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So we see indications that some of the major traditional heroin dealers, as well as some new rather well-equipped and educated chemical background types are getting into this business as well. It isn't just a temporary miniature investment for some what we would consider minor league drug traffickers.

Mr. NELLIS. Mr. Bensinger, what is the price of PCP at the street level these days? Take any city. Take New York or Chicago. Mr. Smith, perhaps you could help us.

Mr. SMITH. PCP right now will sell for a pound in Los Angeles at $10,000.

Mr. NELLIS. A pound?

Mr. SMITH. A pound of PCP crystals. Liquid PCP in an 8-ounce bottle will run between $1,000 and $1,500.

Mr. NELLIS. There aren't many sales made of those quantities at the retail or street level, are there?

Mr. SMITH. No; at the street level, again, we don't really get down to the street level, but you can buy probably 2 or 3 joints of PCP for somewhere between $5 and $10, I would say.

Mr. NELLIS. What I am trying to get at is the extent to which high school students or junior high school students would have sufficient funds with which to buy a joint or two of parsley inundated with PCP. What would it cost them? About $2 or $3?

Mr. SMITH. I would say that would be a good estimate. Again, it depends on how available the product is in their given area.

It would vary in even areas of Los Angeles County from the north of the county to the south end of the county. It depends on how active the laboratories are in the area. A lot of PCP manufactured in Los Angeles is distributed outside of California. It goes to Kansas City, Detroit, and may even end up here in the Washington metropolitan area. There is really no pattern.

Mr. NELLIS. Dr. Petersen, I asked earlier if there was any reasonable explanation for the preponderance of white abusers of PCP. Do you have any ideas on that?

Dr. PETERSEN. Mr. Nellis, we could say it is a fact that throughout the history of drug abuse in the last decade, hallucinogens, which in one sense you could classify PCP as being, have not been popular among minority groups. They have not sought the kind of mind expansion, the kind of psychedelic effects. That was true of LSD and it is apparently true of PCP as well.

For example, less than 10 percent of the PCP users in the National Youth Polydrug Study were black. Actually about 4 percent black and a roughly equal percentage were Hispanic. So it is a fact of life. Why is it so is a more difficult question to answer. It is pretty much a matter of speculation. The effects are just not as appealing as they are to more middle-class white kids.

Mr. NELLIS. I have one last question, Mr. Chairman.

I note the use of the word "treatment" in all of your statements. I would like to know what specific treatment, if any, is available to the PCP abuser. I am sure that if he is suffering physical effects the doctors can deal with those. What are we talking about in terms of treatment? Are you talking about counseling largely?

Dr. CZECHOWICZ. Not necessarily. NIDA funds a national network of treatment through the States under the statewide services contracting mechanism. These Single-State Agencies must give priority to abusers of certain high-risk categories of drugs and compulsive users of drugs of any kind.

The treatment programs that we support provide a variety of treatment approaches to people, young people particularly, with drug abuse problems. The treatments can include such things as individual therapy or counseling, group therapy, family counseling alternatives programs, crisis intervention programs. We have emergency room capability in some of our programs. Treatment programs are required to have an agreement with a hospital in the community for the provision of emergency services.

Mr. NELLIS. Am I correct in my assumption that there is no comparable treatment such as methadone in the case of heroin? There is no blocking agent, there is no physical means of treating a PCP user as you might have with heroin or some of the other drugs? Is that a correct assumption?

Dr. CZECHOWICZ. There is not a specific antidote, but there have been treatments developed for the treatment of acute overdose: To detoxify the individual, by acidifying the urine, giving the client amonium chloride, and continuous gastric lavage, you can remove PCP from the system.

Mr. NELLIS. Is that an effective treatment in your opinion?

Dr. CZECHOWICZ. Yes, it is, for the treatment of acute overdose. Mr. NELLIS. Is there ongoing research for treating PCP users medically in such a way that repeat use might be avoided?

Dr. CZECHOWICZ. I am not sure what you mean exactly

Mr. DOGOLOFF. Are you talking about an antibuse-like substance? Mr. NELLIS. Yes, is there research going on?

Dr. CZECHOWICZ. As part of the research task force at NIDA, we have identified areas that need research, and there has been some interest in developing a protocol to look at specific antidotes for PCP. Perhaps Dr. Petersen could address that a little further.

