Mr. E. P. GUINANE,

New York, N. Y., November 10, 1953.

Investigator, Committee on Agriculture and Forestry,

Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C.

DEAR MR. GUINANE: This will acknowledge receipt of your letter of November 5. The imports for the years 1948 to 1952, inclusive, are as follows: Barley: None.

Bushels

1948_

1949-51 1952

92, 544

40,000

In addition to the figures which you already have for imports of wheat, there were imported in 1952 about 95,000 bushels.

We trust that this is the information which you desire.

Very truly yours,

GRAUBARD & MOSKOVITZ. By IRVING MOSKOVITZ.

Senator THYE. Mr. Kellogg, when did you first import some of this wheat from Canada?

Mr. KELLOGG. In 1951.

Senator THYE. In the year of 1951?

Mr. KELLOGG. Yes.

Senator THYE. Was it damaged when it came under the reduced tariff?

Mr. KELLOGG. Yes.

Senator THYE. As a feed wheat?

Mr. KELLOGG. Yes, sir.

Senator THYE. How many bushels did you first bring in, in 1951? Mr. KELLOGG. Have you got that for us?

Senator THYE. Will you tell us how many bushels?

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. We have additional information, although it is not called for by the subpena.

Senator THYE. I think Senator Young was proper and if Mr. Kellogg was in the import business as well as the export business, and if they brought imported grain into this country and some oats, and barley or rye, or any of those crops from a foreign country, it is information that would be proper in this questioning. Mr. Kellogg, you stated 1951 was the first year?

Mr. KELLOGG. Yes.

Senator THYE. But the Bunge Corp. itself had brought in some of this wheat in Canada at an early time, October 1950?

Mr. KELLOGG. That I wouldn't know, Senator.

Senator THYE. You yourself, as Mr. Kellogg, of the Bunge Corp., had your first transaction in the year of 1951, is that the statement that you want for the record?

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I think the Senator means, Mr. Kellogg, did you as an officer of the Bunge Corp.?

Senator THYE. He is one and the same?

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Mr. Kellogg doesn't have access to our records. Mr. Henderson, who succeeded him, is an officer of the Bunge Corp., and all these things have been prepared, in the form of a memorandum.

Senator THYE. That was beyond the year of 1950 and 1951 and Mr. Kellogg was president and a partner of the Kellogg Milling Co. Mr. KELLOGG. General manager.

Senator THYE. And then the transaction of bringing in this wheat from Canada was the Kellogg Milling Co.'s transaction in October 1950?

Mr. KELLOGG. I was wrong; it was 1950, that was brought in for Bunge.

Senator THYE. That was brought in for Bunge. It was not brought in for the Kellogg Milling Co.?

Mr. KELLOGG. No, sir.

Senator THYE. And you were acting as an agent for the Bunge Corp. of New York?

Mr. KELLOGG. I was an officer of the company.

Senator THYE. So that you actually were bringing that grain in? Mr. KELLOGG. Yes, sir.

Senator THYE. So that you knew how much grain was brought in in the fall of 1950?

Mr. KELLOGG. 869,000.

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. May I add, Mr. Kellogg has never seen the records before this? Mr. Henderson is the one who is familiar with it.

Senator THYE. Mr. Kellogg could not answer from the amount of wheat that was brought in in the fall of 1950 and therefore you were assisting him by laying the records of the Bunge Corp. before him and showing him where he would find the exact amount of grain that was imported from Canada in the fall of 1950.

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. That is exactly correct.

Senator THYE. So that from here now, we know that you will assist Mr. Kellogg in showing the records if and when his memory does not carry the exact figures.

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. That is correct, sir; the exact number of bushels imported.

Senator THYE. Do you care to ask any question on this point, Senator Young?

Senator YOUNG. Yes. I would like the exact number of bushels? Mr. KELLOGG. 869,460 bushels.

Senator THYE. And that was in October or late fall of 1950?

Mr. KELLOGG. That was from September 23 until December 4, 1950. Senator THYE. Now then, what did you do with that 869,000 bushels?

Mr. KELLOGG. We sold it to various people, exporters or people at the gulf who, I understand bought it.

Senator THYE. Have you in your records a list of the names of all the people to whom you sold this wheat?

