You can see the type of experimentation we have been undertaking with these demonstration plants.

A new plant has been designed to replace the San Diego plant. It combines the best features of the previous plant with those of the Freeport plant. We call it the multistage, multi-effect process.

The 250,000 gallons per day electrodialysis plant at Webster, S. Dak., has processed all of the water for the city since March 1962. This plant has achieved all reasonable expectations. It has been on stream about 90 percent of the time and now operates unattended from midnight to 7 a.m. We are confident that the process can be further improved.

The 1-million-gallon-per-day brackish water vapor compression distillation plant at Roswell, N. Mex., was completed in July 1963, but has not yet operated at its designed capacity or for any extended period of time.

Among other things, it has been plagued by process problems related to pretreatment of the feedwater to avoid scale formation on the heat transfer surfaces of the evaporators. The plant operates under a delicate chemical balance in which the calcium is removed from the incoming brackish water stream by means of ion exchange. There also have been mechanical problems with equipment components. Performance of the system has been improved, but further equipment changes will be necessary.

A freezing process was chosen for the fifth demonstration plant at Wrightsville Beach, N.C. When the construction bids were received and analyzed, it was obvious that the freezing process had not been developed to the point where a freezing process demonstration plant could be expected to provide reliable performance and economic information.

Accordingly, the freezing process demonstration plant was not built. In its place, a larger pilot plant, the east coast conversion plant was built at Wrightsville Beach. Construction of this facility, with a design capacity of 200,000 gallons per day was completed in July 1964. Mechanical difficulties, along with some design problems, have prevented successful operation and fresh water production.

In cooperation with the Department of State, we have arranged the First International Symposium on Water Desalination which will be held in Washington, D.C., on October 3-9, 1965. We have extended invitations to all countries with which the United States has diplomatic relations. Fifty-three nations have already indicated their intention to send offical delegations to the meeting. Total attendance is expected to number some 700 to 900 individuals representing the world's outstanding talent in desalting research and engineering. This indicates the broad, international interest in this program and we predict and hope it will be a very outstanding conference and we are giving the planning a great deal of attention at all levels.

During the past year, we exchanged visits of delegations on desalting with the U.S.S.R. and in November, our countries entered into an agreement to cooperate in desalination, including the use of nuclear energy for that purpose. To date, no formal actions have been taken under this agreement, but we anticipate that the first step will be an exchange on a reciprocal basis of technical experts who will make detailed inspections of work that is of special interest to each country.

The Soviet Union seems to be sponsoring a rather comprehensive desalting program. The team of experts who visited Russia did not have time for a full study of the Soviet effort, but they reported significant engineering accomplishments. They are operating a plant of 1.5 million gallons per day which serves as the sole source of water supply for the 20,000 people of the city of Schevchenko that is being built on the Caspian Sea.

They plan to build a nuclear-powered dual-purpose plant at this same location; in fact, the reactor is already under construction. The initial visit to the Soviet Union convinced our representatives that we could benefit substantially from an exchange of technical information. Large, dual-purpose plants, using a common source of energy for electric power generation and distillation, offer opportunities for reducing the cost of the product water. These economies result from more efficient use of energy completely independent of opportunities which may exist for assigning costs so as to reduce the price of one product or the other.

Preliminary indications of the economies obtainable in large size, dual-purpose plants have been set forth in studies prepared for the Office of Saline Water, as well as in the report on "Large NuclearPowered Sea Water Distillation Plants," sponsored by the President's Office of Science and Technology.

More importantly, two major water supply agencies-the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California and the Government of Israel-are seriously considering the construction of large, dual-purpose desalting and electric powerplants.

On August 18, 1964, the Department entered into a contract with Metropolitan, the largest in the United States, to undertake an engineering and economic feasibility study of a plant within the ranges of 50 to 150 million gallons per day and 150 to 750 megawatts electric. Metropolitan would like to have this plant in service by 1970. The study, financed jointly by Interior, the Atomic Energy Commission, and Metropolitan, is being made by the Bechtel Corp. and is scheduled for completion in October. It is moving ahead right to schedule.

