STATEMENT OF E. ALLEN ROBINSON

Mr. ROBINSON. I won't read my statement. I want to show you just a few things.

There has been some talk about the inaccessibility of the wilderness areas, I want to state that I would be in favor of a national park, the Pelly bill, but in order to get in to them we have developed in this area several books and I think you were given three of them this morning by one witness. If you'd like any more, we can make them available to you, but just to show you the first one that came out 6 years ago, the text used is now in the second edition, sold 25,000 copies, 1,000 of the second edition that just came out called "Mountaineering and Freedom of the Hills." In addition, the second book that came out was called "North Cascades," which has some beautiful pictures in there and I believe you have a copy of that. This one is a very helpful guide called "Routes and Rocks." It gets all the way from Glacier Peak to Lake Chelan, there are some very good maps in that one. We've had a series of guidebooks started, this one has sold approximately 16,000 copies already, or 20,000. It's called "100 Hikes in Western Washington"; lot of this is in the North Cascades area.

One which came out less than a year ago and has already sold 4,000 copies is "Trips and Trails and Short Hikes for Hikers." It's in the North Cascades as well as the Olympics. I would like to add if you're interested in the brochures on this.

One other point I would like to make, a lot of statements have been made by the forest products companies that this would take away some of the lumbering profession. I would like to point out I'd have to look out of the annual reports in the wood products industry and others, all these wood products industries that I have in my hand in the Northwest and elsewhere, not one of them has a statement in fact the national park proposed here is going to take any lumber away from them, the only one that has a little statement here was Georgia-Pacific.

Mr. UDALL. Thank you, you've been very helpful. Your prepared statement will be entered in the record.

(Mr. Robinson's statement follows:)

STATEMENT OF E. ALLEN ROBINSON

My name is E. Allen Robinson, a resident of Washington State for 22 years and an economist by profession. I wish to support proposed legislation as embodied in H.R. 12139 in order to provide the largest possible national park and wilderness

areas.

My family and I spend much of our vacation time hiking and camping in the North Cascades, and many others are finding recreation in this area with the aid of mountaineering and guide books which have been published by the Mountaineers here in Seattle over the past 8 years.

I have checked into the sales records of these books and found the demand for them has been and continues to be substantial, with a gerat many bought by people living outside the State of Washington. The first one, Mountaineering, a textbook on how to travel and climb in the mountains, sold 25,000 copies in the first edition; the second edition, published just last month, has sold over 1,000 copies already. The second, the North Cascades, an expensive picture book, has sold over 3,400 copies since 1964. Routes and Rocks, a hiker's guide to the North Cascades from Glacier Peak to Lake Chelan, has had nearly 4,000 sales in 3 years. The first of a series of guidebooks, 100 Hikes in Western Washington, has sold over 24,000 copies since publication in July 1966. The second in this series, Trips and Trails in the North Cascades and Olympics, has sold over 6,700 copies in less than a year since June 1967.

These sales figures are ample evidence of the public's recreational interest in our beautiful mountain country here in Western Washington and particularly in the North Cascades.

I should also like to call the committee's attention to statements made verbally by various representatives of the wood products industry expressing concern over possible loss of timber if a national park is established in the North Cascades. Part of my work as an economist is the review of information published by industries active in this State and elsewhere in the West. A careful reading of the annual reports of the larger companies in the wood products industry reveals no statement critical of a North Cascades National Park. These include such companies as the Georgia-Pacific Corp., Weyerhaeuser Co., St. Regis Paper Co., and others obtaining logs from their own lands as well as by bidding on Forest Service sales. If any significant amount of timber supply were to be included in this park, certainly at least one of these companies would complain in an annual report to its stockholders. However, never once over many years have I seen any such printed statement.

Finally, I wish to express my personal abhorrence of ever seeing an open pit mine such as proposed by the Kennecott Copper Corp. on Miner's Ridge. This must never be allowed.

Now I've exhausted the list that was compiled earlier-may I have your name, sir.

Dr. HALLIDAY. Dr. Halliday.

Mr. UDALL. Very well, come ahead. We had two Hallidays earlier and I thought we had had them all.

STATEMENT OF DR. WILLIAM HALLIDAY

Dr. HALLIDAY. I'm Dr. William Halliday. I have a personal statement, a few short organizational statements, with your permission I would like to submit these, my own statement for the record, or summarize it.

With the exception of the North Cross-State Highway and the Skagit Dams, I personally favor the North Cascade National Park boundaries outlined by the Mountaineers on page 268 of the record of the Senate hearings of a year ago. These boundaries, incidentally, are virtually those recommended by the Mountaineers' National Park Committee 4 years earlier but consequently tabled in favor of "conservation unity" with other organizations seeking a smaller park.

