The thing would be to find uncommitted students or uncommitted people, people who hadn't yet decided what they wanted to do in life.

Senator WILLIAMS. The description of the work that you and others are doing at the hospital and at camp is very helpful testimony. Do you know how many volunteers serve in the hospital?

Mr. RIVINUS. Well, when I was the chairman we were having a little difficulty. A few Princetonians had gotten a little overanxious and tried to interfere in the running of the organization, and the New Jersey State government wasn't at all interested in having us back out again. The only reason that I kept working at it was because the psychiatrists there wanted us. So there wasn't much chance for too many volunteers.

This year when things seemed a little slow, at first the chairman of the group put an ad in the Daily Princetonian and pretty soon there were two truckloads of volunteers going out, which was ample for the amount of kids there.

As to the summer camp, during the recruiting this year, I had about 40 applications for about 10 positions. The main problem was that guys were required by their parents or by the university to make more money than we paid. A lot of guys would have come out except they were on scholarship, and the university requires them to make a certain amount of money every summer, if they are on scholarship.

Senator WILLIAMS. In addition to the work of students at the hospital, are there a lot of adult volunteers, too?

Mr. RIVINUS. We never had very much contact with the adults because we weren't allowed in there. They were kept separated from the children. I really don't know how it works, but I suspect there probably were adult volunteers.

Senator WILLIAMS. A good friend of Congressman Thompson, Mrs. Lord, is in the audience today and I know of her continuing interest in Skillman.

We are getting such exciting testimony here that I would like to chat on and on with both of you, but we have our anchorman, the president of our host society.

You are next, Michael.

Mr. PANE. On behalf of the society, I would express our happiness that you have come down here and are in this room. I point out that we are in the senate chamber, or the Princeton model of the senate chamber, where we have been debating issues of national importance. and where we passed by a vote of 27 to 13 a resolution in favor of the proposal that we are discussing today. I have a copy of the affirmative speech which I would like to pass on to you later.

Senator WILLIAMS. It might be appropriate to put it in the record. We had a little criticism from a former Princetonian, a prominent Member of Congress. The headline in the newspaper says he doubts the value of a national service corps. I would like to have the majority view of Princeton in the record.

Mr. PANE. If I may, sir, I would like to approach this from two standpoints: the limited personal experience I have in doing voluntary work; and, secondly, in terms of my own views about people whom I come in contact with around here and on other campuses and their interest in this.

I have had the pleasure of working on the tutorial project for a while, and although Ron is too modest to say this, this particular tutorial project was almost completely the product of his own inspiration and idealism and hard work. All of us who have done any work on it at all have felt a tremendous sense of leadership on his part. This brings me to one point: continuity.

Even considering the resources of Princeton in terms of students and faculty and the need nearby in Trenton, such a project was not undertaken until this year. Even now this project is in many ways a happy accident of men and geography, of having the right people in the right place. From what experience I have had here and while working weekends on slum clearance in Philadelphia, I have found a tremendous need exists. There is a tremendous need, and we as Americans cannot rely on accidentally having the right people in the right place.

There are many areas where there isn't a campus located conveniently nearby. I think this is a crucial area where the corps would be of tremendous value to the country.

I think the Corps would do extremely well in terms of getting continuity for such projects as this, and in founding projects which cannot be started or cannot be initiated by a local area.

I would like to approach this proposal from a slightly more subjective point of view. My own personal belief is, to paraphrase Kipling, "What does he know of America who only suburbia knows?"

By being closely associated with the problems our country faces, which one normally doesn't come in contact with in the average middle-class community, individuals would develop a much greater feeling of commitment to the Nation and a much greater feeling of involvement in community affairs. I think-I cannot speak for any other level of age, but I can speak for my own-there is assuredly an interest and an ability to serve, and I think that the proposal outlined here would give young people a chance to serve. It would aid them by giving them not only experience, but also a feeling of commitment and identification with the problems which we as a nation must face. As people who will be in positions of leadership within a few years, they will be in a position to deal with these problems better because of this experience. Thus I am very much in favor of this bill.

RESOLUTION PASSED BY THE PRINCETON SENATE OF THE AMERICAN WHIG CLIOSOPHIC SOCIETY MAY 8, 1963

Resolved, That this senate should approve the establishment of a national service or domestic peace corps.

