Mr. MOSKOVITZ, May I ask Mr. Henderson one question? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Are these documents taken from the files of the Bunge Corp.? Mr. HENDERSON. Yes, sir, they are. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Do they represent sales of Canadian wheat to various people? Mr. HENDERSON. Yes, sir, it is. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I don't want to encumber the record. Can we deem it necessary that they be part of the files. It is not necessary they be physically a part. Senator THYE. That is all of those documents that are in a bundle right there? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Yes, sir. Senator THYE. That is what you are asking for? Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Yes. Senator THYE. We will refer to them in the record. However, if any one of you deemed it would make the record more important and more intelligent to the reader, it will be incorporated. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I think I can summarize them briefly because I know the record will be long enough, as it is. Senator THYE. All right, summarize them for the record. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. These are representative sales invoices and the like, such as this one is to Commander Larrabee, f. o. b., Duluth; Norris Grain, Canadian No, 6; Green Milling, Canadian frosted damaged, 57 and 15 percent damage; Burdic Grain, No. 6 wheat, Canadian; Archer Daniels Midland Co., sample grade, at $2 per bushel, No. 5 wheat, Canadian; again Archer Daniels, excess 30 percent damage, No. 6, Canadian; Doeboy feed wheat; Osborne McMillan, Canadian No. 5 wheat. Osborne again; Moorhead Seed & Grain, Canadian frost-damaged wheat, 50 or better; General Mills, S. G. Northern Spring, Canadian origin. I think that is enough to do it. Senator THYE. Mr. King you will be our next witness, I believe. Mr. GUINANE. That is all, Mr. Henderson. Senator THYE. Mr. King, you have not been sworn, but we want to ask you a few questions, so you will raise your right hand? (Mr. King is sworn.) TESTIMONY OF KENNETH KING, OFFICE OF COMPLIANCE AND INVESTIGATION PRODUCTION AND MARKETING ADMINISTRATION, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, CHICAGO. ILL. Mr. GUINANE. And you are a special accountant of the Office of Compliance and Investigation of the United States Department of Agriculture? Mr. KING. That is right. Mr. GUINANE. And you made an investigation in connection with the sale of wheat by Bunge Corp. to Flour Mills of America? Mr. KING. Yes. Mr. GUINANE: And of the repurchase of flour by the Bunge Corp. from the Four Mills of America, have you? Mr. KING. Yes; on the flour only, as it affected the Flour Mills of America. Mr. GUINANE. Now, on the flour that was sold by the Flour Mills of America to the Bunge Corp., did that flour contain-was that flour manufactured in part or the whole from Canadian wheat unfit for human consumption? Mr. KING. Yes. Mr. GUINANE. And where did you get that information? Mr. KING. From the Flour Mills of America. Mr. GUINANE. And did they tell you where they obtained the Canadian wheat from which they manufactured the flour they sold to the Bunge Corp.? Mr. KING. Yes; from the Bunge Corp., of Minneapolis. Mr. GUINANE. That is all. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I don't want to delay this hearing, I think Mr. King is talking about the same transaction Mr. Bachmann was, and since we are going to develop this further, I want to make the same comments. This is a cross-section. Senator THYE. Mr. King answered every question that was asked in a positive manner. He never referred to the fact that he couldn't recall and every question asked of Mr. King was answered in a positive way. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. Mr. King will be available in Galveston? Mr. BACHMANN. Mr. King has to be in court in Dallas on Monday. He will be in Dallas, Tex., next Monday. Senator THYE. Mr. King answered in the affirmative every question that was asked him. He held no reservation on either his reply or on the question and he was under oath. If Mr. King needs to be called on it in some future time, Mr. King can be reached. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. All of the questions involving this transaction have not been asked of Mr. King. Senator THYE. We have asked these questions of Mr. King and he has answered us in the affirmative, and in the event we need any further information, why the committee will find Mr. King and make him available so that will be taken care of. We are conducting this committee hearing. You are not, Mr. Moskovitz. I am sorry to inform you that you are not running this committee this afternoon. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I appreciate Senator THYE. We have given you the privilege to participate and I have been most patient. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I certainly do appreciate it, and I want to say that for the record. Senator THYE. Mr. Sassman will be sworn, now. (Mr. Sassman is sworn.) TESTIMONY OF GEORGE A. SASSMAN, HALLET & CAREY LTD., DULUTH, MINN. Senator THYE. You may question. Mr. GUINANE. Mr. Sassman, I want to show you a photostatic copy of a transportation entry and manifest of goods subject to customs inspection and permit. These are entries 4, 5, 6, and 7, and I will ask you if you have seen those before? Mr. SASSMAN. Yes, I have. Mr. GUINANE. Have you seen those? Mr. SASSMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. GUINANE. Tell us the circumstances in which you signed these entry documents? Mr. SASSMAN. Well, I signed them on the authority from the Minneapolis office. Mr. GUINANE. You are the employee of Hallet & Carey? Mr. SASSMAN. That is right. Mr. GUINANE. The manager of the Hallet & Carey Duluth office? Mr. SASSMAN. That is right. Mr. GUINANE. You were doing this for the Kellogg Milling Co.? Mr. SASSMAN. That is right. Mr. GUINANE. Did you have any instructions as to how these manifests should be made out? Mr. SASSMAN. No. Mr. GUINANE. Mr. Svensson made all the manifests; is that correct? Mr. SASSMAN. Yes. Mr. GUINANE. Ordinarily, he would sign them? Mr. SASSMAN. I don't know. Mr. GUINANE. How did it happen that you signed them? Mr. SASSMAN. I had authority from the Minneapolis office to sign them. Mr. GUINANE. Who requested you to sign them? Mr. SASSMAN. Mr. Vosika. Mr. GUINANE. Why did he tell you to sign them instead of Mr. Svensson? Mr. SASSMAN. I wouldn't know. Mr. GUINANE. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Svensson at the time of signing these documents; do you remember? Mr. SASSMAN. I don't recall. Mr. GUINANE. Was it because Mr. Svensson was hesitant about signing these documents because of the way they described the wheat? Mr. SASSMAN. There was nothing said at the time. I wouldn't know. Mr. GUINANE. Do you know what kind of wheat these documents covered? Mr. SASSMAN. I signed them, to the best of my knowledge it wasto the best of my knowledge it was wheat. Mr. GUINANE. Didn't you have personal knowledge that it was wheat for this country that was unfit for human consumption? Mr. SASSMAN. Not personal knowledge. Mr. GUINANE. Mr. Vosika simply told you to sign some documents that Mr. Svensson had? Mr. SASSMAN. That is right. Mr. GUINANE. Had you done that before for Mr. Svensson? Mr. GUINANE. That is all the questions I have. Senator THYE. That is all, Mr. Sassman; thank you. Inasmuch as the committee has called on the witnesses that we wanted to hear this afternoon, and we have heard the witnesses, now Mr. Moskovitz, if you should desire to clarify the record in any manner as the counselors for the Bunge Corp. or any of the other parties, why, we will proceed for at least another 20 minutes or 15 minutes. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I had not expected this unexpected courtesy. Senator THYE. You will find us always trying to be courteous. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. This is an additional unexpected courtesy. Senator THYE. We had these witnesses that we wanted to hear and we have heard them. Now we can return to you to extend to you further courtesies. We will put it that way, sir. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. It is very difficult for an attorney to relate things that are told to him, because as the Senator knows, that is the rankest kind of hearsay and the best way to produce evidence is when you have a man who makes a statement take the witness stand and testify so, I don't feel I personally can or am in a position to testify. I just recall one thing that one statement that I did make about which I was apparently in error, but it happens to stick in my mind. I mentioned in-bond shipments and the problem of the Department of Agriculture, making an inspection at the port of entry and that is the one that governs for the purpose of determination of the duty and apparently as Mr. Vaughan and Mr. Horan testified to, that every time a customs man handles a shipment he makes an additional inspection. Not, that this is important, but it does show the care with which customs exercises and does its work in seeing to it that the shipments remain in bond and remain under the proper classification all the way through. I think also, Senator, that Mr. Bachmann, very fairly, stated that the Bunge Corp. have never denied any information on any subject, including this one and that he and his staff, the customs people and Mr. Guinane, and everybody have had full access to our files without subpena. It is not particularly important as far as the facts are concerned, it does show what our attitude about