Mr. KELLOGG. Yes, sir.

Senator THYE. Let's have that for the record.

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. May I make this point; it is a subject which I discussed informally with Mr. Guinane. We have done our best and we will continue to cooperate with every agency of the Government furnishing information and we have not denied anything to anybody. I did, however, suggest to Mr. Guinane to raise the point with the Senators that this information, while we want to make it available to the Senate, contains a lot of information which our competitors were determined and will love to have. We would regret it if it were put in the public record.

Senator THYE. Would it be embarrassing to you and to other people in the grain business if it became known what the Kellogg Milling Co. or the Bunge Corp. of New York had sold to people in the grain business, or that it was either with exporters or millers, or feed mixers, or some such a legitimate business that you have transacted? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. No, no. That is not correct; what I meantSenator THYE. This is a transaction. In other words, you bought some grain and took it in from Canada?

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Yes.

Senator THYE. The grain came in under a reduced tariff?

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Yes, sir.

Senator THYE. And it came classified as unfit for human consumption?

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Yes.

Senator THYE. And isn't it perfectly proper and permissible that other members including the taxpayers that may have been involved in the financing of the subsidies or the subsidy payments, know exactly who purchased this wheat that was permitted to come in under reduced tariff because it was labeled and classified as a wheat unfit for human consumption?

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. At the request of the Senate, we have prepared a list of all of our sources, the dates, the steamer, the amount, the cost, the basis, the freight, the f. o. b., the destination, our expenses, port dates, f. o. b., place, the duty paid and what was shipped in bond. We have provided all the detail that the Senate could possibly require and we want the Senate to have it, but we are not trying to protect anybody. Whatever the Senate wants to put on the record, it will put on the record, whether I like it or not. It is not our customer we want to protect. We want to protect ourselves against giving information to our competitors, people who are in the same business and who do the same kind of business and who are in competition with us-there are several dozen grain firms who do.

Senator THYE. How many come under a reduced tariff?

Mr. Moskovitz. I am sure the customs could answer that better than I could.

Senator THYE. I would imagine so.

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I would imagine dozens.

Senator THYE. It is to that group that you would not want to disclose this information?

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. We have figures that we brought in, which is a matter of customs records, but from whom and to whom and our overhead price and how we do business, these things are in our own business operations. We think these are secret which we think the Senate should have, and we don't think it is fair everybody else should have it. I say, through the course of this hearing, we do not wish to give competitors such information. Again, I want to emphasize that. Senator THYE. You are giving the price you receive for this grain. All I ask for are the names of the companies you sold this grain to. All I wanted are the names of the companies which bought and to whom you disposed of 869,445 bushels of Canadian wheat imported as a conditioned wheat that was unfit for human consumption. All I want to know is who did you sell it to. We don't want to know how much money nor what you paid in Canada per bushel. All we want to know are the firms' names and these people you sold this wheat to.

We do not ask you to disclose any of your financial transactions. At least, I think my question is not unreasonable, and I will turn to Senator Young.

Senator YOUNG. It is a proper question and it is information that the public should have.

STATEMENT OF CHESTER NICHOLS, COUNSEL FOR BUNGE CORP., MINNEAPOLIS, MINN.

Mr. NICHOLS. My name is Chester Nichols and I would like to inject at this point.

Senator THYE. And you are with a law firm here in the city?

Mr. NICHOLS. I am with the firm of Nichols, Mullin, Farnand & Lee, located at 912 Northwestern Bank Building, Minneapolis.

Senator THYE. And you are acting as counsel for the Bunge Corp.? Mr. NICHOLS. Local counsel for the Bunge Corp.

Senator THYE. And also Mr. Kellogg, the former manager for the Bunge Corp.?

Mr. NICHOLS. Yes.

Senator THYE. You are representing the Bunge Corp. and insofar as Mr. Kellogg, you are not acting as counsel for him?

Mr. NICHOLS. The information, Senator, which has been gathered maybe is too comprehensive. I thought you wanted more than what is contained in here. It contains a great mass of information, other than you have apparently need for, so with these papers to be put in the record, which we planned on doing for your information, they would give a great mass of confidential detail that the corporation is trying to protect and keep out of the hands of the competitors.

