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any case he was a man with whom one could talk things over. I was also told that Seyss-Inquart was a diligent church-goer. But I knew nothing more about Seyss-Inquart personally; I did not know him personally before his appointment as Minister.

The President: Was this appointment of Seyss-Inquart a difficult problem?

The Witness: It was not only a difficult problem, it was directly caused by the circumstances which prevailed at that time in the Chancellery on the Ballhausplatz. The President could not act otherwise, under the burden of saving Austria from the worst that could happen, namely the entry of the German troops which would be looked upon as enemies and preventing a total war. Vienna would have been "bombed to bits" by the Germans.

The Prosecuting Attorney: Had you not previously inquired of the Western Powers as to whether you should consent to the Berchtesgaden Agreement?

The Witness: The Chancellor was continually in contact with the Ambassadors of the Western Powers, and continually drew their attention to Austria's difficult position in face of the Hitler Reich threat to Austria; but he found little understanding of the matter. The leaders of the Western Powers only saw the difficulties of their own countries. At the eleventh hour Mussolini refused to be consulted. There was also no real interest on the part of England. We felt ourselves to be completely abandoned by Europe.

The President: Did the defendant, who was Finance Minister at that time, attend the Ministerial Council Meetings of Dr. Schuschnigg's Cabinet?

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[graphic]

The Witness: Yes.

The President: Do you know whether, and to what extent the individual Ministers were informed of the events at Berchtesgaden and of Hitler's demands?

The Witness: I can make no statement about this, I do not know. In this connection I would remark that, in my position as President I could not take part in the meetings of the Ministerial Council. In any case I did not discuss the Berchtesgaden Agreement and its consequences with the defendant.

say therefore if the Defendant was well informed on this point or not.

The President: What can you remember regarding the events of Friday, 11.3.1938. What took place then in the Chancellery, what were your own experiences at that time?

The Witness: I must admit that I was not kept informed by the Government of the events of that time relative to the difficult

situation in which Austria had found herself at that time. I was not informed of all the events which took place in the sphere of Foreign policy. Of course I could have done nothing about it. The consequence of not having been informed about everything was that I was somewhat surprised at the terrible foreign situation, which threatened to become acute. As Schuschnigg was in contact with the Western Powers, as with Paris and London, I did not consider the matter to be so very threatening and tragic. The President: What have you to say regarding the plebiscite? The Witness: This plebiscite was suggested to the Chancellor by France. The Chancellor regarded this plebiscite as a good safeguard for Austria. It could then have been publicly referred to that Austria stands steadfast by reason of the people's vote. Austria must then have remained a State. But this plebiscite was arranged too late. Had it been carried out as I continually urged-perhaps in 1934 or 1935, things might have been different. Had it been carried out after the murder of Dr. Dollfuss, that would "probably" still have been the right time. But I even regard this "probably" as doubtful. For I was told that already at that time the situation in Austria was such that a plebiscite might possibly have led to armed conflict between the parties, i.e., to civil war. For Austria was at that time already severely infected with National Socialism. A plebiscite at that time would perhaps have been all the more likely to bring about the intervention of Hitler Germany.

Thus, at the beginning of the week to 11.3.1938, the problem of the plebiscite came up. At that time the Chancellor visited me with the Foreign Minister-other men also called on me in this connection-and was of the opinion that a plebiscite was necessary for the moral security of the State. I naturally agreed with pleasure, and would remark in this connection that this plebiscite must be formally held by the President.

The Chancellor therefore visited me with the Foreign Minister and I agreed to the plebiscite. The Chancellor then went to Innsbruck and there, in his party circle, in the "Patriotic Front" made the speech showing the Austrian point of view which is so well known to all.

He thereupon returned to Vienna and from this moment on began the counter-thrusts on the part of the National Socialists who already felt themselves protected by the military might proclaimed by Hitler. Thus this prohibited National Socialist Party had already made itself manifest to the outside world. Austria was already undermined by the Nazis. There was now much correspondence back and forth between the Chancellor and

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Hitler. Schuschnigg tried to find some kind of way out. Schuschnigg insisted in carrying out the plebiscite. In the meantime the events of 11.3.1938 took place. With regard to these events of 11.3.1938 I should like to say that I still believed, "What can happen to us, at all events we are assured of the protection of the Great Powers and of Italy, Hitler will not dare to bring us to our knees by armed force." But in the end the National Socialist revolution within the country, strengthened by the consciousness that the Nazis were certain of military help from Germany, was not to be checked. This National Socialist Revolution within the country grew and grew and resulted finally in Hitler's military ultimatum.

