Senator MCCARRAN. They seem to be practically the same during the past 5 years. As a Mr. KILGUSS. Yes; they don't seem to vary a whole lot. matter of fact, if anything, there seems to be a slight decline there, according to these figures. Senator MCCARRAN. There are 500 cases. Mr. KILGUSS. Of course, in the grand jury you have many more pleadings coming through now. They have not had to go to the grand jury with them in many instances, because of the new methods of handling. Senator MCCARRAN. Do these cases growing out of congressional inquiries, contempt cases, and so forth, fall into this? Mr. KILGUSS. Yes, sir; they do. They would fall into, I imagine, proceedings before the grand jury. Those cases have been presented before the grand juries. Senator MCCARRAN. Are they all being presented to the grand jury? Mr. KILGUSS. I believe so, sir. Senator MCCARRAN. Have you taken occasion to observe what the result has been, generally speaking? Mr. KILGUSS. Well, I have not, not too closely. I have noticed recently where several of them have been dismissed. Senator MCCARRAN. By the grand jury? Mr. KILGUSS. By the grand jury; yes, sir. Senator MCCARRAN. I would expect it, from some of the records I have seen. Mr. KILGUSs. Yes. APPROPRIATION FOR UNITED STATES MARSHALS Senator MCCARRAN. For your United States marshals, you are requesting $6,405,850, an increase of $58,550 over your current year appropriation. What do you propose to do with this additional money if it is granted to you? Mr. KILGUSS. There again, Senator, we are proposing a decrease in the number of positions. We will have to let go 19 deputy marshals, grade GS-5, but we do propose two new positions in the over-all set-up. Chairman McKELLAR. That is a decrease of how many deputy marshals? Mr. KILGUSs. Nineteen. Senator MCCARRAN. How can you make that decrease? Mr. KILGUSS. We are going to have to, because we don't have the funds to pay them. It will absolutely be necessary for us to do that. We must create two new jobs in Guam, a marshal and a deputy. That is a new district, Senator. But we will have to drop 19 positions in order to come within the money that is going to be available. We do not know at this moment just where they are going to come from. It means a study of our over-all situation, of places where work is declining. There will be some adjustments in other places where work is increasing. But in the over-all, we are going to have to eliminate 19 positions. FEWER AGENTS THAN IN 1930 I might point out there, too, that we presently have fewer marshals than we had in 1930. This is probably one of the very few governmental agencies that can say that. We have, as you will note in our justification, effected considerable savings in the average cost on the number of prisoners transported. I would like to point out to you there that within the last year or so we have adopted a new idea in the transportation of prisoners. Whereas previously every marshal having prisoners to transport would just take them on when he was ready, to the institution to which they were designated, we now have a system whereby a marshal from a given area going in a given direction will contact marshals along the way to see if he may not have some prisoners going in that same direction. Where he previously handled one prisoner, he may be handling four or five or more on a trip. Senator MCCARRAN. Do you not have to have guards? Mr. KILGUSS. Yes; we do have to have guards, but not necessarily proportionate in number. In other words, where you might need one guard for two prisoners along with the deputy, the same two may be able to handle three or four prisoners. It cuts down the per diem as well as the mileage allowed, and it has also at the same time not impeded the transportation of these prisoners. We have had an exceptionally good experience. We estimate that it saved us approximately $90,000 in the last 2 years in our travel. WORKLOAD IN SERVICE OF PROCESS Senator MCCARRAN. I notice under "Service of process," the increase is noted here from 358,958 in 1948 to 402,248 in 1949, 427,553 in 1950, and an estimated figure for 1952 of 454,400. Mr. KILGUSS. Yes, sir; that has been increasing steadily. Our workload here has been exceptionally heavy. We have been able to do a lot of that by marshals becoming more experienced, better qualified, of course. We have not had as much turn-over among them as we previously had. We do feel that we have an exceptionally fine group of men. We have done a lot toward training them to better utilize their time. We have one training officer who visits these various marshal offices and points out to them ways and means of saving their time, handling their prisoners, and better utilizing the time that is available to them. It has reflected itself in this way. Senator MCCARRAN. Now, you say you are going to have to cut 17. Mr. KILGUSS. Yes, sir; 19 all told, but a net of 17. Senator MCCARRAN. A net of 17? Mr. KILGUSS. Yes. We have two new positions. Senator MCCARRAN. Now, when you submitted this to the Budget, you did not figure it that way; did you? Mr. KILGUSS. We did ask for some additional. Mr. Butts tells me it was 25. But when they got through with our figures, this is what was allowed, and that is all we can have. We originally proposed some additional help in several other places, notably the District of Columbia, here, which likewise, in the marshal's office, has just a terrific volume of business. They are the busiest office, and I believe we had figures for 1 month that showed they served as many processes as all the rest of the marshals in that 1 month. I believe that 1 month was January of this year. Here in the District of Columbia, they served as much process as all the other United States marshals in the country. It was a terrific burden for them. It