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It was my understanding that was necessary because the Department had through a "misunderstanding" gone ahead and proceeded with the engineering contract negotiations on that plant anyway; is that

correct?

Mr. DILUZIO. No. What happened there is the money which had been set aside to rebuild Point Loma II, expired on June 30, and some moneys expired in September, and we had to come back for additional funds. On top of that, the Navy had not paid us for their share. They took the plant and did not pay us until just a few weeks ago.

Mr. REINECKE. I thought you had already gotten into the negotiations and that that resolution was our way of getting you off the hook, to allow you to continue that, and yet I see from today you are not going to even open the bids until the end of March this year. Mr. HOLUM. This committee had asked us

Mr. REINECKE. What was going on last year that was so urgent that we had to do this before we could pass the act? We had to pass the resolution before we could pass the act.

Mr. HOLUM. This committee had asked us to justify to the committee the reconstruction of Point Loma-the Point Loma plant, what we now call Point Loma II. When we brought that justification before the committee and discussed it with you, you passed the resolution to indicate we had met that responsibility.

We have been proceeding as rapidly as we could to get the plant under construction.

Mr. REINECKE. Was it not true some action had been taken without congressional approval and this resolution was necessary to whitewash that misunderstanding?

Mr. HOLUM. No; I think not.

Mr. REINECKE. Thank you.

Mr. ROGERS of Texas. Let me correct the record. I said 60 cents a thousand gallons on that imported water. I think the estimate I had was $60 an acre-foot."

Mr. HOLUM. And I would like to agree with your correction of the record. I have been having the same second thoughts, Mr. Chair

man.

Mr. ROGERS of Texas. My memory is a little fuzzy on it, but it reduces it somewhat in the area of 20 cents or below. But you say there are no studies on that at all, Mr. Secretary?

Mr. HOLUM. No definitive study, no.

Mr. ROGERS of Texas. Do you plan to make it?

Mr. HOLUM. Not without congressional approval.

Mr. ROGERS of Texas. It seems there is quite a discussion on it.

I think that is all. I appreciate very much your coming up, Mr. Secretary, and Mr. DiLuzio. I imagine that Mr. Aspinall's questions and the answers thereto, furnished for the record pursuant to permission heretofore granted, may furnish some additional information.

If there is nothing further to come before the subcommittee, we stand adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.

(Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned, subject to call.)

HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON IRRIGATION AND
RECLAMATION

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON

INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS UNITED STATES SENATE

EIGHTY-NINTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON

S. 24

A BILL TO EXPAND, EXTEND, AND ACCELERATE THE SALINE WATER CONVERSION PROGRAM CONDUCTED BY THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES

48-389 O

MAY 18 AND 19, 1965

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON: 1965

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STATEMENTS

Page

Ennis, Charles E., assistant to the executive vice president, Catalytic Con-
struction Co..

115

Godwin, R. P., manager, Scientific Development Department, Bechtel
Corp. -

110

Gore, William L., senior vice president, Aerojet-General Corp.: accompa-
nied by Dr. Bertram Keilin_.

77

73

Mangan, Dr. George F., Jr., Chief, Membrane Division, Office of Saline

Water.

Nedry, Alan M., Southern California Edison Co..

Pike, John W., president, Struthers Scientific & International Corp..
Ramey, James T., Commissioner, U.S. Atomic Energy Commission; ac-
companied by Dr. John Swartout, Assistant General Manager for Re-
actors; W. A. Williams, Jr., Chief, Desalination Branch; and Dr. R.
Philip Hammond, Oak Ridge National Laboratory....

San Diego Gas & Electric Co..

Sandland, Clifford, president and director, C. F. Braun & Co..

Sherwood, Thomas K., professor of chemical engineering, Massachusetts

Institute of Technology-

Sieder, E. N., chief, Distillation Division, Office of Saline Water..
Simpson, John W., group vice president, electric utility group, Westing-
house Electric Corp.; accompanied by Roy Gaunt, manager, water pro-
jects department.

35

87

177

16

Strobel, J. J., Chief, Special Projects Division, Office of Saline Water-
Tribus, Dr. Myron, dean, Thayer School of Engineering, Dartmouth Col-
lege, Hanover, N.H..

170

95

COMMUNICATIONS

Biemiller, Andrew J., Department of Legislation, AFL-CIO: Letter to
Hon Henry M. Jackson, chairman, Interior and Insular Affairs Commit-
tee, dated April 26, 1965...

213

Rice, Theron J., legislative general manager, Chamber of Commerce of the
United States: Letter to Hon. Henry M. Jackson, chairman, Interior and
and Insular Affairs Committee, dated May 26, 1965--

Snyder, W. Cordes, Jr. chairman of the board, Blaw-Knox Co.: Letter to

Hon. Clinton P. Anderson, chairman, Irrigation and Reclamation Sub-

committee, dated May 20, 1965...

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TUESDAY, MAY 18, 1965

U.S. SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON IRRIGATION AND RECLAMATION,

OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,
Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., in room 3110, New Senate Office Building, Senator Clinton P. Anderson presiding.

Present: Senators Jackson (chairman of the full committee), Anderson (chairman of the subcommittee), Moss, Burdick, and Allott. Also present: Jerry T. Verkler, staff director; Theodore M. Schad, consultant, and Richard N. Little, minority counsel.

Senator ANDERSON. I think, in the interest of time, I am going to put my statement into the record as if read.

I am personally pleased to see the fine response to the call for hearings on the important subject before us this morning. We have a list of distinguished witnesses who, I am sure, will make a great contribution to the knowledge of the Senate and particularly of this

committee.

One aspect about future desalting hearings should be mentioned at this time. Chairman Jackson of the full committee has announced his intention to schedule annual hearings hereafter on the "state of the art of desalination." The hearings might be carried out in a fashion similar to those on atomic energy developments and innovations that were held under section 202 of the Atomic Energy Act. I am sure this will be a significant contribution toward keeping our Government and our people aware of the tremendous importance of the desalination program, and I commend Chairman Jackson for his decision.

The Subcommittee on Irrigation and Reclamation of the Senate Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs opens its hearings this morning with a twofold purpose in mind: (1) To review the progress in saline water conversion under the expanded authorization provided by Public Law 87-295 which was approved by this committee in 1961, and which authorization expires in fiscal year 1967; and (2) to try to assess where we may be heading in this proposed $275 million, 5-year program to advance desalting technology. On March 29, the President again expressed his personal interests in desalting progress by sending a letter to the President of the Senate and to the Speaker of the House, in which he requested that a major acceleration in advanced desalting technology be authorized in this session of Congress. Legislation to accomplish this acceleration is before the committee in the form of S. 24, a bill to expand, extend, and

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