either with the Duluth customs and the last point, or between Duluth and Minneapolis, I can't get it straight here why Minneapolis entered in here. Mr. KELLOGG. I don't want to testify for Mr. Vosika and I didn't handle the transaction. If you would like if I can to tell you about it but I don't want to testify for him, but the point I want to make is that the T. and E. entry gave the description. The transaction had already taken place and as far as the customs officials were concerned the transaction was ended. Senator YOUNG. I don't think the customs officers had any authority at all to permit this wheat to get into a channel for human consumption. I think they ought to be prosecuted. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Then I think you will have to go to Canada. Senator YOUNG. Who are the people who are mixed up in this deal? Mr. GUINANE. The ruling in Washington was not made until after the customs officials at Minneapolis made it on their own initiative. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. What was it changed to? Senator YOUNG. That theory is that this was clearly outside of the law. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. That is the description with which you measure wheat "unfit for human consumption." Senator YOUNG. In the first place there is a quota set up for 800,000 bushels of wheat that is to be brought in for human consumption. When you raise that amount you are clearly outside of the law. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. As far as my knowledge was concerned it was not made by this collector. It was made by the collector in Washington. Senator YOUNG. Whoever he was I think he should be prosecuted for going outside of the law. Mr. GUINANE. Mr. Kellogg, I want to ask you about this letter. It is a letter written by Walter Vosika, dated August 20, 1951, written to George Sassman. Who is George Sassman? Mr. KELLOGG. He is Hallet & Carey's manager at Duluth. Mr. GUINANE (reading): The steamship Starbuck will clear Fort William Saturday, April 21, for Kellogg Milling Co. at Duluth, Minn., for P V unloading. This is wheat (without consular invoice) moving in bond and goes into G. O. at P V, Duluth. That is a general order? Mr. KELLOGG. Yes. Mr. GUINANE (reading): We must get 15 cars loaded for bill of lading date not later than Wednesday to avoid expiration of a permit-permits almost impossible to get. the 25th. Some expires Now do you recall seeing this letter? Mr. KELLOGG. No, I don't but Mr. GUINANE. You know what permits he is talking about? Mr. GUINANE. Permits to permit wheat to go to distressed nations to various ports. Who issued this? Mr. KELLOGG. I don't know. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I hate to interrupt but I think it should be clarified as we go along. These permits are issued by the railroad authority in Washington to see that the ports are not clogged up at one time. It had nothing to do with distressed nations but just to see to it that the elevators did not get more carloads than they could unload at one time. Senator YOUNG. It was more of a question of shortage of cars. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. That is right. There was a certain embargo that you couldn't bring in wheat without a permit. Mr. GUINANE. You knew those permits were not issued to Transit Grain Co.? Mr. KELLOGG. No, sir, I did not know about that. Mr. GUINANE. Those permits belonged to Commodity Credit Corporation so they could move wheat, and send it to distressed nations. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Bunge and others got them from CCC. Mr. GUINANE. These permits as we will show were obtained from Commodity Credit Corporation to move its wheat and not mixed Canadian wheat at all. [Reading:] With boat unloading Monday-it leaves little time to get out 15 cars, because: Each car must contain minimum of 2,000 bushels and a maximum of the load limit of the car. Will you see Mr. Churchill Saturday so that they will have fair notice. It might avoid possible delay as cars of above requirements-must be hand-picked. When you give me railroad you are shipping on-I will furnish routing to fit. You may use cars of any lines passing through Minneapolis-Soo, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Milwaukee, Omaha. Yours very truly, Then there is a footnote: (Signed) WALTER J. VOSIKA. George, bill of lading must read wheat, customs papers must read wheat. Check with Ted and railroads to be sure cars do not leave Duluth under any conditions with the terminology "unfit for