Approved: 27 to 13.

The creation of a National Service Corps is both a result and an extension of American ways and American traditions. Furthermore, it is a program both useful and necessary in light of our current national problems.

The spirit of voluntary aid and assistance to one's less fortunate neighbors and the spirit of providing equal opportunity are both American customs and ideals. The domestic peace corps would continue in these traditions of service. How deep is the problem and how well can our envisioned program deal with it? In 1963, 27 million young people will be in the Nation's work force of whom 71⁄2 million will have no high school diploma and 21⁄2 million will be grammar school dropouts. This inequality in education must be remedied.

One-third of our urban communities and one-half of our rural communities have no child welfare departments nor trained personnel. The American Public Welfare Association says, "That only token service is currently given toward protecting children and strengthening family life, and this by overworked staff members."

One-sixth or 32 million Americans exist on a submarginal level; 3 percent of our population is mentally ill; 200,000 of these are mentally retarded and need special training and care. Juvenile delinquency looms as an ever-growing problem. It is indeed a cruel paradox that so much poverty and misfortune exists in a nation with the world's highest standard of living. It is unjust that so many citizens of a democracy should be so unequal.

This problem is a great one and, quite obviously, 5,000 men and women would not solve it, but the purpose of our program is not to solve the problem singlehandedly. It is rather intended as a catalyst to center attention on the problem nationally and to provide local incentive. It is right that the Federal Government serve to inspire its people to solve a national problem.

This Corps would be based on local requests for assistance and local control once it is given. We do not want Washington to become the city hall of the Nation. There would be no aid to religious charities. The corpsmen would be barred from political activity so that the danger of their use as a political instrument of influence would be minimized. The price, $4 to $61⁄2 million, is not

prohibitive, less indeed than a Mercury space shot.

Finally, the program would provide a rallying point for those disorganized but well-meaning student groups and groups of retired persons already interested in social service work.

Thus the program would serve as a catalyst to bring attention to a national problem and to inspire its elimination. Let us then give support to a necessary and useful program, an outlet for our ideological efforts, a program which seeks only to work itself out of a job, a National Service Corps.

Senator WILLIAMS. I certainly agree with you that some of the best work that has been done to help people who really need it has been done too much by chance. You will be interested in the testimony of one of the members of President Kennedy's Cabinet. He described a group of young men in a major city who lived in the city slum and were going in the wrong direction at breakneck speed. It just happened that one woman, a teacher, took these boys into her circle of friends and guided them, counseled them. and worked with them. He described the results, for he was one of them. It was Secretary Celebrezze. He described how one woman had changed the whole life of young fellows who were heading down the road to delinquency. Of course, we are grateful indeed there are those people, but it would be far better to take some of the chance out of it and to have a national corps of people who would help guide others into service. I am sure that's exactly what your feeling is about this proposal.

That questionnaire mentioned earlier which came to Princeton was the Presidential Study Group's questionnaire and not the subcommittee's.

Anything else at this point?

Well, we are deeply grateful. Let me get three additional facts here, so the record can show your home addresses. I will make it my business to have your testimony brought to your Senators' attention, and I am sure Congressman Thompson will do the same in bringing your wisdom to the Members of Congress.

Highland Park is home for Mike.

Mr. GLICK. Wilmette, Ill.

Mr. RIVINUS. Annapolis, Md.

Senator WILLIAMS. You have been most helpful. Thank you very much. Good luck to all of you.

Now we will hear from Mrs. Arthur Hawkins, Department of Christian Social Action of the Episcopal Diocese of Newark.

STATEMENT OF MRS. ARTHUR HAWKINS, DEPARTMENT OF CHRISTIAN SOCIAL ACTION, PROTESTANT EPISCOPAL DIOCESE OF NEWARK, N.J.

Senator WILLIAMS. Did you have a chance to hear these men from Princeton, Mrs. Hawkins?

Mrs. HAWKINS. I only heard a little of what they said. I am sorry I didn't get here earlier.

Senator WILLIAMS. The work they are doing is great indeed and they described it very well.

