SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET

Senator FERGUSON. Over on page 169, do you have in mind there that you are going to have a supplemental budget?

You say:

It is particularly difficult in this critical period to determine very far in advance just what activities the Bureau will need to carry out and just what additional staff will be required for the job. In the meantime the personnel of the Bureau is being taxed to the limit to keep pace with the growing volume and intensity of the work. It appears now that the workload will soon expand beyond the present capacity of the Bureau to absorb it.

Mr. WILBER. Mr. Chairman, we have at the present time a supplemental estimate under consideration by the Bureau of the Budget in this Bureau.

Senator FERGUSON. In other words, before you get through testifying here you have in mind a supplemental; is that correct?

Mr. HICKERSON. We do not know whether they will approve it or not, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. But you have it in mind.

Chairman MCKELLAR. You are having it worked out.

Mr. WILBER. That is correct.

Senator FERGUSON. How large a budget is it? What are you asking for?

Mr. WILBER. Sixteen additional positions in this Bureau.

Senator MCCARRAN. Is that in the Office of Dependent Area Affairs? Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir; the whole Bureau of United Nations Affairs.

Senator FERGUSON. You are asking for 244 and you have already planned for 16 more.

Mr. HICKERSON. We have asked for 16 more, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. That is for the 1952 supplemental; is that correct?

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. Here in 1950 you had $116,760, with 21 persons, as I read your breakdown here on page 167, and again with 21 persons in 1951 you have $116,760. You are asking for the same amount this year.

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. I gathered that you did not have this staff at all. I must have misunderstood you.

Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir. Senator Ferguson went over to something not relating to that.

Chairman MCKELLAR. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question

here.

Senator MCCARRAN. Certainly.

QUESTION OF DUPLICATION WITH NEW YORK OFFICE

Chairman McKELLAR. I notice you asked for $1,347,965 for your office here, and I notice that the United Nations in New York is asking for approximately the same amount. Is not that just a duplication of what they have in New York?

Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir; it is not. Our task here is to work out the instructions of Senator Austin and his staff in New York. Senator

Austin and his staff in New York then endeavor to have adopted in the United Nations the programs which we think ought to be adopted.

Our task is to work out those programs and get out the instructions.

FINAL DECISION ON UNITED STATES POLICY

Senator MCCARRAN. Let me see if I caught the whole tenor of this particular thing correctly.

It is in your office, and by you, that the policy of this country is worked out that is submitted to the United Nations through Mr. Austin and his staff; is that correct?

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. Then you are the head of the policy-making group in the Department of State; is that not correct?

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct, sir.

That does not

As someone called it, I am the operating vice president for the United Nations. I operate in the Secretary's name. mean that I decide these things.

Senator MCCARRAN. You operate in whose name?

Mr. HICKERSON. The Secretary's name; as regards United Nations affairs.

Many of these things the President approves personally, but it is my responsibility to see that it is done. If it is something I can decide, I decide it.

Senator MCCARRAN. Is that without the President's approval?
Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. About what percentage of the decisions do you submit to the President?

Mr. HICKERSON. I would have to guess at that. I would say less than 10 percent.

Senator MCCARRAN. Then you decide about 90 percent of them yourself; is that correct?

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct.

If something gos wrong, if I make an unwise decision, I am responsible for that. If I make enough unwise decisions

Senator FERGUSON. You mean we are responsible for that, the people.

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes. But I have to take the responsibility for it. Senator MCCARRAN. We have to bear the brunt of it.

Mr. HICKERSON. That is right, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. So now we know where the policy is established.

Mr. HICKERSON. And if something goes wrong I am the guy who is to blame, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. In other words, if we want to know anything about United Nations policy we come to you? Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct, sir.

DISCUSSION OF SUPPLEMENTAL BILL

Chairman McKELLAR. I notice in some of these items you are asking for the same amount each year for 3 years. How does that happen? And now you say you have a supplemental bill. Ilave you had a supplemental bill every time?

Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir.

Chairman MCKELLAR. When did you last have a supplemental bill? Mr. WILBER. This is the only supplemental bill, Mr. Chairman, for 1952. It is presently before the Bureau at this time.

Senator FERGUSON. I hope you have not got two supplemental bills for 1952.

Mr. WILBER. No, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. That supplemental request is pending now before the Bureau of the Budget; is that correct?

Mr. WILBER. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.

Senator MCCARRAN. Why did it not come up here for consideration of this committee?

Mr. WILBER. This estimate was prepared, you see, a year ago, and it was before the development of these situations that called for the additional workload in this Bureau. Therefore, we could not anticipate them.

WORKLOAD REDUCTION RESPONSIBILITY

Senator FERGUSON. Whose job is it to try to cut down this workload?

What I want to know is this: How do other nations operate and pay their share of this enormous burden of the United Nations? Mr. HICKERSON. I will try to answer that.

Senator FERGUSON. Whose job is it to try to cut down?

Mr. HICKERSON. I regard it a part of my responsibility to try to cut down just as much as we can.

That is the reason why, Senator McKellar, you come to the various subdivisions of my organization where we ask for no increase.

As a taxpayer, I want to hold down the cost just as much as possible. In the United Nations, the United States is the leader. If it does anything it is because we show the leadership. We spend relatively more on our staffs, we have bigger staffs, because we do more of the work.