meant overtime, Saturdays, and evenings as well. DEPUTY MARSHALS IN DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA Senator MCCARRAN. How any deputies have they here? Mr. KILGUSS. Approximately 100. Senator MCCARRAN. That is a pretty good number of deputies. Mr. KILGUSS. It is a large number. But if you figure that half of the process of the country was served here, it is still an awful lot of work for them. Senator MCCARRAN. But it is a pretty congested district. Mr. KILGUSS. Yes; it is. Senator MCCARRAN. And there are lots of transportation facilities. Mr. KILGUSS. Facilities for transportation are good, but, of course, they find the same problems that they do anywhere else. The process has to be served, and there is the matter of finding people, and so forth. The hours when they are out serving oftentimes necessitate extra trips, and so forth. The burden is great. Senator MCCARRAN. I do not like your idea of cutting in this particular appropriation, because I think you are going to impair a very valuable service. Mr. KILGUSS. We realize the difficulties that it is going to impose upon us, but, of course, we are limited in our request to what we get through the Budget, and, of course, we want to make an honest effort and will make an honest effort to do the very best we can. As I say, our marshals and deputies have been very conscientious and have never shirked their duties at all. They have made every effort to do everything they possibly could to keep work up to date. Senator MCCARRAN. What additional amount would it cost to keep that 17 on? Mr. KILGUSS. Well, a GS-5 gets approximately $3,300, I believe. It is somewhere in that neighborhood. I have the actual figure here. A GS-5, basic, gets $3,100. Senator MCCARRAN. Are they all on that? Mr. KIGUSS. The average field deputy is GS-5; yes, sir. They get $3,100 basic. So if we were to keep 17 on, it would be 17 times that, or approximately $53,000, I would say. Senator MCCARRAN. I notice you want to purchase one van at a cost of $2,500 and one bus at a cost of $15,000. Last year we gave you authority to purchase a van and bus for replacement. Now, why does another van and bus have to be replaced? Mr. KILGUSS. We have a bus here in the District of Columbia that is in very bad condition. It is not safe. Senator MCCARRAN. What is that used for? Mr. KILGUSS. It is to transport prisoners from the jail to the courts. And it is in use practically every day. It is a very well-utilized vehicle. And it is just in deplorable shape, and it is absolutely necessary that it be replaced. We don't think it is even safe to operate, but we have had to use it. As a matter of fact, it has broken down many times. Senator MCCARRAN. How many does that hold? Mr. KILGUSS. I think it holds 40 or 45. Chairman MCKELLAR. It must be a pretty good-sized bus to cost $15,000. Mr. KILGUSS. It will hold over 40 people. And then we need one van in New York City, that also has reached the point where it is no longer serviceable. We must have a van there. FEES AND EXPENSES OF WITNESSES Senator MCCARRAN. The next appropriation for consideration is "Fees and expenses of witnesses," for which you are requesting $1,500,000, which is an increase of $500,000 over your current year appropriation. Why do you need such a large increase? How are you getting along with the $1,000,000 you have for this year? What is the rate of obligation for the current year? Mr. KILGUSS. This, of course, is a wholly uncontrollable item, and it is estimated that there will be that increase. Actually, for this year our experience has been a little bit startling to us. We anticipated that we would be running much further behind right at this moment than we are, but we have not been. However, the opinion is that there will be that added expense next year, with the increase of general legal activities, the additional crime, and so forth. I might point out in this regard, that we have constantly been after our United States attorneys as well as our other people to keep their witnesses at a minimum. In other words, we do not want them having four witnesses if two will do. On the other hand, we do not want to deny them witnesses if they feel they are necessary to a particular trial. Apparently our efforts to keep them down have effected some savings, and we have kept a rather close watch over them. Senator MCCARRAN. This is an item that you just have to guess at. Mr. KILGUSS. It is pretty much a guess, Senator, and we would go along with you on whatever your thoughts were on that. Of course, if we ran into the experience where we were running over, we would have to come back to you for a deficiency. Chairman McKELLAR. Are you over this year? Mr. KILGUSS. No; we are not, Senator. We are keeping within our appropriation up to the present. It looks as though we probably should continue to do so; although our heaviest withdrawal of funds is apt to come in the next few months. But the way it looks now, we probably will be able to live within the appropriation for this year. Senator MCCARRAN. Does this not all lie on the criminal side? Mr. KILGUSs. Mostly. Mr. BUTTS. If the Government has an interest in the civil case it must furnish and pay its witnesses. Mr. KILGUSS. Not wholly, but it is principally criminal. Senator MCCARRAN. Your civil cases carry themselves; do they not? Mr. KILGUSS. Not the Government civil. The private civil does. That, of course, is the smaller percentage of the whole. But if you saw fit to adjust that, we might have to come back to you. Senator MCCARRAN. We will recess at this point until 10 o'clock tomorrow. Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. KILGUSS. Thank you, Senator. (Whereupon, at 4: 05 p. m., Monday, March 19, 1951, the committee recessed to reconvene Tuesday, March 20, 1951, at 10 a. m.) |