Mr. HICKERSON. Because of the fact, sir, that we have in effect a seven-ring circus in all of these international organizations.

Senator MCCARRAN. A seven-ring circus?

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir. And we have to have a certain number of experience, able men to help ride herd on these things and to eliminate duplications.

I will tell you, sir, what they do.

Senator MCCARRAN. One good buckaroo could do it; could he not! Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir. It is too big.

Senator MCCARRAN. I have seen some that could do it, and do it very well.

Mr. HICKERSON. I would like to have their names, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. We can get them, and they would not wear silver spurs, either.

Mr. HICKERSON. I would not mind the spurs.

Senator MCCARRAN. All right, go ahead.

Mr. HICKERSON. Mr. William Sanders is one of the senior officers. Mr. Sanders watches, as his special province, our relations in the United Nations with the Latin American countries, the relations between the United Nations and the inter-American system, and other regional organizations.

Things going on in the North Atlantic Pact organization which have a bearing on things that are happening in the United Nations, and the same thing in inter-American system and the specialized agencies.

Mr. Sanders keeps up with those things and advises me and the Secretary.

DUPLICATION WITH THE REGIONAL BUREAUS

Senator MCCARRAN. Do you not have a Latin-American desk in the State Department?

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir; but not for United Nations affairs. Senator MCCARRAN. In the State Department is there not a desk for the Far East and the Near East, and so forth?

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. But do you have another desk for this purpose! Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir; it is the over-all relationship of these regional arrangements, the North Atlantic Treaty organizations and the inter-American system that Mr. Sanders watches.

Also, we work 6 or 612 days a week, and every now and then somebody gets sick, or has to have a little leave. Mr. Sanders steps in when either Mr. Sandifer or I have to be away, to help supervise the work of the entire Bureau.

Now, the second one of these special assistants is Mr. Fierst, Mr. Herbert Fierst, who maintains our liaison with the intelligence at i public affairs areas of the Department. Everything that has ay bearing on our work which reaches us through intelligence sources he brings to my attention.

Senator MCCARRAN. What is his background?

Mr. HICKERSON. His background, sir, is this: He came to the State Department, I believe, right after he got out of the service. He w born in New York City in 1914; graduated from Harvard in 197: took his law degree at Yale; is a member of the bar of New York. He

practiced law for 2 years, went into the Board of Economic Warfare in 1942, the United States Army in 1942 to 1946. He was a captain in the overseas service.

After he got out of the military service he came to the State Department in 1946.

QUESTION OF LOYALTY CHECK

Senator MCCARRAN. Has he been screened for loyalty?

Mr. HICKERSON. He has, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. Where is that record?

Mr. HUMELSINE. He went through the regular loyalty program, Senator.

Senator MCCARRAN. The question is: Where is the record?

Mr. HUMELSINE. The record is in the Security Section of the Security Division, in the files there. He has had an FBI investigation.

Senator MCCARRAN. Does that apply also to these other two assistants to the Assistant Secretary?

Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir; we have checked every one in the United Nations Office, and we checked them very carefully all the way through.

Senator MCCARRAN. In every respect?

Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. Not only for loyalty, but for other matters as well?

Mr. HUMELSINE. That is right.

You will recall that Mr. Hiss was the head of that office, and after he left the Department and subsequent events had taken place, we were very careful.

Mr. Peurifoy started it and we have had a check since that, a very careful check of every person in there.

QUESTION OF OFFICIAL ASSOCIATION WITH ALGER HISS

Senator MCCARRAN. How many people in services we have been discussing here were in the service of the State Department in this capacity along with Mr. Hiss?

Mr. HUMELSINE. I can furnish that for the record. I have a complete story on that, but it is not many. There are none that he hired, as far as we have been able to find out, but there are quite a few that were there when he was there.

Senator FERGUSON. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question here? Senator MCCARRAN. Yes.

PERSONS IN THE SERVICE OF THE DEPARTMENT RECOMMENDED BY

ALGER HISS

Senator FERGUSON. Mr. Humelsine, does the rule prohibit the giving to congressional committees of any information on this loyalty to cover the proposition as to how many people are in the Department that have been recommended for their positions by Mr. Hiss? Mr. HUMELSINE. No, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. You say that is not prohibited; is that right? Mr. HUMELSINE. That is right.

Senator FERGUSON. Would you find that out for the committee, please!

Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir. I do not believe, sir, that there are any. Senator FERGUSON. That is what I want to find out.

Would you give us, then, the number of persons and the names of those persons that he did recommend, that may now be in the Department? That is not covered, as I understand it, by the secrecy rule.

Mr. HUMELSINE. No, sir; it is not.

I will furnish that for the record.

I have it in my office.

I can have it for you tomorrow.

(The information requested, subsequently furnished, is as follows:)

A survey has been made and no evidence was found indicating that there is any employee in the Department or the Foreign Service who was recommended for employment by Alger Hiss.

Mr. HICKERSON. Mr. Chairman, may I make a brief comment at that point?

Senator MCCARRAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. HICKERSON. When I took my job on the 9th of August 1949, because of the fact that Mr. Hiss had been associated for a time with the Office of United Nations Affairs, before I took my oath of office I went to Mr. Peurifoy and told him that I wanted to be assured that everybody in the organization had been completely investigated for loyalty.

