people have been aroused, for instance; do you attempt to meet that, and to counteract the attitude of the people?

Mr. SARGEANT. We would try to meet that in this sense: We would try to make sure that the people had a full understanding of all the facts that went into the issue. I would not say that we would try to counteract it. We would try to make the full set of facts available and see whether the popular judgment continued to be the same.

QUESTION OF PROPAGANDIZING IN EFFORT TO SUSTAIN DISMISSAL OF GENERAL MAC ARTHUR

Senator MCCARRAN. Let us take one that has come upon us latelyand I am not going into this at great length, but I use it as an illustration-take the dismissal of General MacArthur. Is it true now that your Department is propagandizing this country to try to sustain the position of the dismissal of General MacArthur?

Mr. SARGEANT. No, sir. I should say that any information that we are making available attempts to give a balanced picture of what the facts are.

Senator MCCARRAN. Of course, you are not attempting to do any harm to the State Department in that respect, are you? You are trying to justify the dismissal of MacArthur, are you not?

Mr. SARGEANT. Well, Senator, I will put it this way: I am sure that we are attempting to explain as thoroughly as we can what the factors were in the administration's decision. But, equally, we are giving account of the testimony that has been given before the Senate committee.

Senator MCCARRAN. You are putting that out to the people?
Mr. SARGEANT. We are using it.

Senator McCARRAN. By what methods?

Mr. SARGEANT. I was thinking particularly, Senator, of our output on the international information side.

For example, we carried in live broadcasts General MacArthur's speech before the United States Senate. We carried it simultaneously. We carried it in its entirety. That is an illustration of the way in which we tried to see that the facts on both sides are presented.

Senator MCCARRAN. I have here in my hand a pamphlet entitled "Department of State Bulletin." On page 846-I do not know whether that is the proper page number or not-under the heading of "ChineseAmerican friendship" by Dean Rusk, Assistant Secretary for Far Eastern Affairs, a speech is reprinted. Is this the same speech Dean Rusk made, which he afterward apparently retracted and modified? Mr. RUSSELL. What is the date of that, Senator?

Senator MCCARRAN. May 28.

Mr. RUSSELL. Yes, sir; that would be that speech.

Senator MCCARRAN. What did you do about his modification, or the retraction, or whatever you want to call it?

Mr. RUSSELL. That bulletin is very largely a compilation of official statements by responsible officers of the Department, by the President, and others who speak officially for the Government. The only purpose of that is to print what was said in a particular statement.

It would also include, in all probability, any statement made by the Secretary at a press conference that bore upon the statements of Dean Rusk there.

Mr. WILBER. Mr. Chairman, I doubt that Secretary Rusk would agree that he had retracted that statement in any way.

Senator MCCARRAN. All right. I will take the responsibility for that.

COST OF PUBLICATIONS

Now, will you give the committee an over-all statement as to the cost of these publications?

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir; I will be glad to supply that for the record. (The statement referred to follows:)

Total appropriation for fiscal year 1951 publications

1. Printing and publications for distribution to the general public:1

2. Personal services (estimated personnel in the following offices engaged in production of publications for distribution to the general public): 1

(a) Division of Publications.
(b) Division of Historical Research:
Foreign relations volumes.
German war documents.
Policy publications.

(c) Bureau of United Nations Affairs.
(d) Legal adviser (treaty affairs).

Subtotal.

Less 5 percent lapse....

Posi- Annual
tions

rate

$47,025

257, 941 20, 000

324, 966

Total estimated personal service cost.

Total estimated cost of publications..

2 735, 037

1 The balance of personnel in the Division of Publications (33) and the appropriation for printing are used for other purposes, such as compilation and printing of legislation, personnel handbooks, telephone directory, security documents, UNESCO, etc. Personnel in other areas of the Department who devote less than full time to preparation of material for publication have been excluded.

* Represents only direct charges against "Salaries and expenses" appropriation.

Chairman MCKELLAR. Do you know what it costs to send out that statement of foreign policy?

