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Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir. Chairman McKELLAR. When did you last have a supplemental bill ? Mr. WILBER. This is the only supplemental bill, Mr. Chairman, for 1952. It is presently before the Bureau at this time.

Senator FERGUSON. I hope you have not got two supplemental bills for 1952.

Mr. WILBER. No, sir.

Senator McCARRAN. That supplemental request is pending now before the Bureau of the Budget; is that correct?

Mr. WILBER. That is correct, Mr. Chairman. Senator McCARRAN. Why did it not come up here for consideration of this committee? Mr. WILBER. This estimate was prepared, you see, a year ago,

and it was before the development of these situations that called for the additional workload in this Bureau. Therefore, we could not anticipate them.


Senator FERGUSON. Whose job is it to try to cut down this workload ?

What I want to know is this: How do other nations operate and рау.

their share of this enormous burden of the United Nations? Mr. HICKERSON. I will try to answer that. Senator FERGUSON. Whose job is it to try to cut down?

Mr. HICKERSON. I regard it a part of my responsibility to try to cut down just as much as we can.

That is the reason why, Senator McKellar, you come to the various subdivisions of my organization where we ask for no increase.

As a taxpayer, I want to hold down the cost just as much as possible.

In the United Nations, the United States is the leader. If it does anything it is because we show the leadership. We spend relatively more on our staffs, we have bigger staffs, because we do more of the work.

Now, if the United States does not exercise the leadership, sir, nothing is done. I assure you that in Korea nothing would have been done if the United States had not taken the leadership. I assure you that China would not have been declared an aggressor unless the United States took the initiative and worked patiently with our friends to line them up behind something that we knew was right.

We would have not gotten that resolution on the economic blockade.


Senator FERGUSON. But you are not satisfied with that economic blockade.

Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. I read the Secretary's testimony, and he admits in the record that you have not accomplished that.

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct. We were not able to persuade people to go as far as we had gone. We took them as far as we could take them.

Senator FERGUSON. Have we gone the whole way on the economic blockade, or do we now sell them certain things?

Mr. HICKERSON. Do you mean the United States itself?
Senator FERGUSON. Yes, the United States.

Mr. HICKERSON. The United States in December imposed a complete embargo.

Senator FERGUSON. Is that an absolute blockade?

Mr. HICKERSON. On anything from the United States, exports and (or) imports.


Senator FERGUSON. The thing I told you the other day I wanted to ask you about is: How many ships have been transferred to foreign registry so they can carry material and aid to the Communist Chinese? From whom would I get that information?

Mr. HICKERSON. So far as I know, I would say the answer to that is “No.” We prohibited our ships from going to Chinese ports.

Senator FERGUSON. What about transferring them to Panamanian registry?

Mr. HICKERSON. There are a considerable number of Americanowned ships under Panamanian registry, but I am sure none were transferred to allow them to go into this trade.

Senator FERGUSON. Will you make a check on that, since we put the prohibition in, of all material and trade of any kind, how many American ships have been transferred to other registry, whether Panamanian or otherwise ?

Will you also follow it up with information as to whether or not we have people in this country that are avoiding that blockade.

Mr. HUMELSINE. I will get the shipping policy staff to get a complete story of that, Senator.

(The information requested appears on p. 1500.)


Chairman MCKELLAR. Getting back to the subject of economy, awhile ago you said you were responsible for any economies. What other person in the organization here or in New York has charge of that matter? Do you have somebody report to you about it?

Mr. HICKERSON. As the head of the Bureau, it is my responsibility. Chairman McKELLAR. Do you have a report on it before you?

Mr. HICKERSON. Mr. Meyer, my executive director, helps me in looking for chances to economize.

Chairman MCKELLAR. Is he present?
Mr. HICKERSON. He is right here, sir.

Chairman McKELLAR. Mr. Meyer, what item did you select and what report have you made to your chief to bring about reductions or economies in your department?

Mr. MEYER. Senator, we are continually watching the work of the personnel and adjusting them if necessary between one office and another as the workloads increase or decrease. That is particularly true of the clerical and secretarial areas where we consider ourselves understaffed and have to deploy the girls and the young men so as to use them in the best manner possible.

Chairman McKELLAR. I notice here in 1950 you had $208,240 for your "Economic and social affairs," whatever they are.

In 1951 you had the same amount and you are asking for the same amount here.

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct.

Chairman McKELLAR. And you have 35 employees under that category.

Can you explain why you show exactly the same amount of money each year? How much money do you have on hand for the present fiscal year ending June 30?

Mr. MEYER. In that office we have at present six secretarial vacancies, which we are trying to fill.

Chairman McKELLAR. How much money do you have on hand in that office now?

Mr. MEYER. With six vacancies we are probably lapsing at the rate of $18,000 a year.

Chairman MCKELLAR. How long have they been vacant?


Mr. MEYER. We were filled up the 1st of March. Since March we have had a great number of people leave us, either going to the new defense agencies, or leaving Washington.

Senator FERGUSON. Is that because they are getting promotions in other places ?

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir; they are getting more money.

Senator FERGUSON. Are they getting a jump in grade without approval?

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. MEYER. I lost 14 girls in 6 weeks, from March 1. We have new ones coming in gradually.

