Crown to direct or controul elections, and write 400 letters for that purpose, he could not pass fuch conduct unnoticed. He had, he faid, taken up the business on great Patriotic principles, and would leave it to the House to determine whether they could repeal their own order, or cause an infringement of it to be punished.

Without any further debate, the queftion was put on Lord Nugent's motion, which on a division was carried near three

to one.

For it Against it

87

30

The House then refolved itself into a Committee on the Irish papers, in which Lord North moved three propofitions which passed nem. con. The first was for repealing the act that prohibits the exportation of gold coin from Great Britain to Ireland; the fecond for taking off the prohibition to port foreign hops into Ireland, and the drawback on the exportation of British hops; the third for enabling his Majesty's Irish subjects to become Members of the Turky Company, and to export woollens in British or Irith ships to the Levant.

The last proposition his Lordship thought was necessary; for the exportation of woollens having been granted to Ireland, the Irish would naturally expect a share in the Turky trade, which at present was not poffible, as it was a received opinion, that an Irishman cannot at present be admitted a Member of the Turky Company.

Those propofitions having passed, the Chairman left the chair, and the House adjourned.

Tuesday, February 8.

Sir George Savile presented the Yorkshire petition, and called the attention of the House to some very serious observations. As Representative, said he, of the respectable county of York, the largest and most populous of the kingdom, I have often laid before this House numberless petitions from my constituents, praying for commercial encouragement, or liberty to enclose waste unprofitable grounds. I have always made it my duty to attend, through every stage, to the bills brought in upon these petitions; and indeed I gave more of my time to them than to the management of my own private affairs. I expected to appear to-day before you with many petitions of a fimilar nature; I have waited to the very last day that the House will receive petitions; but my constituents, contrary to their annual custom, have difap

pointed me. The partial confideration of enclosures has been lost in the sense they entertain of the general distress and grievances of the empire: they have sent me but one petition, and that too of a national import: however, though they have sent but one, it is such as, like Aaron's rod had fwallowed up all the rest Whatever might be the feelings of individuals, the petitioners had taken care to speak of the nation's grievances with modesty; they did not arraign or condemn the measures that had reduced the glory and profperity of the empire; they did not accufe any fer of men, or recommend any system of politics; it was clear, however, that they wished that the present system might not be continued.

Many artifices, said he, have been employed to discredit the petition, and those who had figned it. Let me beg leave to shew to the House a lift of the names of those Gentlemen who addressed the Sheriff to call a meeting of the county; it contains 120 as respectable names as any in the kingdom. Does the House wish to fee the names of those who formed the Committee? There they are: Could greater characters be assembled in any county ? Who were those who met at York in consequence of the Sheriff's advertisement ? Between fix and seven hundred persons of the greatest fortunes in Yorkshire. There was, I will venture to say, more landed property at the meeting, than now is, or ever was within those walls!

Such were the people who agreed to the petition on which I now lean. Oeconomy in the expenditure of the public money is all they ask. Will any man vote for rejecting so modest, so reasonable a request? I hope not. Will any man vote that this petition be not brought up? No man, I trust, will dare do it. The Minister will not dare do it, because he knows he ought not to dare it. But there is another thing alfo which he ought not to dare; and that is, to attempt to defeat the object of it. If the Minister is so inclined, with the turn of his finger he may destroy it: but let him beware how he directs his influence against it. Let me advise him to beware how he institutes an inquiry into the merits of the petition: it speaks for itself; and the petitioners will look upon such an enquiry as a mockery, as a Parliamentary or Ministerial trick to put an indirect negative upon their petition. When they met to draw it up they were unarmed; they had neither muskets nor staves; but if you mock them, they will --I'll leave blanks

M 2

banks for the fagacity of the House to fill up.

The petitioners are too respectable and too numerous to be trifled with: some of them are poffefsed of the firft citates in the county; and the numbers who have figned this petition amount to near 9000 men, all landholders in a county which includes such a confiderable part of the territory of Great Britain.

These, Mr. Speaker, are observations which I thought it my duty to premise: and, Sir, with your leave, I move that this petition be now brought up.

The Speaker put the question, which was carried without a dissentient voice.

Sir George then brought it up, caused it to be read, and moved that it should lie on the table for the inspection of the Members. He obferved at the fame time, that, as an honourable Gentleman behind him (Mr. Burke) intended in a day or two to move some propositions in the House, on nearly the fame fubject, he should wait to fee if his plan would come up to the with es of the petitioners, before he should move any thing specific on the petition which he had just then the honour to lay before the Houfe. He could not, however, help observing, that it was not a little surprising that, the fame ideas on public economy should have so naturally occurred at the fame time to his honourable friend, and to the frecholders of Yorkshire.