Mr. SARGEANT. The printing cost, Senator McKellar, of that statement, the printing cost for the 200,000 copies was $20,179, which works out, considering the total cost, which would include the cost of editing, and so forth, to something in the neighborhood of 12 cents per copy.

Chairman MCKELLAR. Now, we had a witness yesterday-Mr. Hickerson, I believe who said that he had charge of our foreign policy, and that he prepared all papers concerning it, and that they were sent by him to Senator Austin, and that Senator Austin accepted those, and that that became our foreign policy. If the costs of his department were about the same as yours, would not that be duplication? The papers show that. Anyway, do you suppose many people read this booklet?

Mr. SARGEANT. Senator McKellar, on the first point that you made, Assistant Secretary Hickerson and Senator Austin deal with the United Nations.

Chairman MCKELLAR. I understand that. That is fine information, but I am afraid it is duplication.

Mr. SARGEANT. No, sir. The material that you have there is simply a publication which is put out by our Office of Public Affairs.

TOTAL COST OF DISSEMINATING STATEMENT ON FOREIGN POLICY

It is designed to acquaint the American people with the facts that underlie the foreign-policy decisions, including those which have gone into the presentation before the United Nations.

Chairman MCKELLAR. You go a little further than Mr. Hickerson, is that right?

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir.

Chairman McKELLAR. But the purpose is the same?

Senator MCCARRAN. The copy that I have in my hand is marked in pencil on the outside "200,000" which I take it would mean the 200,000 copies that were circulated, and after that a comma, and "Cost, $20,179."

Mr. SARGEANT. That is correct, sir.

Senator MCCARRAN. How many issues of those go out a year?

Mr. SARGEANT. This is the first time that such a pamphlet has been prepared, Mr. Chairman. In fact, this pamphlet was written in response to a request made by the Committee on Appropriations in the House. They have asked us to try and develop some material which will be understandable to people such as high-school students, labor groups, and others, which would be popularly written, so that there will at least be some opportunity for a great deal of recirculation. That, in fact, has happened with this pamphlet because it was printed in its entirety that is, reprinted in its entirety by the Machinist's Monthly Journal that I refer to, and substantial parts of it were carried in newspapers in this country, including the St. Louis PostDispatch, the Christian Science Monitor, and so forth.

Our intention, Mr. Chairman, is not to develop great quantities of publications by which we hope to reach millions of people. We hope that with a limited quantity of publications we will reach the people who are the middlemen, who will take these, rework them or reprint them, and reach the particular groups that are their own constituents.

Senator MCCARRAN. Are any of these people whom you have employed or intend to employ engaged in an effort to influence Congress into a larger information program?

Mr. SARGEANT. No, sir; there are none.

Senator MCCARRAN. You are quite certain of that?
Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir.

UNESCO RELATIONS STAFF

Senator MCCARRAN. I notice that you have in your justification here an item under "UNESCO relations staff," conduct of diplomatic relations with international organizations. How much goes into that out of your department? How much money?

Mr. SARGEANT. For UNESCO relations staff, Mr. Chairman, we are asking for the same number of positions that we have this year, as we pointed out, 42 positions. The amount of money that we are requesting for the fiscal year 1952 is the same as for the present year. namely, $209,945.

Senator MCCARRAN. Is not that largely under Mr. Hickerson?

Mr. SARGEANT. This particular operation is not under Mr. Hickerson, because the UNESCO relations staff, although engaged in the conduct of relations with the international agency, UNESCO, has a second function, which is authorized in the act, by which we participate in UNESCO. That is Public Law 565 of the Seventy-ninth Congress.

That act authorized the Department to supply a secretariat to the United States National Commission for UNESCO which is made up of 100 leaders in this country in the fields of education, science, and culture. That staff performs many functions and services as a secretariat. In addition to that, it does have functions of relationships with the international agency; but because our office deals so much with the American public, it was thought in the beginning that it more appropriately belonged with us.

Senator MCCARRAN. Now, do you call yourself a policy-making department?

Mr. SARGEANT. No. The Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs is not a policy-making official. It is his duty to bring to the attention of policy-making officials such things as public-opinion factors.