On Friday 2.3.1938 about midday, I knew nothing about a military ultimatum, indeed of any ultimatum at all. About midday I drove home to my modest dinner. While at home I received a telephone message from the Foreign Minister that Germany had just sent an ultimatum to the Austrian Government which demanded the appointment of Seyss-Inquart as Chancellor, i.e., the formation of a new Government under the leadership of SeyssInquart. The ultimatum probably also demanded the abandoning of the plebiscite proposed for Sunday. The plebiscite was to take place under National Socialist direction. This ultimatum had, I think, no time limit. This ultimatum was given to the Schuschnigg Government and not to the head of the State. Naturally Dr. Schuschnigg did not wish to bear the responsibility alone and I was therefore informed and asked to come to the Chancellery. I arrived at the Chancellery at 2 p. m. and was personally informed of this ultimatum. I said "that is quite impossible, we will not be coerced, we have 'Protecting Powers', for example in Geneva, and we would like to know what they will say to it." We immediately informed the Western Powers about the ultimatum. For this purpose Ambassador Ludwig communicated by telephone with Rome, Paris, and London. Teletype messages were sent. We wanted to discover the frame of mind of the government circles of the Western Powers. I said the ultimatum was to be refused. That appears to have been done by the Government in some form or other, whereupon the German Reich presented a military ultimatum. This military ultimatum contained the same demand as the first one. This ultimatum was addressed to the head of the State, i.e., to me.

The President: When was this military ultimatum presented? The Witness: In the afternoon round about tea-time. This ultimatum I also refused. Then the Secretary of State, Dr. Keppler arrived and informed him that I was refusing the ulti

matum. A second military, ultimatum was then presented, that was at approximately 6.30 p.m. Major General Muff brought me this second ultimatum. The two military ultimatums had a time limit up to 7.30 p.m. After the expiration of this time limit the entry of German troops into Austria was threatened-there were 200,000 men on the Western border from Bregenz to Passau. We were threatened with the German troops obtaining the requirements of the ultimatum by force. I informed the two gentlemen, Dr. Keppler and Major General Muff (I was on good terms with the latter) that I refused the ultimatum. I condoled with Major General Muff that he was the one to have been chosen to hand me the ultimatum. I refused both ultimatums and told the two gentlemen that Austria alone determines who is to be the head of the State in Austria, as is also the case in Luxembourg, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, and also in the Scandinavian countries, and why should we not be granted this right, and that I insist upon Austria herself and her functionaries alone determining the composition of the Government. That was noted by the two gentlemen. I naturally informed the Chancellor of this. There was continual contact between me and the Chancellor during the critical hours of 11.3.1938, in fact until the morning of 12.3.1938. There was also continual contact between us and Dr. Guido Schmidt. After Dr. Schuschnigg had delivered his well known farewell speech in the evening, he was still busy with the carrying on of the Government until the formation of a new Government. Dr. Schuschnigg had already told me of his resignation before making this radio speech.

The President: Did you know this radio speech?

The Witness: I did not hear it, I was told about it later on. The President: The Chancellor spoke as follows in this speech: "The President has charged me to inform the Austrian people that we yield to force". Do you remember this passage?

The Witness: It is quite out of the question that I could have given such an order. I have never said anything regarding the contents of this speech. He may have drawn his conclusions from the consultation I had with the Chancellor-he did say that we must say that we must yield to force. I gave no instructions whatsoever as to this speech of the Chancellor. Only one thing occurred. Dr. Schuschnigg told me already in the afternoon that he intended to resign. This resignation was, I think, made known by radio. That must have been about 2 or 3 p.m. It is possible, however, that his resignation was not notified by radio, but that the countermanding of the plebiscite was made known. But in any case the Press was advised of the Chancellor's resignation. I

said at the time "things have not gone so far that we must capitulate".

The President: Did the Chancellor say to you the second time that he would make his resignation public?

The Witness: No. According to old custom the Press is advised. I would state that I did not know that the Chancellor himself would speak. Reverting to the Chancellor's radio speech, in which he refers to an order given by me that we must yield to force, I would remark, as previously mentioned, that this is the conclusion drawn by him from the conversations with me and Dr. Guido Schmidt. He considered himself morally justified, as Europe had left us in the lurch. The conversations with Paris, London, and Rome continued in the meantime, but with no results. Mussolini could not be contacted. Paris said "we have trouble enough with the new Cabinet crisis home". It was just such a situation as would have led to a conflict over Austria with the outbreak of a second World War. This dreadful situation applied to the whole of Europe. Since I had no help whatsoever in either domestic or foreign policy there was only one solution possible, that a Chancellor be appointed who would be acceptable as negotiator by the opposite side, i. e., by the government of the Reich. The President: Thus the position at that time was such that the Austrian State could be said to be in a state of emergency, on the brink of war?

The Witness: Yes, it certainly was.

The President: Were you personally, as head of the State, yourself in a state of peril on account of this emergency? Were you aware of the internal situation during these critical days? Did you know what was then happening in the streets of Vienna?

The Witness: Yes, I was occasionally informed as to what was happening in the streets of Vienna. I also knew that the Chancellery had been closed by the Nazis. I even knew more than that. I knew that a deputation of Nazi rebels had been admitted to the Chancellery; but I only knew later on that they had been admitted to the Chancellery by Seyss-Inquart, who was Minister of the Interior and had been given executive powers. I knew what was happening in the streets from reports.

The President: Did you not, as head of the State, have the feeling of yourself being in a serious position?

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The Witness: To be sure.

The President: Did you have the feeling that you were still free in your decisions and acts?

The Witness: In a serious situation one is no longer free. It is coercion. Thus I undertook this reforming of the government

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