Unfortunately, it is clear that there is no chance whatever of amending any bill before Congress into anything like this. Therefore, I support and urge your favorable consideration of the May bill, which would provide better protection to a much larger portion of the North Cascades than the administration bill.

As you know, the May bill codifies our formal State position, reached after vigorous debate by a broad-based committee personally chaired by our Governor. Even with the most extensive amendments that seem remotely possible at this point, the administration bill would not meet even the need of Washingtonians delineated by that committee, much less those of all of America. The May bill is not ideal but it would do the job for the foreseeable future.

Perhaps you might wish to add the other features of the May bill to the national park boundaries of the administration bill. Such a compromise would be certain to receive very broad support, and that is the end of my summary of my statement.

I have here a statement of the Western Speleological Survey of the North Cascades, that's a scientific organization, the Western Speleological Survey has no stand on specific bills. There should be a national

park in the North Cascades as now seen evidenced, however we urge the inclusion of a significant area of alpine karst topography to complete the interpretive geological story of the park

I wish to call the attention of this committee to the omission of this important matter from all the bills presently before it. A minor example of such karst is located just east of the Twin Lakes, but this hardly seems adequate, for this resaon we previously urged inclusion of the Blue Lake area south of Mount Baker; we note this area would be included in the North Cascades National Recreation Area delineated in the May bill. We would be glad to supply technical details on request.

I also have a statement of the Seattle Physician's Committee for a North Cascades National Park which will be submitted for the record. Mr. UDALL. We would appreciate it, we're happy to have you here and thank you for your interest in this matter. Thank you.

Now I have to give priority to the people who wrote in and were given numbers. Let me see the hands of those who have numbers. Will those people come forward to the first two rows and get lined up in order.

Mr. McLure has a question of Dr. Halliday, What is a karst?

Dr. HALLIDAY. Karst is a simple type of cave terrain which occurs in the flatlands of Kentucky and like the mammoth cave company, it occurs in the alpine country, it's quite unusual and undergoing quite a bit of scientific study at this time.

Mr. UDALL. Now we'll begin with you, sir.

STATEMENT OF BOB NEWHALL

Mr. NEWHALL. My name is Bob Newhall, I'm a University of Washington student, No. 662,583. [Laughter.]

I have an excerpt of my statement, I'm going to submit to you the whole statement.

I'm particularly concerned about the mining that's been estimated; it's been estimated that in the oft-mentioned Kennecott copper claim area there is about 1 percent of the known U.S. reserves of this metal. Whatever dollar value this has or the percentage may constitute, in the long run it seems like the esthetic values which accrue incontrovertibly exceed the economic gains, just let the long-term esthetic values run long enough, they'll take care of economic gains from a one-shot removal.

Secondly, I would like to suggest that one of the reasons that Yellowstone Park is so popular is that it has a very great variety, it has geysers, it has falls, rivers, canyons, lakes for the sportsman, and I think this variety is a very important ingredient in a national park. For this reason I strongly urge that you would consider the inclusion of certain lowland valleys, certain timbered lands which might be removed by boundary adjustments and I urge you including those.

Lastly, thank you very much, all of you, for coming here, and I think all of us who are in the room thank you for traveling to the State of Washington so we can offer our opinions to you and so that we can ourselves in attending the hearings obtain much valuable information. Mr. UDALL. Thank you very much.

(The statement follows:)

PRESENTATION OF BOB NEW HALL

My name is Bob Newhall; I'm enrolled in the College of Forestry at the University of Washington.

First, for all of us here, I think, I'd like to thank the committee members for traveling here to get firsthand facts and opinions. I know that the various speakers for groups have presented many facts to you. For my part, then, I'd like to express my opinions on four points of particular concern to me.

(1) Recreational Facilities: As we know, there is no general prohibition against ski facilities in National Parks (Three National Parks, Lassen. Yosemite, and Rocky Mountain-do have ski lifts in them). My overall feeling, however, is that before undertaking any ski development in North Cascades area, all parties concerned should carefully review the testimonial remarks made here yesterday by the evidently well-qualified Mr. Zahn and Mr. Oakberg. (“Essentially a Snoqualmie Sunnite experience, only 21⁄2 hours away instead of one hour.")

(2) On hunting: In a Forest Wildlife Ecology class, we discussed with a career US Fish and Wildlife service man their firsthand experiences with three deer population control methods in Kaibab National Monument. Their general conclusions, applicable also to North Cascades, are that first and most effective (at least cost) is natural predation, followed in effectiveness secondly by professional hunters and thirdly, open season for private hunters.