As in the case of the Metropolitan Water District, the Department and the Atomic Energy Commission are sharing with the Government of Israel the cost of a feasibility study for a large dual-purpose plant being considered for construction by 1971. This study is being undertaken by Kaiser engineers and is expected to be completed this fall.

Should the project prove to be economically attractive, the engineer's report will form the basis for appropriate decisions regarding further action.

Having noted participation of the Atomic Energy Commission in the two feasibility studies, I would like to digress for a moment to clarify the Department's relationship with the Commission. I would like to say it has been very harmonious and Dr. Seaborg and Commissioner Ramey and others of the AEC have had frequent consultations at the very highest level.

The Federal responsibility for the desalting program is lodgedand I trust always will be lodged-in the Department of Interior. Nuclear power, however, has an unique importance as a potential source of cheap energy for large-size plants. Consequently, we have

been working closely with the Atomic Energy Commission to coordinate our developed program.

We have one large research contract with the Atomic Energy Commission laboratories.

There is no magic to nuclear energy as such-a distillation plant will not work any better on steam generated by a nuclear source. The important factor is not the source of the steam, but its cost. This is, of course, when we look on down the road to what makes nuclear power particularly attractive.

In this regard, the Office of Saline Water has made arrangements with other agencies within Interior to keep abreast of developments in the technology of fossil fuels that will be applicable to desalting. It may be there will be some fossil fuel plants that will be most practicable.

The new program that has been devised to advance desalting technology will change the character of the program by placing greater emphasis on engineering problems and the development of hardware for prototype plants ranging up to 50 million gallons per day. With the expanded program we propose, we will be able to undertake this new and necessary work and at the same time maintain a balance between engineering and research.

The emphasis on engineering will enable us to rapidly utilize existing technology in plants of advanced design and research will provide the insurance policy for the future through which we will be able to foresee future lines of development, improve existing processes and develop entirely new approaches to solve the long-range problems of low-cost desalination.

In the formulation of a development program of this nature, which is undergoing a major transition from research and small plant engineering to a full-scale engineering program, it is impossible for us at this time to foresee the advances that will accrue from our activities

We can be reasonably certain, however, that some of our engineering operations will reach a point where the information we acquire will need to be tested in prototype plants in order to accurately determine operating characteristics and economic parameters. We believe it would be inappropriate to attempt to make decisions concerning the need for legislation relating to the construction and field operation of plants based on the incomplete data presently available, particularly with these two large studies outstanding.

The only reasonable approach to this situation is to continue our examination of the President's program and then make our decisions when we can clearly identify the requirement for a plant or plants. that show great promise of carrying out the mandate of the Congress. This approach will also enable us to locate these plants where the fresh water they produce can be utilized by a city or a community. We have clearly identified the need of developing a new position to participate more fully with other Government agencies as we explore the potential utilization of desalination processes to combat pollution and acid mine water problems.

President Johnson has stated on a number of occasions that it is his intention to share desalting technology with other nations. That is one of the reasons for the conference this fall.

To carry out the wishes of the President we will have to engage in greater participation in enginering and feasibility studies in for eign lands. Through a joint effort with the Department of State we may be able to assist the Department of State to further the administration's foreign policy goals through a contribution of services. To be perfectly candid, I would be less than honest if I told this committee that S. 24 as submitted contains all the authority we may require to reach our objectives. As the program unfolds we may see the need for additional legislation in order to meet unanticipated problems or take advantage of new developments.

In closing, I would like to summarize by saying that the steady progress that has been made during the first 12 years of the desalting program has laid a firm foundation for the program which President Johnson is now proposing.

The program has received a fine response from industry and the research community.

I would like to comment here that I think the response and performance of our research contracts and plant contract has been almost uniformly outstanding.

On the horizon we can now see the possibility that this technology will economically serve the water needs of a number of areas both at home and around the world. With your assistance and guidance, we will do everything within our capabilities to realize that objective in a timely fashion.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to close simply by saying that I feel we have a strong team in operation. Director Di Luzio has recently revised his organization and added a few new people with new competence to the Office of Saline Water. I feel that there are big things in the offing and with the continued support of this committee and the continued support of the Appropriations Committee for the funds we will need, we can achieve the goals that have been put before us by this committee.