human consumption.' Mr. GUINANE. Now, why was it so imporrtant, Mr. Kellogg? Mr. KELLOGG. That I don't know. Mr. GUINANE. You have no information about that at all? Mr. KELLOGG. No, sir. Mr. GUINANE. And you are head of Bunge Corp., and Kellogg Milling Co.? Mr. KELLOGG. That is correct. Mr. GUINANE. And you don't have any idea why it was so important to get rid of that phrase "unfit for human consumption"? Mr. KELLOGG. No, sir. Mr. GUINANE. When did you first make arrangements to clear that Canadian "unfit-for-human-consumption" wheat through the elevator at New Orleans, La.? Mr. KELLOGG. What was that again? Mr. GUINANE. When did you first make arrangements to ship or clear through the New Orleans elevator? Mr. KELLOGG. We didn't make any arrangements. Mr. GUINANE. Did you ship any wheat at all? Mr. KELLOGG. Yes. Mr. GUINANE. Did you just ship it down there without any arrangements? Mr. KELLOGG. We just shipped to whomever we sold it to depending upon their instructions. Mr. GUINANE. You had no arrangements with Mr. Richeson or anyone about shipping wheat down there? Mr. KELLOGG. No, sir. Mr. GUINANE. How much wheat was shipped through the Bunge Corp.? Mr. KELLOGG. The amount of Canadian unfit wheat? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. About 140,000 bushels. That is Bunge. I am Mr. MUSKOVITZ. When you say "ship" I want to say "clear". I am talking about the wheat that Bunge shipped down for itself. not talking about wheat that customers said it sent. I couldn't tell you about that because they sell something and the customers says ship it to Kansas City or ship it here, or to any one of a thousand places. Mr. GUINANE. So there could have been a whole lot more of this Canadian wheat that the others ordered shipped through the New Orleans elevators. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. That is possible. Just to make it clear, the picture that I gave was the wheat Bunge himself shipped. Mr. GUINANE. About how much did Bunge ship through New Orleans? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. As I recall it was 200,000 bushels. Mr. GUINANE. Two hundred thousand bushels? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. That was sold to Fox; was it not? Mr. KELLOGG. Yes, sir. Mr. GUINANE. Did Kellogg Milling ship any wheat to the elevator for itself on account? Mr. KELLOGG. No, sir. Mr. GUINANE. None whatsoever? Mr. KELLOGG. None at all. Mr. GUINANE. So the same thing was true, more wheat as far as Bunge was concerned could have been shipped through the elevator in New Orelans that was clearly sold to someone else. Mr. KELLOGG. That is possible. Mr. GUINANE. Did you ever have any conversation with Mr. Winters? Mr. KELLOGG. None whatsoever. Mr. GUINANE. You referred Julian Scott to him? Mr. KELLOGG. No. Mr. GUINANE. What happened to your Canadian wheat you sent to the New Orleans elevator? Mr. KELLOGG. The Kellogg wheat was sold to C. B. Fox, and what C. B. Fox did with it I couldn't tell you. Mr. GUINANE. Do you know if it got on the International Wheat Agreement program? Mr. KELLOGG. He told me it did not. Mr. GUINANE. It did not? Mr. KELLOGG. He told me he had to keep it just so long. Mr. GUINANE. Did the Bunge Corp. or Kellogg Milling Co. pay any money to the superintendent or anybody at the New Orleans elevator for mixing Canadian wheat? Mr. KELLOGG. No, sir. Mr. GUINANE. Did you pay any money for it? Mr. KELLOGG. No. Mr. GUINANE. Neither Bunge nor Kellogg Milling? Mr. KELLOGG. That is right. Mr. GUINANE. And you did not have any conversations with anyone at New Orleans? Mr. KELLOGG. No. Mr. GUINANE. Did you ever receive any information with regard to anyone down there mixing out your wheat? Mr. KELLOGG. We didn't have any to mix out down there. Mr. GUINANE. You don't recall any conversations? Mr. KELLOGG. In fact we had no wheat down there while I was with Bunge or Kellogg Milling. We never shipped any wheat that wasn't sold to somebody. Mr. GUINANE. How much money did Bunge Corp., Hallet & Carey, or Kellogg Milling, or any of the affiliates spend on entertainment of the officials of the Commodity Credit Corporation or elevator officials and employees at Galveston and New Orleans? Mr. KELLOGG. None that I know of. Mr. GUINANE. Wouldn't you be likely to know while you were vice president of Bunge Corp. of Minneapolis? Mr. KELLOGG. There would be no reason for us to know. Mr. GUINANE. If payment were made by Bunge of Kansas City would you not know? Mr. KELLOGG. No; nothing that went through Kansas City. Mr. GUINANE. Did you give any of your salesmen