Mr. DANIELSON. No further questions.

Thank you very much, sir.

Mr. SNYDER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. DANIELSON. Our next witness is Ms. Louise Gore, chairman, Maryland Bicentennial Commission, Annapolis, Md.

STATEMENT OF LOUISE GORE, CHAIRMAN, MARYLAND
BICENTENNIAL COMMISSION, ANNAPOLIS, MD.

Mr. DANIELSON. Thank you for waiting. I apologize for holding you so long. Do you have a prepared statement?

Ms. GORE. No, sir, I am reading from a resolution. I would like, if I may, to send you this resolution and a letter with it which will cover what I am going to say.

Mr. DANIELSON. Without objection, you may do so, and the resolution and letter will become a part of the record.

Ms. GORE. Mr. Chairman, and Ms. Jordan, my name is Louise Gore and I am the chairman of the Maryland Bicentennial Commission. I speak today for the Commission based on a resolution passed by our Commission on March 8, relative to the bill before us.

With me this afternoon is Mr. Ned Simms, our acting director of the Bicentennial and Miss Diane Eisenberg, who is his assistant. We have also on our staff, one more person, a secretary.

Mr. DANIELSON. May I interrupt? Are you engaged full-time in this activity?

Ms. GORE. No, sir. I am the chairman of the Commission and we do work around-every week, all the time.

Mr. DANIELSON. Do you have a full-time employee of any type? Ms. GORE. Mr. Ned Simms works for the Department which the Bicentennial Commission comes under, the State Department. And Miss Diane Eisenberg gives us full time as does her secretary.

Mr. DANIELSON. Are these two people working full time on the Bicentennial?

Ms. GORE. Mr. Ned Simms, the acting director, has three other commissions that he also has under his department.

Mr. DANIELSON. I see. Thank you very much.

Ms. GORE. We have great interest in what has been said all morning and we know the big problem that you have before you, getting us better organized from the Federal point of view. We appreciate the job ahead of you.

We are I am going to speak only on three points which affects us as we operate daily in Maryland. The resolution reads:

The Maryland Bicentennial Commission urges Congress to act rapidly in reorganizing the American Revolution Bicentennial Commission so that present confusion as to finances and purposes of the Bicentennial commemoration will be removed making it possible for the States to plan and organize successful programs.

Our first suggestion was that the Commission strongly urges our Commission, Maryland Commission, strongly urges that the current program of direct grants to State Bicentennial Commissions be continued.

The $45,000 per State per year direct grants is certainly not a great deal of money. However, we believe it is very important money. The

If I may, I would like to add two other remarks:

One, like Representative Mann, I have grave reservations about specified donations. I fear this would open the proverbial Pandora's box of State commissions and commissions competing against one another for corporation and other funds.

As Mr. Johnson pointed out, there must be a way for State officers to have an input into bicentennial planning.

For your consideration of these suggestions and for the opportunity to appear before you today, I am most appreciative.

Mr. DANIELSON. Thank you, Mr. Snyder. Are you, as executive director, are you a full-time employee of the Commission in Mississippi? Mr. SNYDER. Yes, sir, I am. I work out of the Mississippi Department of Archives and History.

Mr. DANIELSON. It is contemplated this office of executive director will continue throughout the Bicentennial celebration?

Mr. SNYDER. Yes, sir, it is.

Mr. DANIELSON. You are salaried in that?

Mr SNYDER. Yes, sir, and have a staff of one secretary.

Mr. DANIELSON. Do you have other demands upon your time, or is this your full-time work?

Mr. SNYDER. This is my full-time work.

Mr. DANIELSON. Thank you very much for your contribution. I want you to know we appreciate it.

Ms. Jordan?

Ms. JORDAN. I am wondering how we can get to the point you raise of the State commissions not being subject to review or control by ARBC in terms of its programs and expenditure of funds; that is, that ARBC cannot veto it.

When this bill envisions the creation of an all-powerful administrator, and his judgment becomes the final judgment, it would appear under this bill, in terms of what the plans of action may be for the States. Now he's given the right to promulgate regulations, and those regulations as promulgated by him could include Federal guidelines. They usually do. Do you have anything to offer then for this initial input by the States to the administrator?