Senator ANDERSON. Mr. Secretary, I want to compliment you on a very fine statement as well as a very fine attitude.

On page 12 you refer to the contracts you are entering into with the Metropolitan Water District of Los Angeles. I think the first published document on the use of nuclear energy on the desalination of water was an AEC publication in 1955, a paper written by Phillin Hammond, who was then an obscure worker at Los Alamos but who did understand there was a desire to go along in that direction. He pointed out what it would take to get potable water down to a reasonable cost in a plant of this size. Of course, he predicted at that time there was no possibility of building that sort of plant for many years.

At that time, some of us, in discussing it, thought it would be 20 years and I am happy you have the time cut in half. The study is going on and being very well handled.

Then, on page 13 you refer to the fine relations you have with the Atomic Energy Commission. As you know, some of those people connected with the Commission are longtime associates of Senator Jackson and myself on the Joint Committee on Atomic Energy and I can assure you from conversations with them that they are as pleased with your cooperation as you are with theirs.

I have questions I would like to ask that might better be directed to Mr. Di Luzio at the close of the hearing. I want to congratulate you

on the start you are making, on the dedication of your whole team, and the personal leadership you have given to it.

Senator JACKSON. I merely want to associate myself with the remarks of the chairman of the subcommittee. I think the relationship with the AEC is an excellent one. It is obvious that the two great agencies have to work hand in hand with the primary responsibility in the Interior Department. I am delighted this relationship is working so well.

Senator Anderson and I, knowing the Commission and the Department of the Interior, are not at all surprised.

Senator ANDERSON. Senator Moss?

Senator Moss. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a fine progress report and I appreciate the distance we have come already and the prediction of acceleration in this research field and I look forward to hearing the additional witnesses we are going to have.

Senator ANDERSON. Senator Burdick?

Senator BURDICK. No questions.

Senator ANDERSON. Senator Allott?
Senator ALLOTT. No questions.

Senator ANDERSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. I appreciate your being here.

(The prepared statement of Secretary Udall follows:)

STATEMENT OF HON. STEWART L. UDALL, Secretary, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, we appear before you today, primarily to review progress in desalting under the expanded authorization provided by Public Law 87-295 which was approved by this committee in 1961. As you know, President Johnson has maintained a longtime personal interest in the desalting program. At his request, we have developed the accelerated program to advance desalting technology which we will describe in detail to the committee at this hearing.

Before beginning this report, I would like to introduce to those members who do not already know him, Frank C. Di Luzio, our new Director of the Office of Saline Water. We are pleased that we have secured a man of Frank's ability to direct this program. He is both an engineer and a proven administrator. He brings to the Department's desalting program an invaluable background in guiding research in nuclear and space technology. He comes to us from the Senate Committee on Aeronautical and Space Sciences, where he served as staff director. I will review program developments to date and Frank will go into the details of the new program.

As the program of the Office of Saline Water has developed over the past dozen years, many strands of data have been woven together to form a web of information. The sum of technical information that has been acquired is reflected in a series of studies and reports of a number of committees and organizations.

The 1961 Report of the Senate Select Committee on National Water Resources states: "The importance of Government policy in meeting the water resources problems ahead cannot be denied. The recommendations which follow are based on the committee's belief that future demands can be met best by finding the proper combination of (a) construction program; (b) scientific research; (c) development of known technical methods; and (d) strengthening of Government policies affecting water development and use. Such a combination of efforts cannot be achieved overnight, and will require the combined efforts of the legislative and executive branches of the Federal Government, as well as a continuation and strengthening of work in these fields of State and local governments and private enterprise."

All of the foregoing combination listed by the committee to meet future water demands are directly applicable and are being utilized in the saline water program, but even more important is the successful working partnership the Office of Saline Water has formed with private industry to advance desalting technology.