Mr. NELLIS. I think it would be useful, Dr. Petersen, with the permission of the Chair, if NIDA could submit to the committee some information and respect to this question.

Dr. PETERSEN. I am sorry, Mr. Nellis, the question of what?

Mr. NELLIS. The question of blocking agents, some medical approach to the treatment of PCP use that would discourage repetition. Dr. PETERSEN. Very briefly, a great deal is not known

Mr. GILMAN. Without objection, it is so ordered.

Dr. PETERSEN. Very briefly, a great deal is not yet known about the neuropsychological actions of PCP. Part of the difficulty in developing specific blocking agents is one of understanding the mechanisms of action, and how it might be, as you suggest, blocked. That is certainly one of the priority areas we are encouraging the research community to pursue. Whether it is likely to come to pass is a more difficult question to answer, because at this point our knowledge of the basic way in which the drug functions is pretty rudimentary.

[The information referred to follows:]

BLOCKING AGENTS FOR PHENCYCLIDINE

Some thought has been given to the possibility of the use of cholinergic agents to block the effects of phencyclidine, itself a central anticholinergic agent. However, these drugs often have side effects or do not affect the central nervous system. To date the effects of these potential blocking agents have not been studied in animals or humans.

What has proven a more productive line of scientific exploration has been work supported by NIDA's Division of Research to study the disposition of PCP in the human body and then to examine treatment alternatives. Currently, the Division is sponsoring studies in animals to determine the disposition of phencyclidine, then studies will begin in humans. In addition, an evaluation of the most widely respected treatment regimen-which includes acidification of the blood and then subsequently the urine and washing out of the stomach. These techniques are used to detoxify a user in the acute phase of phencyclidine intoxification and are being studied under contract to NIDA at the Children's Hospital in Detroit, Mich.

Mr. NELLIS. Mr. Bensinger, I have been very impressed with the work of the local metropolitan area's task force on PCP. They have done a marvelous job, I am sure you would agree, in interdicting laboratories, and putting a stop to the tremendous increase in the use of PCP in this area.

Will you tell us whether or not this task force approach, which involves DEA, the local police, in a cooperative approach, is being employed elsewhere in the country?

Mr. BENSINGER. Yes, chief counsel, it is. And I think you should know as well that the State of Maryland as well as other States are considering increasing penalties, and legislative initiatives as well. The task force approach has been working in Washington; a number of seizures have been made. We expect similar results in the 4-month accelerated program now underway in conjunction with State and local police in many other metropolitan area jurisdictions.

Mr. NELLIS. Thank you; thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. GILMAN. The gentleman's time has expired. The gentleman from California, Mr. Dornan.

Mr. DORNAN. Mr. Smith, what is your first name?
Mr. SMITH. James, sir.

Mr. DORNAN. Where is your office in Los Angeles?

Mr. SMITH. In the World Trade Center, sir.

Mr. DORNAN. Is that one of your offices next to mine on the 14th floor

of the Federal building? Is that a branch office?

Mr. SMITH. Are you in the Federal building out by the veterans cemetery?

Mr. DORNAN. Yes.

Mr. SMITH. That is the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Mr. DORNAN. There is a new drug enforcement office on the 14th floor, one of the 4 floors used by the FBI. They have the top 3 floors and one-half of the 14th. It says "Drug Enforcement Administration" on the door. They have been in there about 6 months. Are you familiar with that office?

Mr. SMITH. No, sir, I am not. We have a DEA-FBI task force in our building.

Mr. DORNAN. I inquired there the other day if they were aware of the PCP aspects of the particularly violent murder in Santa Monica. Are you familiar with the Zimmerman murder of a couple of months ago?

Mr. SMITH. I believe I read about it in the papers, where a young boy and girl were killed.

Mr. DORNAN. Yes, they were horribly hacked to death by hammer and knife, the young girl 12 or 13, was raped, and literally slashed from neck to groin with a knife, and the young boy still had the hammer claw buried in his head when the boy's father discovered him. This burglar turned psychomurderer had worked the Los Angeles coastline area for many years, he was a multiple offender, had served time and had added PCP to his twisted mental condition before this particular burglary turned into a nightmarish and ghoulish type murder.

Has this kind of incident with PCP started to appear more and more, where offenders in other areas of crime suddenly begin to escalate their level of violence?