Lord North faid, the honourable Baronet must suppose Gentlemen to be very ignorant of their duty as Members of Parliament, when he imagined that they might of pose the introduction of a petition that had for its object the public good. But he muft fuppofe them to be equally ignorant of their duty, and fearful to difcharge it, if he imagined that by holding before them perfonal fears, they might be deterred from weighing any matter that was brought before them. An enquiry ought always to precede redress of grievances, and he could not bat confets that a petition, depreciating enquiry, came in a very questionable Chape.

Sir George Savile interrupted his Lordhip, to affure him that he had greatly mifunderstood Lim. He had not by any means depreciated enquiry; he had only observed, that an enquiry which should be calculated more for the purpose of delay, and defeating the object of the petition, than for in vestigation, would only be an abfurd mockery of the diftreffes of which the petitioners complained.

Lord North would no longer urge his argument, as the honourable Baronet had

explained his words in a different meaning from that which his argument tended to combat and destroy. But he would still contend, that it was the duty of a Member of Parliament to enquire before he should pronounce; and in the present cafe more particularly. The petitioners, for instance, prayed that no new duty should be imposed. Would any Gentleman suppose that fuch a prayer could be complied with, confiftently with the resolutions of the House in the present Session of Parliament? Had not ten millions been voted in the Committee of Supply this year? Were there not three millions of last year for the payment of which no fund had been as yet provided? Was he not to propose ways and means for the interest of these thirteen millions, because a part of the nation did not think it expedient to have new taxes imposed? This was an idea repugnant to sense, to justice, and to the exigencies of

the State.

Mr. Fox was furprised to hear the noble Lord reafon in such a manner. The noble Lord by his fide (Lord George Germaine) certainly could not support him in such a mode of arguing. That noble Lord had praised the Irish Parliament, and he had very properly and very justly praifed them, for infifting on a redress of their grievances, before they would make any. provision for the payment of money which was already voted. Ireland refused to impose new taxes, and she gained her points. The noble Lord in the blue ribbon admitted the force of HER arguments, but would allow no force to fimilar arguments within their walls. But the honourable Baronet had not infinuated that no provision should be made for the interest of the fums already granted, till the prayer of the petition should have been granted. He only infinuated, that some step ought to be taken towards a redrefs of grievances; that ceconomy should be observed in the expenditure of public money. He had faid nothing by way of intimidating: he had not held up perfonal terrors to the Members of that House; it was the House that was threatened with the greatest of all public losses, the loss of public confidence. The petitioners of York, and of other counties, had not used arms; peace was all they fought-peace was all they wished for; and there were within their reach peaceable, civil, and conftitutional means to command a redress of their grievances; to reduce the influence of the Crown, and prevent the squandering of the public money.

The noble Lord had dwelt much upon the

fold

A

the duty of Members of Parliament, and, instead of elucidating the subject, he had most unconscionably confounded two duties, and blended them into one. Member of Parliament appeared in a twocapacity-judicial and legiflative. In his judicial capacity, he certainly ought to be deaf to the voice of fear; he ought to be inflexible in what he thinks right, and nothing should divert him from proceeding as his judgment directs.

Fiat,

justitia, ruat cælum. In his legislative capacity, on the contrary, he ought to litten to those who have appointed him their servant: nay, though they should be wrong, he ought_fometimes to pay a deference to their prejudices. They now called upon the noble Lord, and he bound to hear them. His Lordship always affociated the ideas of enquiry and defeat so firmly, that, for his part, he could not think that he suggested an enquiry, but for the purpose of defeating the peti

tion.

was

It was faid, that corruption profpered under the prefent Administration; the fame had been faid of the Whigs; but now was the time which would discover which Government cherished corruption molt. The judgment of Solomon was applicable to both parties. We are both accused of corruption; we fubmit to have it cut up by the root; you will not confent to it; who then are the parents of corruption?'

His honoured friend was surprised that the fame ideas on public economy should have fo naturally occurred at the fame time to his other honourable friend (Mr. Burke) and to the Freeholders of Yorkshire. For his part, he was not at all surprised at it; for it was natural, when grievances were become general, that Middlesex and York should both feel them.

He told the noble Lord, he had now the most favourable opportunity to gain popularity, if he supported the petition with all his influence; it was in vain for Opposi tion to thwart him; the people would adore him, and think they owed him as many bleffings as they now do the reverse. The debate terminated here; the queftion was put for the petition to lie on the, table, and was carried.

Friday, February 11.

A petition was presented from Mr. Wood from the Comson Council of London, of the fame nature with that of those from the counties, wh ch was read and left on the table.

Mr. Piomer brought up a petition from

the county of Hertford; which was read, and ordered to be left on the table to be perused by the Members.