Senator THYE. I was not asking for prices because prices would be information that might be valuable to the competitor but what I am asking for is just the names to whom this grain was sold. It seems like a perfectly reasonable question because if I went out here and bought some grain and I disposed of that grain, it wouldn't disclose any information as to what I paid for it or what net profit I got out of the transaction, if I said I sold it to Bill Smith down here on Four Corners. That is about all we are asking. Did Bunge Corp. sell 869,465 bushels of this grain and if so to whom? The first transaction was in the fall of 1950, you see?

Senator YOUNG. Let's have the information.
Senator THYE. Let's have it for the record.

Mr. KELLOGG. We have a record of anybody we sold it to. Senator THYE. Read it into the record. Now, you are speaking about 869,000 bushels?

Mr. KELLOGG. Yes. Just the names or the firm and the names of people that purchased it?

Senator YOUNG. And the number of bushels, because it is 869,460 bushels of wheat imported from Canada in the fall of 1950 and we just want to know where did you dispose of it?

Mr. KELLOGG. On October 9 and 10, we sold to Archer Daniels Midland Co., a total of 27,000 bushels.

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Read them off as they appear, and then try to add them up.

Senator THYE. You tell us how much you sold.

Mr. KELLOGG. These will be approximate bushels?
Senator THYE. Yes.

Mr. KELLOGG. Archer Daniels, 27,000.
Senator THYE. Who are the others?

Mr. KELLOGG. LaGrange Mills from October 6 to November 21, approximately 12,000 bushels; Transit Grain Co., Fort Worth, Tex., approximately 150,000 bushels; Commander-Larabee Co., Minneapolis, 6,000 bushels; Kellogg Milling Co., 1,300 bushels; Burdick Grain Co., approximately 1,700 bushels; Hallet & Carey Co., Minneapolis, 2,300 bushels; Standard Milling Co., Minneapolis, approximately 1,500 bushels

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Senator, it may facilitate if you have before you the document from which Mr. Kellogg is reading.

Senator THYE. It is perfectly satisfactory. We can read the record. We can read back in the record. I was just putting these figures down, not listing the names.

Mr. KELLOGG. That was a total of 217,471 bushels.

Senator THYE. What is the balance?

Mr. KELLOGG. That was all that was sold in 1950.

Senator THYE. You may continue.

Mr. KELLOGG. Then, from January 16, 1951, to March 27, 1951, we sold to Archer Midland Co. approximately 43,000 bushels. From October 16 to November 30, 1951, we sold to the Walsh Grain Co., Minneapolis, approximately 47,000 bushels. On March 28, we sold to the Moorhead Seed & Grain Co., Moorhead, Minn., approximately 7,500 bushels. September 4, we sold to Ishmert-Hinkle Milling Co., approximately 4,000 bushels. From January 4, 1951, until July 1951, we sold to the Lagrange Mills at Red Wing, Minn., approximately 43,000 bushels. From February 23, until June 6, we sold to the Kimball Milling Co. approximately 160,000 bushels. February 23, until April 10, we sold to the Kansas Flour Mills Co. 315,000 bushels.

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE MCGOWEN, COUNSEL FOR
BUNGE CORP., NEW YORK, N. Y.

(Witness sworn.)

Mr. McGowEN. George McGowen is my name and I am a lawyer, and I also represent Bunge Corp., and I see Mr. Kellogg is going through your amount that is imported in 1950, because now he is going through the sales in 1951. Obviously, a certain amount of the 1950 wheat would have to be sold in 1951 and I have here now 285,000 and he has passed answering your question.

Senator THYE. 869,465, that is the total amount of wheat that was imported in the calendar year 1950, and consequently, you only sold 217,000 in 1950, so you have a balance of more than 600,000 bushels which you have got to dispose of in the next calendar year.

Mr. McGowEN. You have no place to stop when he gets through. Senator THYE. Now, Mr. Kellogg has given the amount of grain which totaled up to the amount of wheat that came up in the fall of 1950. Then we will proceed to let his record stand and we will pick up some other questioning back to the imports in 1951 and 1952. We will go back into the record at the present time, and we are trying to get the report on what was brought in 1950. Will you proceed? Mr. KELLOGG. Will you total them up, Irving?

Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Yes.