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County Flood Control and Water Conservation District; and (2) a sum of money representing, in the opinion of the Secretary of the Army, the amount by which the appraised market value of the property conveyed by the Secretary of the Army exceeds the appraised market value of the property accepted in exchange therefor. Any money received by the Secretary of the Army in connection with this exchange shall be covered into the Treasury as miscellaneous receipts.

Mr. PHILBIN. Congressman Teague, we are very happy to have you here and will be very glad to have your testimony, the Honorable Charles M. Teague.



Mr. TEAGUE. Thank you very much. I will be brief.

I appear in support of H.R. 12081, which involves a rather complicated authorization for an exchange of property in Monterey County, Calif., which is now a part of my congressional district.

Mr. NORBLAD. But will not be in the future?
Mr. TEAGUE. Will not be in the future, that's right.

Mr. NORBLAD. I compliment you on your interest on something you won't have to worry about in the future.

Mr. TEAGUE. Thank you.

Senators Engle and Kuchel have introduced identical bills in the Senate. Witnesses who will follow me will explain this in more detail, but I want to make a couple of points very clear.

This is an arrangement if it is put into effect which will be to the advantage of the Army as well as the people of Monterey County. All of you I know are always concerned about cost, as this is not going to cost the Federal Government 1 cent.

I want to make another point very clear: Some of you from New England and the Midwest I know get a little tired of sending money out to California to build dams. This involves a dam but it will not involve any request in any way for Federal funds. It will be built by a local bond issue under the supervision of the Monterey County Flood Control and Water Conservation District.

I know of no opposition whatsoever, either from the Government or citizens out there, except as pointed out in a letter which many of you, perhaps all, received a few weeks ago from some 15 families who would lose their property by condemnation in order that the exchange can be made.

We are all of us I am sure sympathetic with people who find that they must lose some property so that a dam or highway may be built, but, of course, they will be fully compensated, and these people do constitute a very infinitesimal percentage of the people in Monterey County who will benefit if and when this dam is built.

Just as a matter of interest, in the letter you received it was alleged that I had introduced this bill in order to get votes. Well, that is not exactly accurate because Monterey County after the end of this year will not be in my congressional district, so I disclaim any guilt for having introduced this bill to get votes.

Now, without further ado, Mr. Chairman, inasmuch as I do not feel qualified to answer detailed questions, I would like to introduce Mr. Charles Deaver-Mr. Deaver, will you come forward, please—who is a member of the Monterey County Board of Supervisors, and the Monterey County Flood Control and Water Conservation District, and Mr. Loran Bunte, Jr., who is the engineer for the district, and Mr. Jess Larson, who is counsel for the district, and they will be much better qualified to answer detailed questions than I.

Mr. PHILBIN. You have given us a very excellent statement.

We will be happy, of course, to hear your people present their views.

Mr. TEAGUE. Thank you. Counsel has suggested that—quite properly; I appreciate it-it will be better to have the witness from the Department of the Army first.

Mr. PHILBIN. Yes. We have the Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army, Mr. Merrill, here. We are glad to have you, Mr. Merrill. We appreciate having your views on this

bill. You may proceed in your own way,

Mr. MERRILL. I have a prepared statement, Mr. Chairman, if I could read it, to rather clearly and as concisely as we can, set forth the position of the Department of the Army on it.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed in your own way, Mr. Secretary.



Mr. MERRILL. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am Eugene H. Merrill, Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations. The Department of the Army has been designated as the representative of the Department of Defense for this legislation.

I have a brief prepared statement which I would like to present to the committee.

Under the provisions of this bill, the Secretary of the Army would be authorized, upon such terms and conditions as he deemis in the public interest, to convey to the Monterey County Flood Control and Water Conservation District fee title to approximately 8,775 acres of land, and flowage easements over approximately 1,135 acres of land and a highway and bridge easement over approximately 65 acres of land, all of which are areas now in the Hunter Liggett Military Reservation.