Mr. SNYDER. Thank you, Ms. Jordan. I appreciate that question. This is one that we wrestled with today over dinner.

I personally, and I think that I speak for my colleagues in the Southeast, we do not mind guidelines in regulations. We want them. We expect them. Please don't give us millions of dollars and not give us any guidelines to use; otherwise there would be a run on the various commissions.

However, we want the authority and the power to decide how and when these funds should be expended. I think that the guidelines could be specific enough to exclude embarking on projects that are not in keeping with the thrust of the Bicentennial. In other words, we are against prior review, but we will gladly live within the guidelines that are provided us.

Of course, if anyone within our State should have objection to a specific program, I wouldn't have any objection to their having the right to appeal to the ARBA for some type of adjudication of the

matter.

Ms. JORDAN. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. DANIELSON. No further questions.

Thank you very much, sir.

Mr. SNYDER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. DANIELSON. Our next witness is Ms. Louise Gore, chairman, Maryland Bicentennial Commission, Annapolis, Md.

STATEMENT OF LOUISE GORE, CHAIRMAN, MARYLAND
BICENTENNIAL COMMISSION, ANNAPOLIS, MD.

Mr. DANIELSON. Thank you for waiting. I apologize for holding you so long. Do you have a prepared statement?

Ms. GORE. No, sir, I am reading from a resolution. I would like, if I may, to send you this resolution and a letter with it which will cover what I am going to say.

Mr. DANIELSON. Without objection, you may do so, and the resolution and letter will become a part of the record.

Ms. GORE. Mr. Chairman, and Ms. Jordan, my name is Louise Gore and I am the chairman of the Maryland Bicentennial Commission. I speak today for the Commission based on a resolution passed by our Commission on March 8, relative to the bill before us.

With me this afternoon is Mr. Ned Simms, our acting director of the Bicentennial and Miss Diane Eisenberg, who is his assistant. We have also on our staff, one more person, a secretary.

Mr. DANIELSON. May I interrupt? Are you engaged full-time in this activity?

Ms. GORE. No, sir. I am the chairman of the Commission and we do work around-every week, all the time.

Mr. DANIELSON. Do you have a full-time employee of any type? Ms. GORE. Mr. Ned Simms works for the Department which the Bicentennial Commission comes under, the State Department. And Miss Diane Eisenberg gives us full time as does her secretary.

Mr. DANIELSON. Are these two people working full time on the Bicentennial?

Ms. GORE. Mr. Ned Simms, the acting director, has three other commissions that he also has under his department.

Mr. DANIELSON. I see. Thank you very much.

Ms. GORE. We have great interest in what has been said all morning and we know the big problem that you have before you, getting us better organized from the Federal point of view. We appreciate the job ahead of you.

We are I am going to speak only on three points which affects us as we operate daily in Maryland. The resolution reads:

The Maryland Bicentennial Commission urges Congress to act rapidly in reorganizing the American Revolution Bicentennial Commission so that present confusion as to finances and purposes of the Bicentennial commemoration will be removed making it possible for the States to plan and organize successful programs.

Our first suggestion was that the Commission strongly urges our Commission, Maryland Commission, strongly urges that the current program of direct grants to State Bicentennial Commissions be continued.

The $45,000 per State per year direct grants is certainly not a great deal of money. However, we believe it is very important money. The

Bicentennial celebration in Maryland, as in all States, will take many diverse routes and will involve all of our citizens. This means that a great deal of money will be spent.

Most of the money will be spent by the citizens themselves in club activities, community activities, programs related to local historic sites, and local improvements, the individual participation in arts and crafts in the areas, et cetera.

The State itself will take on financial obligations of improving the parks, of preparing for the influx of tourists, reemphasizing the re-education of history in our schools, and many other programs that fall within the range of our State government daily operations.

There will be, however, projects that come before us that are not necessarily a local or county program or that would fall under the auspicies of our State agency.