Lord North declared he had no good opinion of the motives and views that first gave birth to those petitions, nor was his opinion altered upon reading the very titles of them, which, he said, justified his fufpicions of the factious spirit from which they had originated: The Petition of the Gentlemen, Clergy, and Freeholders of such a county. This implies that the Petition is the Petition of the whole county. If the title had been in these words, or to this purpose: The Petition of the Gentle-. men, &c. whose names are underneath subscribed, it would have been unexceptionable; but as it stands, it conveys a very false and unjust idea, as appears from the Protest just now mentioned by the noble Viscount, not to mention other protests and other arguments of another kind.

These pentions, therefore, cannot poffibly be denominated Petitions expreffing the sense of the counties, when many persons of different ranks, and of large landed property, protest against them. In his idea idea, they were no more than the petitions of private individuals, complaining of grievances, and defiring alterations, which, as the petitions of individuals, demanded the attention and discussion of the House; and no-body, he believed, meant to oppole the inquiry into the facts stated in them, in a Parliamentary manner.

The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie on the table.

At eighteen minutes after four Mr. Burke rote, he faid, in performance of his promise, in obedience to his duty, and in conformity, he trusted, to the withes of all the people of England, to propose a plan of public economy, at a time when it was never more necessary to the State. He was not unaware of the difficulties that attended his situation: his plan, if adopted, might take from a bosom friend his chief support; his own future profpects in life might be blasted; and he was fure that he must make himself many enemies -But at his time of life, when he began to Hope his down hill course, he was not to be terrified from purtuing a plan that had for its basis the public good. Younger men indeed, who might outlive the present King's reign, and turn their eyes to his fucceffor, might be deterred by the profpect of a long gloomy visto of Court disgrace, with which a future reign might overwhelm them for an attempt to leffen the influence of the Crown. His views did not go beyond the present reign;

he pro

he therefore was not guided by those motives which prudence would naturally fuggeft to younger men. Oeconomy he nounced to be the means, not only to restore us to our former state of splendor, but also to that state of independence on the Crown, without which it was impossible for us to be free. Our situation, he admitted, was not indeed as bad as it was last year; but it ought to be remembered, that we were now only in the middle of a most dangerous and expenfive war. We had a most formidable confederacy to contend with; and great as our resources were, we fhould not perhaps find more than we really stand in need of. A plan of ceconomy, in the first instance, afforded the most happy presage of future successes; but to be effectual it must be systematic. Such a plan he flattered himself he had, after in finite pains, digested, and rendered perfectly practicable. It would effect a faving to the nation of near 300,000l. a-year, without taking from the splendor of the Crown; without reducing his Majesty to the smalleft inconvenience; and would for ever free Minifters from the disagreeable neceflity of applying to Parliament, for payments of the King's debts.

As he knew that in all our operations, as well civil as military, we must be guided by thofe of the enemy, he had turned his eyes to the continent, and there he found our enemies making such arrangements in their finances, as enabled them to profe. cute the war with infinitely more probability of fuccess than we can. We had al ready exhaufted ourselves by an extravagant expenditure of money; our fubjects had already fubmitted to enormous taxes; and yet it had been confeffed by the friends of Government, that after all our efforts, if we were now to make a peace, it must be upon inglorious terms. How much worse must our fituation be in two years more, when, while we were prodigal of our treafure, our enemies were most religiously peconomical of theirs. Their extraordinaries fince the beginning of the war never exceeded eight millions fterling in one year; they had lately borrowed about 2,500 0001. and yet they had not funded a fhilling. They had not as yet impofed a fingle tax additional to those of their peace eftablishment; they had not established any bur hentome fund for the payment of these extraordinaries. The interest was paid wish thote fums which were faved to the Srate by economy. A general reform had taken place through France; in the King's houshold, nay, in the Queen's Bed

chamber, and in the 'menus plaifirs' of the Royal Family. This he proved from an arret of the French published in Paris the ist instant; and which had been regiltered in the Parliament of Paris the 29th of last month. By the reduction of expences, the French financier had faved an income equal to the payment of intereft for the loan and for the whole of the extraordinaries; the savings amounted to no less a fum than 950,000l. a-year. All this had been effected in a manner in which the smallest trace of arbitrary power was not to be found. The value of the coin had not been raised; its substance had not been reduced; the capital of the national debt had not fuffered the least loss of its value; and the least delay had not appeared in the payment of the interest of that debt. On the contrary, all was conducted in a manner that gave a firm foundation to public credit; and rendered the Minifter who planned, and the Sovereign who had adopted the plans, for ever dear to the people whose property was not invaded, though the greatest efforts were made to raise friends for carrying on the war. The King of France, like a good father of his people, had thought it his duty rather to retrench in his own houthold than take from his people. This young Prince, though an enemy he must confefs, deserved the refpect, the esteem, the admiration of Europe. What a gloomy prospect for us! An able Minifter and a Patriotic King directed the affairs of our enemies, while ours were managed by a Patriotic King indeed, but by a much less able financier.