(3) On mining, it's been estimated that in the oft-mentioned Kennecott copper claim area there are about 1% of the known U.S. reserves of this metal. Whatever dollar value this 1% constitutes, it seems to me that in this particular area, the irreparable esthetic values which accrue in the long run incontrovertibly exceed the economic gains from one-time mineral extraction.

(4) On including lowland timbered valleys reaching into the North Cascades mountains:

(a) The ecological entirety and buffer zone concepts mentioned earlier by the biology teacher and the Colonel-I agree 100% with these considerations.

(b) Lowland hiking is disappearing even faster than alpine hiking areas; that my children might someday ask me, "Daddy, what is a forest?" is a question I don't want to have to answer vicariously for them.

(c) An exceptionally important reason that Yellowstone is so popular is its variety-geysers, canyons and falls, lakes for sportsmen, trails for hikers * * inclusion of lowland valleys with their forests would add a great deal to the variety value of NC NP at only a small additional added land area.

Conclusion: I have compared the three (four) proposals; for reasons (1) and (2) and particularly (3) and (4), as well as the testimony of well-traveled (some world-wide) witnesses as to the truly national significance of this area, I wholeheartedly ask for the Pelly Bill (H.R. 12139) creating a N.C. National Park, Lake Chelan Recreation Area, and the North Cascades Wilderness amendment.

Thank you.

STATEMENT OF MISS INEZ RENEY, LONGVIEW, WASH.

Miss RENEY. I'm Inez Reney, from Longview, Wash. The Mount St. Helens Outdoor Club wishes to express its opinion that we need a North Cascades National Park as large as possible in order to really protect wilderness values. It should be set up on the order of the Olympic National Park, with a minimum number of roads as necessary at the perimeter, and as much true wilderness retained as possible. We do not believe that improved roads or ostentatious type buildings are necessary in parks. We feel that the proposals of the North Cascades Conservation Council are valid and in fact necessary if we are to have at truly magnificent park, one worthy of such beautiful country, and so necessary to all of us.

Now this other statement. I wish to support the proposals of the North Cascades Conservation Council and H.R. 12139; anything less than this does not give adequate protection to the area. The scenic values are very important, I think we need those along the valleys saved so we can have-look down on some of that beauty and we

don't need to feel that we need to support the economy to the extent of giving up everything that we have, and I think the Stehekin Valley would be very nice to have that saved too, without having too many people coming in.

Thank you very much.

Mr. UDALL. Thank you. Next?

Mr. Meeds tells me you're one of the oustanding photographers in the Nation, if not the world.

STATEMENT OF IRA SPRING, EDMONDS, WASH.

Mr. SPRING. Thank you. I'm Ira Spring of Edmonds.

I would like to voice my support for a North Cascades National Park in the Cascade Mountains of Washington.

My work as an outdoor photographer has taken me to many national parks in the United States, Canada, and Alaska. In addition, I have spent a year photographing the Alps, a year in Japan and Scandinavia. In all my travels, I have yet to see a place more deserving of national park status than the North Cascade Mountains.

When you consider the vast forests that covered western Washington when Captain Vancouver sailed into Puget Sound, the amount of timber tied up in proposed parks and wilderness areas of this State is pretty insignificant. Regardless of what percentage of timber is being tied up, in a few years what we save will be all there is. The trees in our national parks and dedicated wilderness areas will represent 100 percent of our virgin forests.

The fall color seasons in the forests and mountains is the most spectacular and dramatic time of year, and I think we hikers have a right to safe trails such as a national park can furnish.

I am not opposed to hunting, and I am sure it is a fine sport for those who like it. However, even during hunting season I find many hikers on the trails, and sometimes they even outnumber the hunters. I wonder if those with a gun ever experienced the creepy feeling we nonhunters get hiking on a trail during hunting season. Would they be afraid to take their wives and children on a hike.

The interest of preservationists would best be served by a dedicated wilderness area; however, the prestige of a park would have a greater influence on the future tourist industry of this State. Few people will come to Washington to see a wilderness, but I think thousands will come to a State with three national parks.

I am not overly concerned with the exact boundaries of the proposed park. I am concerned that a large area be reserved as a dedicated wilderness. Hiking is a legitimate use of our outdoors and can never be truly compatible with the Forest Service's multiple-use concept.

The Forest Service land has become a complex system of roads which are great for hunting and car trips and certainly a necessity for harvesting timber, but low-land hikes have virtually disappeared and mountain lakes and alpine meadows that were once challenging hikes are now easy strolls. There is, of course, a real need for short hikes, but only in a dedicated wilderness area can we be assured of saving a few challenging hikes, as worthwhile a purpose as skiing or any other activity.