Now, if these programs are worthy of support, we can go to private individuals, foundations, or industry for the financing, but often to prove these groups' capabilities, or to show the overall idea, it often is very well to have what we call seed money.

This is money that we can get from this direct grant.

There are other ways this direct grant can help us. It may be a small project, as far as many are concerned. But it might be a project that we think should be furthered. If we have the idea given to us, and we can help one group to make that a good project, then-and use the money that has been given to us by the Federal Government, then we can encourage other parts of the State to do the same thing.

Another aspect of the direct grant is linking the State Commissions to the Federal Commissions, and instead of me and my Maryland Commission thinking we are often by ourselves alone, doing our own thing, we will always have a feeling of responsibility and feel responsive to the Federal Commission, and this is important to guarantee our rapport together and our togetherness.

This is why we would like to see the grant money continued to us. It is not a large sum, but it is a sum that we can count on, that we don't have to go to the State for, that we don't have to go always to individuals for, but we know we have it.

Mr. DANIELSON. Ms. Gore, if you will permit me to interrupt you, I know that at the risk of being called a spendthrift by some of the more economy-minded people in government, I am going to do what I can to keep getting you the $45,000.

It is your money anyway, you know.

Ms. GORE. Our second point is that the Commission recommends that the proposed joint committee on the American Revolution Bicentennial be charged with responsibility for reviewing budgetary requests of all Federal agencies to insure the inclusion of funds for Bicentennial programs. To this end, the joint committee should formulate and introduce legislation to enable Federal agencies to secure Bicentennial funds.

The Federal agencies are run by people. And no one understands this better than you who work here in Congress. And all people interpret their mandates differently and all are apt to put something above something else.

We recommend this joint committee, this oversight committee, have the responsibility to insure a proper hearing with the Federal agencies, someone who can back us up.

In other words, I can see almost my job would be to go and see Secretary Morton or someone underneath him. Everyone from Georgia, Mississippi, Texas would be coming and trying to see people. We would all be running into each other and we would be finding the person who we thought would be most sympathetic to our project and our program.

I believe that we should be our responsibility should solely be on the worth of our program, and the worth of our program, we present to a joint committee then they help us or they are the people who tell us that, yes; we can expect money from a Federal agency rather than to be on our own.

We would be better organized and I think we would-that the worthy programs, the ones that would fit into the overall calendar they were talking about today, would be recognized.

Our third point is the one that has been mentioned many, many times today so I will be very, very brief on that and that is that we also feel that the centennial-Bicentennial should last longer. Perhaps in Maryland we have a special reason for this, in that the Treaty of Paris was signed there, and, of course, we will hope to end our projects with that very important day for us which was 1833.

Mr. DANIELSON. Wasn't the first capital of the United States in Annapolis?

Ms. GORE. Yes. That is where George Washington went and that is where we signed that very important piece of paper. That would, of course, be a very important day for us.

Also, many of our programs, the ones that have the—perhaps the most fundamental importance in value, such as education in our schools, the compiling of historic information, the publication of histories, the continuation of taking care of our many foreign visitors in the Bicentennial manner of hospitality, cannot end abruptly in 1 day. It can't end that soon after all of this enthusiasm has been started.

As much as we are talking about the Bicentennial, as much as we are thinking about it, it will only get momentum started as we get closer and closer to the day. To cut it off too abruptly would be in a way, to end what many of our-you members have said today, not the celebration of 1 day, but the commemoration of-that we hope to make a very worthwhile program.

I think that concludes it.

Mr. DANIELSON. Thank you very much for your presentation.

Let me ask you one thing. When matching funds, have you as yet had any experience in which-from which you could draw the inference that it may be difficult for smaller communities, smaller cities and groups, sometimes to come up with the matching furds in order to trigger a grant program?

Ms. GORE. There is no question about that, it would be. And today when I had to listen, that how much more money went to a State like New York, what they will have, rather than what a State like South Carolina or Maryland will have, that really brought it to my mind that this is going to be difficult and perhaps it should be well thought out before we find ourselves in that situation.

Mr. DANIELSON. Do you contemplate within your group that within individual communities in Maryland, there could be localtype commemorations as well?