. Mr. SMITH. Yes, it has. There is one specific case where a juvenile gang in the east Los Angeles area had a PCP laboratory going and when the Los Angeles County deputy sheriffs attempted to seize the laboratory, one deputy sheriff was killed with his own revolver. We have had instances where the chemicals are being used as weapons against officers, where they try to throw them in the officers' faces.

There are all types of violence now in California, escalating with the use of PCP and the manufacture of PCP. We are seeing shooting incidents now, where we have never seen them before.

Mr. DORNAN. The sheriff of Los Angeles has put out an article on PCP which I put in the Congressional Record the other day, on the escalation of criminal violence due to PCP use. There is something about PCP effects that I can't understand. Many people are familiar with this strange new television series, called "The Incredible Hulk," where the hero's power increases multifold by anger through adrenalin so much so that they have to replace the principal actor with a bodybuilding type photographic stand-in, muscular hulk.

Now, I notice the police are becoming frightened in the field of encountering PCP criminals, referring to them as "Hulks." They claim PCP will enhance some criminals' strength six or seven or even eight times. I don't understand the physiology involved here. A strength test generally is an accurate measure with little upper limit improvement. Any aspirant for the Olympics will tell you you can get his or her adrenalin up, and add maybe 10 percent to performance and thereby maybe break a world record. But how could a burglar who is certainly not an athlete, increase his strength seven or eightfold, to require seven or eight officers sitting on his body to suppress him? I don't understand the physiology involved here.

Has this wierd aspect been discussed in any of your drug research? Dr. PETERSEN. There are two aspects. One, is PCP is an anesthetic. It reduces the susceptibility to pain. So what is happening, apparently-we can only conjecture to some extent-there is this disinhibiting effect of the drug. There is also the fact that the police officer hitting him with a night stick doesn't have the impact-literally-on the individual's consciousness so that the individual can persist in behavior. He also has a great feeling of strength.

Certainly the large amounts of adrenalin under those circumstances can undoubtedly make a difference. Essentially what we have got is a

situation where most of the usual deterrents, such as force, are not effective to the same degree they would be in the individual if he felt the sensations of being curtailed in his behavior.

Mr. DORNAN. Could I ask you, Mr. Bensinger, is there a national bringing together of information that would show the impact of PCP on crime? Not just the youth problem, but all crime nationwide, where at least police departments have an opportunity to feed information into a central point?

Mr. BENSINGER. Congressman, there is tracking information with respect to PCP investigations that we have nationally, that could be dovetailed to national or UCR crime statistics and local police reports. That particular exercise has not been completed, but I think the question you asked very directly leads to an effort we will make and provide you with, with respect to seeing if we can find any correlation between PCP either abuses reported in NIDA's abuse system nationally, or in fact the investigative arrest statistics which would be developed nationally and relate both of those to both crimes of property and crimes of violence.

What our agents tell us is that PCP abusers in an arrest situation have become increasingly violent. You have made such representations yourself-I am glad you have joined this panel-about the problems in Los Angeles and in California dealing with that directly.

Perhaps NIDA has specific data that they want to comment on now, but I think your question is important. We do believe we can get this type of statistical comparison made.

Mr. DORNAN. When you discuss a drug that leads to violent behavior or complete spatial disorientation of users which might lead to traffic accident deaths, et cetera. Why are your death statistics so inaccurate or imprecise?

Mr. BENSINGER. Absolutely.

Mr. DORNAN. Congressman Mineta, in his testimony this morning, talked about 100 deaths a year. That sounds short by thousands. Could I get from your office, Mr. Bensinger, a figure for 1977 of the deaths reported in hospitals from PCP overdoses, and within reason, an estimate of how many police deaths or burglary deaths occurred that were related to PCP? Also, how many automobile accidents might be attributed to someone driving that is using PCP, and how many suicides might be attributed to PCP, so we might make that a part of our record?

Because I repeat the 100 figure Mr. Mineta gave might be way over 1,000. And even that might be a very low figure.

Mr. BENSINGER. We can project, based on our reporting information, what is likely to be reported in the present DAWN information system as deaths that would be directly PCP-related, and we can give you that type of guesstimate for 1978.

You are going to be talking with Dr. Frank Minyard this afternoon, and he personally is the chief medical office: of that important community, and he can describe the various degrees in which any single one factor may be decided by that chief medical officer to be the cause of death. I think that is what you are driving at. We are in a gray area, where the definition of what caused that particular fatality may not always be so readily apparent. But we will give you that projection.

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