Mrs. HAWKINS. My name is Mrs. Arthur Hawkins, 396 Alair Avenue, Leonia, N.J. I am representing the Department of the Christian Social Relations of the Episcopal Diocese of Newark.

In the Newark area there are 10,000 youths, boys and girls, out of school and out of work. This is a quote from Robert F. Palmer, Newark News, March 1963:

Our ministers in the churches find that any job given a youth helps him find himself and keeps him out of trouble.

What we need to help these people is an unprejudiced and manysided approach. We feel that the Senate bill (S. 1321) and legislation already before Congress is a step in the right direction to give these youngsters the help they need now.

Here in New Jersey last year we had an example of the desire young people have to serve others. Sixteen Douglass College girls went down into the migrant labor camps. They raised $1,500 on their own and then were given a grant of $9,000 by the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare to give each girl a stipend for the summer.

They were overenthusiastic and hoped to accomplish more than they did, and though they established nurseries in five worst camps, their hopes were not realized. They could have accomplished much more with Peace Corps training, adequate supervision, and coordinated programs.

Our young people are aware of injustices. I have worked with two high school groups in our area this year and both were anxious to do something, anything, about the migrant problem. We only need give them an opportunity to do something about this injustice.

A Youth Conservation Corps would give both the young people who want to serve and those unemployed the needed supervision and discipline. The Department of Christian Social Relations of the Episcopal diocese of Newark knows it is not just a matter of numbers of youth, but a matter of great importance to each of these girls and boys as individual human beings, because their needs are not being met by our society. They need help now, not sometime in the future, but right now.

We urge passage of this legislation for the conservation of the youth of the State of New Jersey.

I close with this statement, a statement by the Rt. Rev. Arthur Lichtenberger, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, made on May 8, 1963, and also a resolution adopted by the Protestant-Episcopal Church on February 20, 1963, for both local and national action to

provide training and employment for the young people of the United States.

Thank you very much.

Senator WILLIAMS. Thank you ever so much, Mrs. Hawkins.

We appreciate particularly your attention to one of the specific groups with which the domestic Peace Corps would work-the migratory farm family. I know fully the national need here and the fact that with existing voluntary effort we are only scratching the surface of the need.

I would like to ask a few questions. First, in evaluating this legislation, do you think the objectives are worthy? We have had no one questioning the objectives of this legislation. People have questioned the method or inadequate numbers perhaps, but nobody has questioned the hard economic fact that we also have to answer in legislation, the cost-to-benefit ratio. The cost is low and the benefit we feel is very high, because these are volunteers and not highly paid professionals.

And then the final question is, will it work? It is in my judgment almost a fact that if there are a few highly qualified volunteers, there can be a great mobilization of others in the migratory farm situation. Mrs. HAWKINS. In describing what we found, one has to take into consideration the attitudes in south Jersey.

The Mason-Dixon line actually starts at about Trenton, or a little above, and the attitudes are like those of the 19th century in other parts of the State. When we first started going down there with the volunteers in the health program here in New Jersey, we found that the public health nurses were working almost alone with a few people from the health department. We had been going down for 2 years before we found that women from the area were beginning to go out with the nurses as volunteers to help them. Apparently we showed them the way. I think very often people just take situations for granted, particularly when there is a great big problem like the migrant problem in south Jersey where the camps are often so bad. The problem is so big, and the public attitude toward it so impenetrable, that they just let it go and say, "Well, there's not much I can do about it." It is very much the way people acted toward slavery before a movement started to eradicate it.

And it is very much like slavery, because these people travel from place to place and live in shacks. Even the best shacks are cinder block, with very few cots, and perhaps running water in a cinder block showerhouse 40 or 50 feet away.

Most of these places have privies and most of them are overcrowded, particularly during the working season.

I wish you could see where the girls were working in the Probasco camp in Burlington County. I think this camp has been closed, because so many people saw what the situation was there. The Bureau of Migrant Labor closed this camp so that Mr. Probasco could build a better one, and I think he has built a better one, but nevertheless that one was a row of ex-chicken coops. The first year I saw it was the year before the girls started working. In these chicken coops the rooms were about 8 by 6 feet and divided by just very thin partitions. In one of these little cells were two beds with old mattresses stuffed with straw, a little washstand made of an orange crate with a pitcher