Now, if the United States does not exercise the leadership, sir, nothing is done. I assure you that in Korea nothing would have been done if the United States had not taken the leadership. I assure you that China would not have been declared an aggressor unless the United States took the initiative and worked patiently with our friends to line them up behind something that we knew was right.

We would have not gotten that resolution on the economic blockade.

ECONOMIC BLOCKADE RESPONSIBILITY

Senator FERGUSON. But you are not satisfied with that economic blockade.

Mr. HICKERSON. No, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Í read the Secretary's testimony, and he admits in the record that you have not accomplished that.

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct. We were not able to persuade people to go as far as we had gone. We took them as far as we could take them.

Senator FERGUSON. Have we gone the whole way on the economic blockade, or do we now sell them certain things?

Mr. HICKERSON. Do you mean the United States itself?

Senator FERGUSON. Yes, the United States.

Mr. HICKERSON. The United States in December imposed a complete embargo.

Senator FERGUSON. Is that an absolute blockade?

Mr. HICKERSON. On anything from the United States, exports and (or) imports.

TRANSFERRAL OF SHIPS TO FOREIGN REGISTRY

Senator FERGUSON. The thing I told you the other day I wanted to ask you about is: How many ships have been transferred to foreign registry so they can carry material and aid to the Communist Chinese? From whom would I get that information?

Mr. HICKERSON. So far as I know, I would say the answer to that is "No." We prohibited our ships from going to Chinese ports.

Senator FERGUSON. What about transferring them to Panamanian registry?

Mr. HICKERSON. There are a considerable number of Americanowned ships under Panamanian registry, but I am sure none were transferred to allow them to go into this trade.

Senator FERGUSON. Will you make a check on that, since we put the prohibition in, of all material and trade of any kind, how many American ships have been transferred to other registry, whether Panamanian or otherwise?

Will you also follow it up with information as to whether or not we have people in this country that are avoiding that blockade.

Mr. HUMELSINE. I will get the shipping policy staff to get a complete story of that, Senator.

(The information requested appears on p. 1500.)

EFFORTS TO ECONOMIZE

Chairman McKELLAR. Getting back to the subject of economy, awhile ago you said you were responsible for any economies. What other person in the organization here or in New York has charge of that matter? Do you have somebody report to you about it?

Mr. HICKERSON. As the head of the Bureau, it is my responsibility. Chairman McKELLAR. Do you have a report on it before you? Mr. HICKERSON. Mr. Meyer, my executive director, helps me in looking for chances to economize.

Chairman MCKELLAR. Is he present?

Mr. HICKERSON. He is right here, sir.

Chairman MCKELLAR. Mr. Meyer, what item did you select and what report have you made to your chief to bring about reductions or economies in your department?

Mr. MEYER. Senator, we are continually watching the work of the personnel and adjusting them if necessary between one office and another as the workloads increase or decrease. That is particularly true of the clerical and secretarial areas where we consider ourselves understaffed and have to deploy the girls and the young men so as to use them in the best manner possible.

Chairman McKELLAR. I notice here in 1950 you had $208,240 for your "Economic and social affairs," whatever they are.

In 1951 you had the same amount and you are asking for the same amount here.

Mr. HICKERSON. That is correct.

Chairman McKELLAR. And you have 35 employees under that cate

gory.

Can you explain why you show exactly the same amount of money each year? How much money do you have on hand for the present fiscal year ending June 30?

Mr. MEYER. In that office we have at present six secretarial vacancies, which we are trying to fill.

Chairman MCKELLAR. How much money do you have on hand in that office now?

Mr. MEYER. With six vacancies we are probably lapsing at the rate of $18,000 a year.

Chairman McKELLAR. How long have they been vacant?

LOSS OF TRAINED EMPLOYEES

Mr. MEYER. We were filled up the 1st of March. Since March we have had a great number of people leave us, either going to the new defense agencies, or leaving Washington.

Senator FERGUSON. Is that because they are getting promotions in other places?

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir; they are getting more money.

Senator FERGUSON. Are they getting a jump in grade without approval?

Mr. HICKERSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. MEYER. I lost 14 girls in 6 weeks, from March 1. We have new ones coming in gradually.

Senator FERGUSON. Let me ask along that line: Is there any way you can prevent transfers of that sort? What I have in mind is this: You have a girl in there, a secretary or stenographer, that is trained. in the work. She has been there probably for years.

Now she comes along and goes over into another agency known as a war agency and she starts all anew at a higher salary and higher grade, and all that. Then you have to come along and hire some new help and go into a training program. Is there not some way to stop this thing since it is all in the Government?

Mr. HICKERSON. If there is, we wish somebody would tell us what it is, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Just look at the loss. You have the loss not only of the higher salary in the other agency, but also your training loss. There is no reason why a defense agency should pay more than you do. It is all Government work.

I am assuming that the work is not any harder than your work. Why should we have the loss there and then have it on a new training program all along the line?

The taxpayer is out money. Why cannot you control that? Why should the other agencies raid your agency? You would not permit it out in private industry, would you?

Mr. HUMELSINE. No, sir. We would like to control that, Senator, but, unfortunately, we do not have any control over it. It is up to the Civil Service Commission.

I understand that they do have that problem under consideration at the present time.