an expense account to pay off any officials of Commodity Credit Corporation or elevator people at all? Mr. KELLOGG. No, sir. Mr. GUINANE. You have absolutely no knowledge of that? Mr. KELLOGG. I know it was not done. Mr. GUINANE. When did you first learn that Transit Grain Co. officials had received gifts like $150,000 in graft? Mr. KELLOGG. When I saw it in our newspaper. Mr. GUINANE. That the Transit Grain paid $150,000 in graft? Mr. KELLOGG. When I saw it in the Chicago Tribune. Mr. GUINANE. Did Julian Scott in the conversations he had with you by telephone tell you of these payments? Mr. KELLOGG. No. Mr. GUINANE. Didn't he tell you Winters did the same thing at New Orleans? Mr. KELLOGG. No; he did not. Mr. GUINANE. How much profit did Kellogg Milling Co. make in 1950, 1951, and 1952 on the purchase and sale of Canadian wheat "unfit for human consumption"? Mr. MCGOWAN. Bunge Corp.? Mr. GUINANE. Let's take Kellogg Milling Co. first. Mr. KELLOGG. Kellogg Milling Co. for the 3 years showed a net profit of approximately $75,000 which figured 2.63; this is of a cent per bushel. Mr. GUINANE. That is on the Canadian grain? Mr. KELLOGG. Two and five-eighths is about what it figures. Mr. GUINANE. And what was the total profit made by the Bunge Corp. made on "unfit for human consumption" Canadian wheat during the years of 1950, 1951, and 1952? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. You want the total of the 3 years? Mr. GUINANE. Yes. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. The total was, the best we could figure it, was $333,613.08. Mr. GUINANE. How much subsidy was collected by the Bunge Corp. during the year of 1950? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Of this wheat? Mr. GUINANE. On this wheat. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. That I would have no way of knowing. Mr. GUINANE. You know that he has shipped a great deal of wheat from time to time? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I could get that figure if you would like. Mr. GUINANE. Never mind, we will get it from another witness. Senator THYE. Let's get this question answered correctly for the record. Do you want the form from the Bunge firm relative to the subsidy collected? If they do I would like to have it turned in in the form of a report. Mr. GUINANE. I would like that, yes. Senator THYE. Then you will turn in the report for the record. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. You want us to bring to the next session information concerning the amount of subsidy collected by the Bunge Corp. on the Canadian wheat "unfit for human consumption." Senator THYE. You can turn it in for the record. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I didn't complete this answer yet. I have it worked out to a percentage per bushel. It works out to 5.8 cents per bushel. There was a question asked this morning, and I hate to testify from hearsay, as a lawyer it bothers me a little bit, but the Senator asked a question what the relationship was in connection with this wheat that we bought from Bunge, Ltd., of Canada. It is a separate company. As I understand it, the wheat was bought on a commission basis and I think it made a fraction of a cent. Mr. KELLOGG. A very small fraction. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. How much was that? Mr. KELLOGG. A quarter of a cent, that was paid to the Winnipeg office for that wheat. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. That means there was no profit made on that same wheat in Canada. Senator THYE. There was no profit? Mr. KELLOGG. Yes, a quarter of a cent. Senator THYE. Yes, the Canadian office made a quarter of a cent as their commission. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. After they paid their expenses I don't see how they could have made any profit. Senator THYE. But they received a quarter of a cent. You may proceed. Mr. GUINANE. I wanted to read Mr. Kellogg from Public Law 421, 81st Congress, which relates to the International Wheat Agreement which was approved October 27, 1949. Paragraph D (63 Stat. 945): Any person who knowingly and wilfully exports wheat or wheat flour from the United States, or who knowingly and wilfully imports wheat or wheat flour into the United States, for consumption therein in excess of the quantities of wheat or wheat flour permitted to be exported or imported as the case may be under regulations issued by the President, shall forfeit to the United States a sum equal to two times the market value at the time of the commission of any such |