Senator MCCARRAN. Then why do you put out publications if you are not putting them out for the purpose of establishing policies? Chairman MCKELLAR. That is foreign policy, to the public.

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir-but I would like to make this distinction clear: Our Foreign Policy is the best presentation we know how to make of the foreign policy that has been laid down. It is not a policy that the Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs has himself evolved. Senator MCCARRAN. I am sorry. I do not follow that.

Mr. SARGEANT. Let me make this clear, now. In a sense, we are the arm of the Department of State that explains to the public what the policies are. But we are not any more a policy-making body than would be the case if you were running a business, Senator McCarran, and you had a public relations director and your public relations director would say that the policy of the firm is so and so. It would be the general manager or the board of directors that would have laid down that policy.

Senator MCCARRAN. Let me put it to you in another way, in a rather homely way. If the policy as such is made by Mr. Hickerson's department, is it your duty to sell that to the public?

Mr. SARGEANT. No; I would not put it that way. I think it is our duty to see that the public has the facts that were available to Mr. Hickerson when that decision was made. They may or not agree when they have the facts that the decision was corerctly made. If they don't, that is another reason for our provision of a staff to obtain their views.

Senator MCCARRAN. Pardon me?

Mr. SARGEANT. I was going to say that in the event they do not agree, once they have the facts, it is through the Office of Public Affairs, in many instances, that we get the reaction. We get the reactions from organizations and from individuals. They say, "We have read your statement on such and such an issue in that publication, and we want to say that we don't agree with you, and here are our reasons." In that event they may participate in one of the meetings that we have with representatives of organizations, and Mr. Hicker

son would be invited to meet with that group and to give them any further information or try to answer their quesions.

Senator MCCARRAN. You would not put out anything that would run counter to Mr. Hickerson's policies, would you?

Mr. SARGEANT. Well, I do not know how to answer that, Mr. Chairman. I think that in many instances, we would, in the sense that if there were a controversial issue you would find not only the policy that has been adopted by the Department has been reflected, but you would find ample evidence and testimony given before congressional committees, or public statements by other people, which actually oppose that particular policy.

Mr. WILBER. Mr. Sargeant, is it not true that you do not evaluate policy, you merely publicize the circumstances and that the actual policy is established by Mr. Hickerson?

Mr. SARGEANT. Or other policy makers in the Department. That is correct.

QUESTION OF ENORMOUS COST OF PUBLICATIONS

Senator MCCARRAN. What I am getting at is this. There is this enormous bill for publications-here is one publication that cost $20,000 alone. I do not know how many more you have; there are quite a number, as indicated by the statement that you are going to offer for the record here. It must run into an enormous amount of money. Now, I am trying to find out what that does, and what the object and purpose is. That is the reason for my questioning.

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir; I understand. Let me make it clear, though, that Mr. Wilber's statement, I think, is an accurate one, and I do not want to continue to confuse the committee, Mr. Chairman, by having them believe that the Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs makes foreign policy or evaluates foreign policy. It is our job-and this I conceive to be the purpose of our operation-to see that foreign policy decisions which have been taken are presented, that they are presented in such context as will make people understand what the facts were, both for and against that policy.

Senator MCCARRAN. Do you not in that try to make the people believe in that form of foreign policy?

Senator FEGRUSON. You try to make them swallow that?
Mr. SARGEANT. Senator, I would not put it that way.

Senator FERGUSON. I know you do not like the word "swallow" but we all know what it means.

Mr. SARGEANT. Let me put it this way: We have the obligation, in performing the presentation of these foreign policy matters, to present as clearly as we can the position that has been taken by the Department of State and by the administration. We do not conceive that it is our duty to falsify or to omit essential facts. We feel that it is our duty to present the background of the facts surrounding that situation so that the American public will have those in its thinking.

EXAMPLE OF CHANGE IN POLICY UNDER PRESSURE OF PUBLIC OPINION

Senator FERGUSON. Can you give us an example of where public opinion has changed our policy?

Mr. SARGEANT. I am sure that there are such examples.