Senator FERGUSON. Let me ask along that line: Is there any way you can prevent transfers of that sort? What I have in mind is this: You have a girl in there, a secretary or stenographer, that is trained in the work. She has been there probably for years.

Now she comes along and goes over into another agency known as a war agency and she starts all anew at a higher salary and higher grade, and all that. Then you have to come along and hire some new help and go into a training program. Is there not some way to stop this thing since it is all in the Government?

Mr. HICKERSON. If there is, we wish somebody would tell us what it is, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Just look at the loss. You have the loss not only of the higher salary in the other agency, but also your training loss. There is no reason why a defense agency should pay more than you do. It is all Government work.

I am assuming that the work is not any harder than your work. Why should we have the loss there and then have it on a new training program all along the line?

The taxpayer is out money. Why cannot you control that? Why should the other agencies raid your agency? You would not permit it out in private industry, would you?

Mr. HUMELSINE. No, sir. We would like to control that, Senator, but, unfortunately, we do not have any control over it. It is up to the Civil Service Commission.

I understand that they do have that problem under consideration at the present time.

Senator FERGUSON. They have had it for many weeks and months. You say you have lost how many people?

Mr. MEYER. Fourteen girls in 6 weeks.

Senator FERGUSON. They should be able to solve it in a few days. They know what is going on. We are getting it here every day in hearings.

Mr. WILBER. We have actually negotiated arrangements with a number of agencies on a cooperative basis to minimize the proselyting, but there are no regulations that we can bring to bear and we have no authority over the employees' decisions as to where they wish to work.

Senator FERGUSON. But they cannot get a transfer without Civil Service approval, can they?

Mr. MEYER. They can but if they do they lose their reemployment rights in the State Department.


Chairman MCKELLAR. What are the social affairs" in that item there?

Mr. HICKERSON. Senator, that office handles economic and social affairs. Social affairs relate to removal of discriminations, working on the Covenant of Human Rights under the United Nations to guar. antee civil rights corresponding to our Bill of Rights, to people everywhere.

Chairman McKELLAR. Then this is foreign.
Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir. It is all in the UN.

Chairman MCKELLAR. It is all in the United Nations and, as I understand it, this is to put people on a higher social level in other countries than they are at the present time.

Mr. HICKERSON. Try to help bring them up to our level.

Chairman McKELLAR. Have you brought any of them up to our level? This thing surprises me, it horrifies me. This expenditure of the people's money is just horrifying.

Mr. HICKERSON. If we can do some good toward getting political rights in other countries, under a covenant of human rights corresponding to our Bill of Rights, the modest expenditure, I think, would have been very well spent.

Senator MCCARRAN. The “modest” expenditure ?

Senator FERGUSON. You do not think you are going to change these people, do you?

Mr. HICKERSON. We have to keep trying.
Senator FERGUSON. You do not have to keep trying.
Mr. HICKERSON. Well, you can't give up.

Senator FERGUSON. Show us where you have changed them. You do not think they can come over here and change us, do you?

Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Then why do you think we can go and change them?

Mr. HICKERSON. Through the United Nations we try to help them help themselves, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Sure, help themselves; but they know what they want.

Have you ever found any place where you could sell them one idea that we have here in our form of government? What are you doing along that line?

Mr. HICKERSON. Our form of government has been copied in a number of countries.

Senator FERGUSON. Where?
Mr. HICKERSON. In Australia, to a considerable extent.
Senator FERGUSON. No.
Senator McCARRAN. Not since you set up this program.
Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir; not since we set up this

program. Senator McCARRAN. It came in there of its own accord. Mr. HICKERSON. Yes; in a number of countries.

Senator ELLENDER. Do the other countries furnish any employees for the Office of Economic and Social Affairs?

Mr. HICKERSON. This is our own staff, sir, to handle our work in the United Nations. Each country has sufficient staff as it considers wise. All countries have some staff working on this subject.

There is a large amount of work in this field in the United Nations.

Senator ELLENDER. Do you know the total amount that is spent on economic and social affairs by the United Nations?

Mr. HICKERSON. I can get that and put it in the record.
Senator ELLENDER. I mean all other countries..
Mr. HICKERSON. On their own staff, sir.
Senator ELLENDER. Yes.

Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir; I do not have that. I can get it and put it in the record, put in the amount that the United Nations itself spends on these programs.

Senator ELLENDER. Would you be able to tell us what proportion, percentagewise, of all the expenses is borne by the United States ?


Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir. In the United Nations, 38.91 percent is borne by the United States.

Chairman McKELLAR. We appropriate also for the New York Office for Economic and Social Affairs. How much do they spend?

Mr. HICKERSON. They do not have any duplication of the staff. We supply all of the technical work and the instructions to enable our people to carry on our work in the United Nations.

Senator FERGUSON. You have 35 concoctors here.
Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct.

Senator FERGUSON. Just concocting some scheme that you are going to use to try to reform the world.

Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir. That covers economic affairs, the removal of discriminations.

Senator McCARRAN. What is that?
Senator ELLENDER. What does that mean?
Mr. HICKERSON. Trade discriminations through the United Nations.
Senator ELLENDER. How about racial discrimination!
Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir.
Chairman McKELLAR. We appropriate money for them.
Mr. HICKERSON. But we handle that for them, sir.

Senator McCARRAN. Again I come back to the same thing. The committee should know that these items that we are now considering

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