The Monterey County Flood Control and Water Conservation District, in exchange, would convey to the United States an exclusive right-of-way for road purposes between Hunter-Liggett Military Reservation and Camp Roberts, construct a tank road and appurtenances, in accordance with plans and specifications approved by the Secretary of the Army, and also relocate existing Army facilities, consisting principally of a communication line, now in the areas to be conveyed by the Secretary of the Army to the district.

The Hunter-Liggett Military Reservation, a subinstallation of Fort Ord and located in Monterey County, Calif., currently comprises approximately 175,000 acres of land.

Camp Roberts, in Monterey and San Luis Obispo Counties approximately 8 road miles east of Hunter-Liggett Military Reservation, comprises approximately 44,000 acres of Government-owned lands.

The Hunter-Liggett-Camp Roberts complex has present and planned future missions to provide logistical support for Active Army and Reserve component training and the U.S. Army Combat Development Experimentation Center.

Consequently, there is a requirement for the movement of troops and military vehicles, both wheeled and tracked, between Hunter-Liggett Military Reservation and Camp Roberts.

The only roadway now available between Camp Roberts and HunterLiggett Military Reservation is a county road known as the BradleyPleyto Road which the Department of the Army is using, under arrangements with Monterey County, governing conditions of use and control of Army movements over this public road.

The Monterey County Flood Control and Water Conservation District of the State of California has initiated plans to construct, as a locally sponsored flood control, water conservation and recreation project, a dam on the San Antonio River in the vicinity of the mouth of Sul. phur Canyon in Monterey County.

A reservoir in this location would result in the inundation of some of the land within the Hunter-Liggett Military Reservation and would require flowage easements over other reservation areas.

Accordingly, the district desires to acquire fee title to the 8,775 acres of land which would be inundated and flowage easements as well as a highway and bridge easement over other areas as described in the bill.

As another result of the construction of the San Antonio Dam and Reservoir project in the proposed location, the Bradley-Pleyto Road, the only roadway now available between Camp Roberts and HunterLiggett, will become unusable for both military and civilian traffic.

The lands which are involved in this bill are located in what is known as the panhandle area of the Hunter-Liggett Military Reservation.

This area, a strip of land extending southeasterly from the eastern boundary of Hunter-Liggett, is used principally as a corridor for a tank trail and a communications line leading into the Bradley-Pleyto county road.

A major portion of this area would be inundated at the proposed high pool level.

The land over which a flowage easement would be granted would remain available to the Department of the Army for maneuver and training activities.

The Government is assured a fair return for the conveyance by a provision in the bill requiring the district to make payment of the amount by which the appraised market value of the property conveyed by the Secretary of the Army exceeds the market value of the property accepted in exchange therefor.

Preliminary estimates indicate, however, that the Government will in fact receive fair value, moneywise, in the exchange. The fair market value of land which the district requires is estimated to be $563,000.

The estimated value of the privately owned land which the district will acquire for the tank trail right-of-way is $16,250.

The cost of constructing that portion of the tank road which is not on the Hunter-Liggett Military Reservation is estimated at $580,000, making a total cost of the offbase portion of the tank road $596,250.

In addition, there will be other costs for replacement in kind, including moving, constructing, and improving the portion of the road on the reservation and relocating an Army communication line.

The Department of the Army, after weighing carefully the disadvantages as to land loss compared with the benefits of obtaining an exclusive right-of-way between these two reservations, has determined that its military interests would be provided for adequately and that its military operations would not be impaired by the proposed exchange.

An exclusive tank route between the reservations would meet a definite Army need.

Army use of the existing county road, subordinate to public traffic, cannot be said to be a satisfactory route for its increasingly heavy flow of vehicular traffic.

Certain intangible benefits also would accrue to the Department of the Army through the proposed exchange, such as the use of reservoir areas for amphibious and other training purposes, and recreation for military personnel in the vicinity of the San Antonio Dam project.