this whole affair is. I want to make it absolutely clear. I also ask open minds on the Flour Mills of America transaction about which I feel very strongly because that is the one transaction that is so clear and so unequivical that the story told by Mr. Bachmann left a misleading impression. He only told half the story or one-fourth of the story, and when I started asking detailed questions he had not read the file in over a year. Anything he told the Senator was on a basis of hazy recollection, as he himself is the first to admit. I think with your permission we will have an opportunity to go into that matter again in Galveston, where the whole story will be brought out. Senator THYE. Does Mr. Bachmann care to make a reply to that? Mr. Bachmann is one of the officials of the Department of Agriculture and for that reason, he has a duty and a responsibility. If Mr. Bachmann cares to make any reply or if he cares to add anything to what he had previously stated, why he has the liberty to do so. If not, we will close the hearing here for this afternoon. Mr. BACHMANN. I don't know what way the questioning here has been going and my testimony was anticipated to be brief and give just a number of general highlights, so the situation as a whole can be understood. As I stated, I did go over the Flour Mills of America report and some other documents and the file, and I went over that very carefully and at the time, as I recall it, it was almost a year ago, I had the story in detail pretty well in my mind. However, since that time, I have been exceptionally busy not only in connection with the Canadian wheat investigation, but in connec tion with shortages. I have gone over so many reports that I just can't remember the details. Senator THYE. But you will obtain the files and you will have the members of your staff supply such other information and records that may be necessary at the Galveston hearing, such as the record that Mr. King had in his hands when he answered the few questions? Mr. BACHMANN. Yes. Senator THYE. All of this will be supplied to you so that when we resume our hearing in Galveston, you can answer every question on every document and the statements will be there. Mr. BACHMANN. I might say that some of the staff members will not be able to be there, as they are working on other matters, but that the entire file will be there as it is already on its way. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I want to be a little more accurate than I was before. Senator THYE. I thought you were always accurate. I didn't think you relied on anything that was not accurate. Mr. MOSKOVITZ. I mention this to you and Mr. Guinane. I have given Mr. Guinane the profit figure, and I should also say that the figure is correct, but I didn't tell him that it was before taxes, and we paid excess-profits taxes. So, any suggestion that was made rather loosely by the secretary was incorrect, such as 60 cents a bushel profit. I believe the Senator knows it was less than 6 cents a bushel, before taxes. Mr. NICHOLS. Just a moment, Senator. Now, my contact with this has not been too close, but I have sat here listening, as I have listened to many things over the years and something attracted my attention that it seemed to me was not quite sufficiently explored. I noticed when Mr. Kellogg testified that he didn't have anything in writing to show that he had told the purchasers that this was Canadian frosted wheat, and that the Senator was very much astonished. Now, I wasn't. While I am not testifying, we can, I think, call to mind our experiences in what is general knowledge. For instance, one day I went into the trading floor over here in the chamber and it was a bedlam and men were making all kinds of motions and nodding their heads. There were millions of dollars changing hands in a course of a few hours on that floor, relying on the personal integrity of the men who were buying and selling. Wheat, as the Senator knows, is bought and sold by word of mouth. This stuff was sold over the telephone. This wheat was not sold by correspondence. A salesman who was out on the road, he didn't sell wheat. He talked to customers and interested them, but he didn't sell them. What I mean, there is no testimony that a dollars worth of wheat was ever sold by a letter. The testimony is that it was sold by a personal visit or by word of mouth over the telephone. How could there be something in writing. There has, however, here at the last, been a great mass of documents prepared and brought from their files which do not show on the face that that great mass of these sales, these purchasers were told that it was Canadian frost-damaged wheat, and it is awfully signifi cant. It was put in, and I am sure the Senator is interested in knowing to what extent these written documents are in corroboration with the |