To follow the example of Monfieur Neckar, it would be necellary to abolith many places, which a great length of time had rendered, in the opinion of fome men, both neceflary and venerable. He did not charge the present Administration with the creation of them; but he would advise them not to maintain them merely because they had been antiently created. The times were now different from those in which they had been established; and a wife Minister would always conform to the circumstances of the times: he would not fay, that because in the days of the first James, of the Tudors, and Plantagenets, fuch and such places had existed, they must necefforily continue for ever; the moment a general desire of the people was expressed for their abolition, fuch a defire ought to be complied with. Establishing thus a reason why Ministers ought not to oppose his plan, he began to open it to the House; observing at the fame time, that he was well aware how

invidious the task was which he had under taken, how difagreeable to his own feelings, and how alien to his affections, as he was well convinced that reform, in the eyes of the world, bordered clote upon unkindness.

His standard of reformation, he said, he would erect first in the principality of Wales; then in the Duchy of Lancafter; and lastly, in the Duchy of Cornwall, and County Palatine of Chefter.

Mr. Burke, hewing a very intimate knowledge of the conttitutions of these four jurifdictions, very ludicroufly pointed out the reason why the King of England had frittered down his dignity into Dukedoms and Earldoms. The principality of Wales, he faid, was, in territory, equal to about a seventh part of England-in value to a fiftieth; and yet had its courts of justice separate from those of England; and the number of its judges was equal to a fourth of those who fat in Westminsterhall. Lancaster had also its separate jurifdictions, its judges, and the exchequer. Chefter had its judges, and its exchequer. Cornwall had its court of Stannaries, and other jurifdictions. From all these the Crown derived very little emolument, for the greateit part of the revenue was confumed in the payment of officers; and out of Lancafter he believed his Majesty did not draw full 4000l. a year; but his influence there was great; and the property he had in that county feemed to answer no other end than to create and support an undue influence of the Crown.

These four counties he proposed to have entirely united to England; and the favings made by the abolition of offices applied to the public use. As the labour of the English judges would become fomewhat greater by this union, he suggested that an additional judge might be appointed, to fit in Westminster-hall, and to be taken from among the present Welch judges.

The vast chaces and forests belonging to the Crown in the different parts of the kingdom he proposed to sell, and appropriate the money arifing from the fale to public utes.

The Board of Works was to him another great object of reformation. He could not fee, by any means, for what purpose it was suffered to exist, unless it was merely to squander the money of the nation; for he would be bold to say, that, during the last seven years, the Gentlemen of that Board had not built as much as a pigeon-houte; and yet they applied during

3

that period for 400,000l. to discharge a debt of that amount, contracted by them: -Parliament had granted as much more in the seven years! preceding the last seven : -in all 800.000l. in fourteen years, a fum sufficient to build a finer palace than any at present in Europe. In that enormous sum he did not include the money expended in improvements about Buckinghamhouse, for which Parliament had made an exclufive provifion. This Board he thought should be abolished, as its duties could just as well be discharged, and at infinitely less expence, by an architect who should lay his estimates before the Trea. fury Board, the Lords of which should fee that the work was properly performed.

The next object of reformation be trembled to undertake. It was the expendi ture of the civil lift. Tocurtail would never. answer the end of his plan; an abolition of offices was indispensably neceffary. A noble Earl in the other House (Talbot) had declared, that all his attempts at reformation were in vain ; his endeavours were stopped even in the kitchen, where he found that his Majesty's turnspit was a Member of Parliament. The fervants of the Household had, from a principle of economy, been put on board-wages; yet their attendance at Court being neceffary, the Steward of the Household had been obliged to provide tables for them all; fo that, with their board-wages in their poc. kets, they boarded in the palace, doubly a burthen to the nation.

His reformation should then begin with the Board of Green-cloth, which at pres fent was totally unneceffary, though formerly it had been a great tribunal, when the attendants on the Court, over whom the jurisdiction of that Board was establithed, were as numerous as an army. At present, it answered no other end than to afford a finecure establishment for Members of Parliament who were totally dependent on the Court.

The places of Treasurer of the Chamber, Wardrobe, &c. Clerk of the Kitchen, Buttery, Pantry, Ewry, Keeper of the Jewel-office, &c. were equally unneceffary, and fupported only for the purpose of influence; they were, confequently, fit objects for reformation. Some noininal finecure places, occupied by Peers, difgraced the Peerage, and were burthen fome to the nation, fuch as Keeper of Buck, Fox, and other Hounds. Every one knew that Lords were not reaily dogkeepers, no more than a Member of Parliament was really a turnfpit; but the pub