Mr. Peurifoy assured me that that was the case, and I took my oath of office only after having that explicit assurance.

Senator MCCARRAN. That was in 1949; is that correct?

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. I just want the names and the numbers, and then the committee can pass upon the other questions as to whether or not there is any indication of disloyalty or anything else. It is not that we are casting any reflection upon your work in the Department, or Mr. Peurifoy's work in the Department.

REVIEW OF LOYALTY CASES

Might I ask along this line now, since the new rule has gone into effect under the Loyalty Board, is it the intention of the State Department to review all the cases that had been up and undecided under the old rule?

Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. It is the intention to cover it?

Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir. It is not only the intention, but it is already started. Not only are we going to investigate those that they have asked us to, that have been remanded to us, but they made a suggestion that certain of them we could make our own decision on it, whether we would or would not reinvestigate. My decision was to reinvestigate all of them.

Senator FERGUSON. All persons?

Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. If they have already been investigated you will reinvestigate them under the new rule; is that the idea?

Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir. We will go through the procedure again to make sure that there is no doubt about them.

OFFICE OF EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

Senator MCCARRAN. We have covered this item of the Office of Assistant Secretary, and we now go to the Office of Executive Director. Under this classification here on page 167 of the justifications, you show here the Office of Dependent Area Affairs. What does that mean? What is the "dependent area?"

OFFICE OF DEPENDENT AREA AFFAIRS

Mr. HICKERSON. That is an office of my bureau, Mr. Chairman. Senator MCCARRAN. Before we go into that, Senator Ferguson, let me say I brought up a matter in your absence here that I think you would be interested in, and that is as to whether or not there is any activity on the part of this office or any office of the State Department, known to this witness, which was attempting to oust the Naionalist Chinese delegation in the United Nations.

Senator FERGUSON. What was the answer?

Senator MCCARRAN. The answer was "no."

Mr. HICKERSON. The answer was an unequivocal "no"; that we have worked vigorously in exactly the opposite direction, with complete

success.

I should have added, Mr. Chairman, that the 77 votes that I referred to were all won by us except 1, and that was on a technical organization, the Universal Postal Union.

In 1950, for that meeting only, they seated the Chinese Communist representatives, and in 1951, on the 19th of May, I am happy to tell you that that vote was reversed under the strong leadership of the United States.

Today the Nationalist representative of China represents China in all of the international organizations of which China is a member. Senator FERGUSON. Could I just ask another question here, Mr. Chairman?

Senator MCCARRAN. Yes, sir.

THE CASE OF EDITH CAMERON WALL

Senator FERGUSON. Who has charge of the labor section of the United Nations, or the section that would cover the labor attachés in our embassies?

I have a clipping that I wanted to take up with someone about attempting to call a strike here to join the longshoremen of another country. You may be familiar with the case.

Mr. HUMELSINE. I am familiar with the case, Senator. Is that Edith Cameron Wall?

Senator FERGUSON. Yes.

Mr. HUMELSINE. I could go into it completely, if you care to, now. Senator FERGUSON. We can take that up a little later. I do not want to interfere here, but I just wanted to get the right person. Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir.

FUNCTION OF OFFICE

Senator MCCARRAN. Now, can you tell us what the Office of Dependent Area Affairs is?

Mr. HICKERSON. It is an office in the Bureau of United Nations Affairs that handles the task of working out our substantive policy recommendations with regard to United States policies and programs pertaining to, first, non-self-governing territories and the international trusteeship system of the United Nations, and, secondly, two regional commissions: the Caribbean Commission and the South Pacific Commission.

The first one of those responsibilities—that is, working out our policies in the United Nations with respect to non-self-governing territories and the trusteeship system-takes up the overwhelming majority of their time.

FOREIGN POLICY EFFECT OF OBLIGATION OF THE UNITED STATES UNDER

UN CHARTER

Senator FERGUSON. Along that line, on policy, you have an item on page 168:

To insure the foreign policy of the United States is consistent with the obligation of the United States under the Charter of the United Nations.

Could you give us specifically what those obligations are under that Charter, as you give them?

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir; the first and foremost obligation is not to use force or the threat of force except in the common good, which means in pursuance of United Nations obligations.

Senator FERGUSON. Is there any case where you think that there was an occasion to use force?

Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir. You just asked me to state the obligations, and I am just running through the list.

Senator FERGUSON. Yes. I am asking you as you go along whether you have had any work under that. You have not had any under that section; have you?

Mr. HICKERSON. No, I am happy to say, sir.

The second is to settle all of our disputes by peaceful means. We have had no difficulties with that as yet.

OTHER OBLIGATIONS

The third is to order our national affairs in such a way that we will be an asset in the international community, that we will follow policies that tend to raise standards of living-our own and those of the rest of the world generally.

Fourth, as regards dependent areas under our control-and we have some-our objective is to prepare them for self-government.

Senator FERGUSON. How large a staff have you on this policy? Mr. HICKERSON. There is no particular person. This is a general statement of our over-all objectives, sir. We have no person especially designated on this task No. 3.

Senator FERGUSON. You do not purport by that statement, do you, to mean that the United Nations has control of our foreign policy? Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. It is to line up with our treaty obligations under that rather than to say that they have control of our foreign policy; is that correct?

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct, sir.