That is correct; is it not?

Mr. OGG. I believe it is a regional arrangement of the type contemplated by the United Nations Charter. Whether it is intended to be such an agreement is a matter for the signatory countries to determine; whether it is to be recognized legally as such is a question for the United Nations Organization to determine.

Senator DONNELL. That is all, Mr. Ogg.

Mr. KLINE. Mr. Chairman, would it be all right for me to sum marize an attitude here and expression of attitude on the part of the American Farm Bureau Federation concisely?

The CHAIRMAN. If it does not provoke too much discussion.
Mr. KLINE. I withdraw.

The CHAIRMAN. No; go ahead and make it.

Mr. KLINE. I do not know about the discussion. I can guarantee nothing.

The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead.

Mr. KLINE. In the first place, the objective of the pact is collective security. To a group of farmers, it seems that there is a real significance in an article like article 3 in that it is designed to mean something further than what we already have.

It is based on confidence and trust. It is not based on a quibbling with regard to the exact meaning of the legal definition. It is, after all, an over-all approach to the problem of collective security based upon confidence and trust.

It is accepted with a certain enthusiasm in Europe. I have been to Europe 4 out of the last 5 years. For each of the 3 years prior to this year, I found a very considerable unrest, and one of its major features was the fear that, while the United States was now there, when the zero moment came, if it came, we might be gone.

It does seem to me that there is here the intention to create a confidence that these nations in the North Atlantic Pact would be with each other when the zero hour came.

COLLECTIVE SELF-DEFENSE

It is, then, based on the assumption that we can create the atmosphere in which the third world war does not come along. We have had two just in my lifetime. We sort of backed into them. A little at a time we were dragged into them. Now we say, "That approach did not work. Let us try now to get together all these magnificent resources, all these grand determinations in the minds of the men in the free nations and let us see if that will not work."

That to me is the meaning of the Atlantic Pact. It is not a thing of quibbling about the exact definition. It is a matter of committing the United States of America to the purposes of collective security with, to be sure, that intention and determination understood, that you will act upon the basis of your best judgment as problems arise from time to time that require decisions.

But you have committed yourself to the proposition. That seems to me to be a very great and very significant thing in the proposal of the North Atlantic Pact.

That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much for your testimony. We thank you for your good statement.

We have one more witness, Mr. McKee.

STATEMENT OF FREDERICK C. MCKEE, NATIONAL CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL AFFAIRS

Mr. MCKEE. Gentlemen, I will make this very brief. You have my statement. I know you want to get away.

The CHAIRMAN. You have been here all day; you have been patient. We want to hear you. Tell the reporter your name and your business. Mr. MCKEE. Frederick C. McKee, Pittsburgh businessman, national chairman of the Committee on National Affairs, with its headquarters in New York.

DEFERRENT EFFECT OF TREATY

I believe that an Atlantic Pact would probably have prevented the First and Second World Wars and that the Atlantic Pact can probably prevent a third world war if its principles are applied throughout the world.

The Kaiser apparently never thought that the British would fight to defend Belgium and France. Had he imagined that both Britain and the United States would ultimately be involved, he would probably not have taken the risk of a war of conquest to satisfy his personal ambitions. After Britain and France had sacrificed the well-equipped army and air force of Czechoslovakia at Munich, Hitler apparently never thought that they would fight to defend Poland.

Mr. Winston Churchill is reported to have said that there were at least six times that Hitler could have been stopped short of a world war. We can see now where, over and over again, the failure of the democracies to take adequate cooperative action against aggression encouraged the Axis to think that they could get away with new seizures.

For lack of an Atlantic Pact, the democracies allowed Hitler to overrun one potential ally after another until at last the Axis, in control of most of Europe and China, felt strong enough to attack us.

COMPATIBILITY WITH UNITED NATIONS CHARTER

Some critics of the Atlantic Pact have argued that it is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations. I am national treasurer of the American Association for the United Nations, and I firmly believe that not only is the Atlantic Pact in keeping with the spirit of article 51 of the Charter, but that such defense pacts are essential until the United Nations can have its own international police force, superior in strength to that of any other nation.

MILITARY ASSISTANCE PROGRAM

Some have argued against the pact on the basis that we cannot af ford the rearmament involved. Certainly a pact without rearmament is better than no pact at all. But the proposals for rearmament represent less than 3 percent of our total budget, less than five-eighths of 1 percent of our national income, and less than one-half of 1 percent of the cost of World War II.

