copies of excerpts from Air Pollution Handbook, pp 2-20, 21. 22.) (Also, reference Air Pollution Handbook (2nd Ed.) Edited by Arthur C. Stern, Vol. I, Air Pollution and its Effects. Pub. Academic Press, N.Y.-London, 1968, Library of Congress Cat. Card #67-31042.) p. 402. [Ed note: the items referred to will be found in the file.]

EFFECTS OF AIR POLLUTANTS ON VEGETATION

It is impossible to make a firm assessment of the cost of air pollution damage to vegetation. The best published estimate of the yearly loss in field and vegetable Crops in California is about 8 million dollars and on the eastern seaboard of the United States about 18 million dollars. A more recent estimate of 132 million