I would offer you the thought that, for example, in the State of Minnesota, about 2.7 percent of the population, of those called for preinduction examination, fail the mental test; 2.7 percent in Minnesota. In the State of South Carolina, 52 percent; 51.8 percent failed in 1962. So you would find very great ranges and those ranges could be explained, I think, by more significant matters than simply a gradual notching up of the standards.

You asked about the actual distribution of the rates for the full population. A sixth would be a little high. Given the current rate of about 32 percent, which would be our estimate for the entire population, we would find about 14.8 percent disqualified for medical reasons, about 11.5 percent for mental reasons, 1.5 percent for both. So the mental disqualification would be about 14 percent; 3.9 percent for administrative reasons. I think if we were to examine administrative reasons you would find that largely criminal records or moral grounds are the cause.

I think you would find a good number of those 3.9 percent would end up physically or mentally disqualified, so your estimate of about a sixth is not far off.

Senator METCALF. Let me ask you, you suggested there was a geographical difference.

Mr. MOYNIHAN. Yes, sir.

Senator METCALF. Would you give me the range of the geographical difference in at least the low and the high in the mental rejections? Mr. MOYNIHAN. Yes, sir; I believe the highest rate for total rejections, of all kinds, the highest rate is South Carolina, with 66.2 percent. The lowest is Alaska, with 25.5.

For the mental test, the highest rate is South Carolina, with 51.8 percent; the lowest rate is Minnesota with 2.7 percent. But if you would just give me a moment I think you would be interested to know what the situation in Montana is.

Senator METCALF. I would be interested in having the complete table put in the record.

Mr. MOYNIHAN. I will be happy to do that, sir.

Senator METCALF. Please do. Without objection, it will be incorporated here.

Mr. MOYNIHAN. I think you will find this not at all displeasing to the persons responsible for the public school system in Montana; 3.9 percent of the population in Montana fail the mental test.

As you know, sir, the incidence of mental retardation in the normal population is about 2.7 percent, so you are getting pretty close to rockbottom in terms of your performance for whatever that may be of interest to you.

Senator METCALF. These figures interest me greatly as a sponsor of the Federal aid to education.

Mr. MOYNIHAN. Yes, sir.

As to what it means to be disqualified, what it means to fail these tests.

There is only one answer, and it is a good one. These tests predict success at being trained for service in the Armed Forces. The mental test, for instance, is not, as such, a test of mental ability, it is not even a test of education, it is just a test of whether or not you can be successfully trained by the Armed Forces. The same is true of the physical test. There is a correlation between education and the passing of the mental examination. But it is a correlation that is not ironclad. I think about 50 percent of the persons who fail the mental test with scores between zero and 9, have had less than an eighth grade education. But, on the other hand, 12 percent have completed high school, so it is not an ironclad relationship. It merely tests whether you are going to be a successful soldier at a cost which is acceptable to the Armed Forces.

On the other hand, we have every reason to think that the test of becoming a successful soldier is a test for becoming a success at a lot of things, including being a successful jobholder.

We are trying to find out more about this. We do not really know a lot about it. The Armed Forces and the Selective Service System have been carrying out this program in order to obtain qualified people for the Armed Forces, they have not been concerned with other elements. We have to report to the President by January 1; he has not given us a lot of time, but we have moved ahead with as much speed as we can to find out what we know about the people who are failing. We have arranged, through the vigorous cooperation of General Hershey, to interview about 3,000 persons around the Nation who have recently failed the mental tests; we are trying to find out who they are, we are trying to find out whether they are working or not, where they get their income, whether they have been raised in a situation of poverty, whether they result from broken homes, whether they would be interested in some additional training.

A number of us have just gone up to one of the Armed Forces examination stations and talked to some of the fellows who had just gone through to find out what they thought about the world. It is surprising the number of persons who wanted to go into the Army; for example, wanted to get out of the situation they were in, and who thought they had passed the test even though they had not come near to passing. We could not help going away from talking to people like that, thinking there is going to be an awful letdown when that fellow finds out he is not going into the Army, that he is too dumb to do so, and therefore what is he going to do next?

We are also that is, the Public Health Service and the New York City Department of Health-going to find out quite a bit about the

question of those persons who are rejected for physical reasons. About a year ago a pilot project was started in New York City whereby public health nurses would talk to and counsel persons who had been rejected for physical grounds. Right now the normal course of events if you are rejected for physical grounds, you are just told that you are 4-F and you are not told anything more about the reasons for which you are rejected.

I believe it is the current estimate by the persons working in New York that about 50 percent of the persons rejected for the Armed Forces are in need of medical treatment; some are getting it, some are

not.

Some persons have lost a finger, as it were, and there is no medical treatment indicated; others have got-well, the theoretical, and I do not think it is entirely theoretical case, that some of the fellows that go through have cancer. It does not help them much just to learn they are 4-F. It is possible to imagine advising them to get an X-ray. We will know a lot more about that. We are finding clearly possible through a device like this to identify people who are in trouble. This would be a means, for example, that is the selective service preinduction service examination, to find out who are the mentally retarded male persons in America. No one knows today. We know there are a great many of them. We know their situation in the world is very difficult; remember that only two generations ago the mentally retarded could work and stay on the farm, could work in the stables, could do lots of work which, if anything, they were rather suited for. That work has disappeared, but mentally retarded have not disappeared, and no one knows, in fact, who these young people are. We can find them.

For instance, in New York City we know there are a great many narcotics addicts; we do not know who they are. We know who many of them are, but in terms of the whole population we do not. The New York City examination has enabled the city health department, under this pilot project I have told you about, to locate the narcotic addicts, and you would be surprised, I think, to know the number of persons who are in fact addicted, at age 18 to 2212, when these examinations take place.

Senator, that is not a very informative commentary, because the fact is that most of our returns are not in.

Senator METCALF. They will be in on the report you are going to make to the President on the first of next year?

Mr. MOYNHAN. Yes, sir; we will report to the President on the first of next year. His feeling of this was that he wanted to move ahead and find out what we can fast. We will have most of the reports on the 3,000 men we are interviewing. As of this morning we already had 1,821 reports in. The New York City project on physical examinations will be analyzed for us by then, so that on January 1 we hope to have a very comprehensive report to make to the President on what we find to be the condition of the young people examined and what measures we thing can be taken to cope with the problems that are indicated.

Senator METCALF. Mr. Secretary, I have another engagement; I am not leaving because I am not interested. I am fascinated by your testimony, but we have to build dams and appropriate money in this Congress, too, and I am going to ask Senator Pell to continue presid

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