Certainly this is a very small premium to pay for insurance to help protect what we have invested in Europe, what we have at home, and our very lives. The further away our front lines of defense, the fewer

Americans would die in a war of guided missiles and atomic bombs. We could not exist for long as a North American island of 175,000,000 people in a world dominated by 2,000,000,000 Communists and slaves. If our potential allies were sufficiently armed to render improbable further Soviet aggression, the increase in confidence, international and domestic trade, and security values would probably produce increased tax revenue far in excess of the expenditure involved.

PROVOCATIVENESS OF TREATY

Some of the critics of the pact have argued by some strange logic that the Atlantic Pact would bring on a third world war. This same argument was used against Greek-Turkish aid and ECA. On the contrary, whenever we have stood firm without potential allies Soviet aggression has halted, and where we have procrastinated it has moved forward.

I believe that part of the fuzzy thinking about the pact arises from an illusion that we are living in a state of peace, whereas we are actually not even living in an armistice. To a considerable extent we are living in a state of war-a hot war in Greece and China and a cold war in other parts of the world. Whether this condition can be converted into a state of peace will depend largely on whether we and our allies are so united and armed that the ruthless realists in the Kremlin will not risk new attempts at conquest.

We have studied this problem. Our executive committee has sent to a number of prominent Americans and has received letters from 120 of them endorsing the pact; and that has been sent to each Member of the Senate and was reprinted in the Herald Tribune and other papers.

The question in dealing with these men too often has been deferred. There is the question, Shall we irritate him? The question was said. about Hitler; give him each time what he wants. Each time he wanted just one more country.

We will not read what they said. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf; Stalin has made his statements; Mao Tse-Tung in China has made his statement. We will not take these men at their word that they have no other ambition than complete world domination and conquest.

On the other hand, they are realists, and we have seen that where there is a united effort they have stopped.

The statement is made about fanatics. Will they see the facts? That same thing might be argued against any insane person. We do not give way to them. We get together sufficient force that they can be restrained.

I think that we are at a very critical point. I think that the failure to ratify this pact will be as great a disaster as Munich.

Thank you..

The CHAIRMAN. We want to thank you. I have no questions. Senator Vandenberg?

Senator VANDENBERG. No.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator George?

Senator GEORGE. No.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Donnell?

Senator DONNELL. Just on one point alone. Your testimony is titled "Testimony of Frederick C. McKee, National Chairman, Com

mittee on National Affairs." Are you appearing here for the Committee on National Affairs, Mr. McKee?

Mr. McKEE. That is right.

Senator DONNELL. You are the national chairman of that committee?

Mr. McKEE. That is right.

MEMBERSHIP OF COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL AFFAIRS

Senator DONNELL. How large a membership, and where is it located? Mr. McKEE. We have an executive committee of about 20, with headquarters in New York. We do not have a large membership as you would call in thousands throughout the country. It is made up of many of the people who are active in the Committee to Defend America by Aiding the Allies, in which I was the national treasurer. That committee had about 900 branches and sent millions of petitions to Congress. This committee is composed of leaders.

Senator DONNELL. Wait a minute. You mean this executive committee?

Mr. MCKEE. Yes.

Senator DONNELL. The committee of 20 in New York City?

Mr. McKEE. Yes; that is right.

Senator DONNELL. Is composed of what, you say?

Mr. MCKEE. That is composed of people who have been active in the Committee to Defend America and other committees of that type. We have not attempted to get membership running into the hundreds of thousands.

Senator DONNELL. Mr. McKee, if it is agreeable to the chairman, would you be kind enough to file for the record here, to be incorporated in the transcript of these proceedings, a list of the members of the executive committee?

Mr. McKEE. I will be glad to do that.

Senator DONNELL. Do you know what the total membership of the entire organization is?

Mr. McKEE. I cannot give you that exactly.

Senator DONNELL. I do not want it exactly.

thousand.

Mr. McKEE. It is less than a thousand.

Senator DONNELL. Is it as many as 500?

Is it as many as a

Mr. McKEE. I will not say that. I will have to check it.

Senator DONNELL. Would you be kind enough to put that information in also, and please also state the geographical distribution by States? Would you do that, please?

Mr. McKEE. I will give you a list of that.

(The list is as follows:)

COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL AFFAIRS

OFFICERS AND EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE

Frederick C. McKee, Oliver Building, Pittsburgh, Pa.
Richard J. Cronan, 40 Wall Street, New York City.