The Department of the Army will furnish criteria to the Monterey County Flood Control and Water Conservation District and work very closely with that agency in its development of plans and specifications so as to expedite this work as much as possible and minimize the possibility of changes or revisions when they are reviewed for approval by the Secretary of the Army as the bill provides.

As the report submitted to your committee by the Secretary on July 20, 1962, indicates, the Department of the Army is recommending a revision in the bill to assure that any costs which the Army may incur in preliminary administrative work in connection with the transaction may be properly reimbursed by the district.

Enactment of this legislation, if modified as recommended by the Department of the Army, will have no apparent effect on the budgetary requirements of the Department of the Army.

The Bureau of the Budget advised that, from the standpoint of the administration's program, there is no objection to the presentation of this report for the consideration of the committee.

I have appreciated this opportunity of appearing before the committee and shall be happy to answer any questions you may have on this bill.

Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee, this concludes my statement.

Mr. PHILBIN. Thank you very much, Mr. Merrill, for this very informative statement.

You feel on all of the facts in this situation that the Army is getting a good deal here and the bill, if amended as you suggest, will enable you to enter into negotiations and make a proper settlement of this matter in the interest of the Government?

Mr. MERRILL. That is correct, sir.

We feel that this would be of benefit to the Army, would not adversely affect the Army, would be particularly beneficial to us in case of mobilization, and that it would also be in the general public interest in the area.

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Mr. PHILBIN. You feel that the advantages of the bill far outweigh any disadvantages there may be of giving up some of this land?

Mr. MERRILL. We do. Mr. PHILBIN. You feel also that you want to cooperate with the officials there who are building this dam and reservoir for flood control and for recreational use?

Mr. MERRILL. We feel as a general policy the Army should at all times attempt in insuring that it is performing its mission that if the public interest is involved we take that into consideration in that general policy.

Mr. PHILBIN. You carry out your policy consistent with the public interest factors and the interest of the Army?

Mr. MERRILL. Yes, sir.
Mr. PHILBIN. And the interest of the Government.
Mr, MERRILL. Yes, sir.

Mr. PHILBIN. Which you feel are adequately safeguarded in the proposed bill as amended?

Mr. MERRILL. Yes, sir; we do.
Mr. PHILBIN. In accordance with your recommendations.

Mr. MERRILL. Yes, sir. If I may point out, I understand the district representatives may have some comments on our proposed amendment and it may result in our modifying our position on the proposed amendment, depending on the testimony given by the district witnesses.

Mr. PHILBIN. Which one?

Mr. MERRILL. A minor addition to the bill, which was proposed by the Secretary of the Army.

Mr. PRICE. Do I understand that you anticipate what the district will testify and are ready to modify your position!

Mr. MERRILL. They have shown us their prepared statement.

Mr. PRICE. You kind of think they have a good case in this presentation they are going to make, would you say?

Mr. MERRILL. On this particular point; yes, sir.
Mr. PHILBIN. Do you have some questions?
Mr. NORBLAD. Where is 101 on there, Major?

Major Dragoo. That comes right down the valley—through here [indicating).

Mr. NORBLAD. Right through the edge of the reservation ?
Major DRAGOO. Right in here.
Mr. BUNTE. 101 comes down the valley and through Camp Roberts.
Mr. NORBLAD. Where is the highway that goes along the coast ?

Mr. BUNTE. Starts at Monterey and comes down the coast and finally into San Luis Obispo.

Mr. NORBLAD. Goes to the edge of the reservation, I take it!
Mr. BUNTE. Right at this [indicating) point; yes, sir.
Mr. NORBLAD. Dr. Hall.
Mr. Hall. No questions.
Mr. PHILBIN. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. DoYLE. I have one question.

You feel, Mr. Secretary, that there is no foreseeable need of the Army again needing the fee title to this land?

Mr. MERRILL. We do not foresee a need for the land, Mr. Doyle. It is, as pointed out, largely a connection between the two larger areas, Camp Roberts and the Hunter-Liggett Reservation.

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