Westmore Willcox, Jr., 68 William Street, New York City.

Arthur J. Goldsmith, 100 East Fiftieth Street, New York City.
Donald H. Aiken, 102 East Twenty-second Street, New York City.

Dr. Henry A. Atkinson, 170 East Sixty-fourth Street, New York City.

William H. Baldwin, 205 East Forty-second Street, New York City.
Courtenay Barber, Jr., 29 South La Salle Street, Chicago, Ill.
Augustus W. Bennet, Brewster Building, Newburgh, N. Y.

G. Barry Bingham, Louisville Courier-Journal, Louisville, Ky.

Dr. L. M. Birkhead, 137 East Fifty-seventh Street, New York City.
Anthony A. Bliss, 15 Broad Street, New York City.

Mrs. Raymond Brown, Women's Action Committee, 1 East Fifty-seventh Street, New York City.

Leo Casey, 100 Buell Street, Burlington, Vt.

William T. Cobb, 11 Gay Street, New York City.

Russell W. Davenport, 270 Park Avenue, New York City.

Clark M. Eichelberger, 45 East Sixty-fifth Street, New York City.

J. Lester Eisner, 22 East Forty-seventh Street, New York City.

Maj. George Fielding Eliot, New York Post, 75 West Street, New York City. Irving M. Engel, 7 East Forty-fourth Street, New York City.

Raymond S. Fanning, 165 Broadway, New York City.

Ralph Foss, 21 East Eleventh Street, New York City.

W. W. Grant, Equitable Building, Denver, Colo.

Mrs. J. Borden Harriman, 3130 P Street NW., Washington, D. C.
Mrs. Robert Lehman, 625 Park Avenue, New York City.

Goodhue Livingston, Jr., 90 John Street, New York City.

Cord Meyer, Jr., 7 East Twelfth Street, New York City.

J. A. Migel, 24 West Fortieth Street, New York City.

Edgar Ansel Mowrer, 3301 Garfield Street NW., Washington, D. C.
Milton I. Newman, 29 Broadway, New York City.

Mrs. Arthur Paul, Women's Action Committee, 1 East Fifty-seventh Street, New York City.

Mrs. Ruth Bryan Owen Rohde, Homewood, Ossining, N. Y.

James N. Rosenberg, 27 West Sixty-seventh Street, New York City.

Mrs. Tobe D. Rosenblum, 243 East Sixty-first Street, New York City.

F. E. Schuchman, Homestead Valve Manufacturing Co., Coraopolis, Pa.

Mrs. Kenneth F. Simpson, 109 East Ninety-first Street, New York City.
Fred Smith, 122 East Forty-second Street, New York City.
Roderick Stephens, 274 Madison Avenue, New York City.
Barent Ten Eyck, 60 Wall Street, New York City.

Mrs. Dana Converse Backus, 1158 Fifth Avenue, New York City.

Mrs. Monroe Percy Bloch, 49 East Ninety-sixth Street, New York City.

Mrs. Arthur M. de Bebian, 32 Amhurst Road, Great Neck, Long Island, N. Y. Miss Mary Dingman, 135 East Fifty-second Street, New York City.

John Ellis, 15 Broad Street, New York City.

Mrs. L. Henry Fradkin, 36 Lloyd Road, Montclair, N. J.

Oscar W. Haussermann, 15 State Street, Boston, Mass.

Mrs. Norman M. Littell, 4101 Lorcom Lane, Arlington, Va.

Newbold Morris, 52 Wall Street, New York City.

Mrs. Geoffrey O'Hara, Quaker Hill, Pawling, N. Y.

Mrs. William Dick Sporborg, Oliver Cromwell Hotel, 12 West Seventy-second Street, New York City.

Mrs. DeWitt Stetten, 850 Park Avenue, New York City.

FAMILIARITY WITH TREATY

Senator DONNELL. One final question, and that is this. Did your executive committee meet and authorize you to present this statement? Mr. McKEE. Yes; they did.

Senator DONNELL. When was that meeting held?

Mr. McKEE. That meeting was held a week ago last Thursday. Senator DONNELL. And was a copy of the Atlantic Pact exhibited to that committee at that time?

Mr. McKEE. I happened to be in Chicago on business. The other officers were there; that is, the secretary and treasurer. The Atlantic Pact had been under discussion by us for some time, both before and after it was actually published. That is, working on the basis of the newspaper reports.

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