The same is true of bricklayers. That seems to be growing in popularity as a trade, an outlet for Negro employment-not mixed on bricklaying operations but when the bricklayers get through, perhaps a gang of carpenters come along and place the joists, and when they get through, a Negro crew of bricklayers will come back and continue the work.

That has proven to be quite satisfactory.

I have not been in intimate touch with other businesses so far as their employment problems are concerned. I can speak of that only in a very general way.

Senator ELLENDER. But the same thing occurs in those others as far as you know, and as far as you have heard, as would

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

Senator ELLENDER. As is the case in the business you have just described?

Mr. LONG. That is right.

Senator ELLENDER. And it is your considered judgment, I take it, that the passage of this law would disrupt that?

Mr. LONG. Quite so. I can conceive of it quite easily doing that. Another point: Even though this law may not have the intent to directly regulate a whole lot of employment, I can envision as the years go by, modifications and the strengthening of certain features of it that would require in our State health department, which is subsidized partly with Federal funds, in our welfare work, and in our highway work, in our soil-conservation work, the introduction of very serious social problems that would tear down and, in large measure, nullify some of the present, happy relationships that have been built up.

As we now operate, if we were required, for instance, to have white and nonwhite working along, side by side, in a supervisory capacity in the State health department, State welfare department, State highway department, or if we were to have Negro soil conservation supervisors working with white conservation supervisors and the same thing in forestry; I can envision serious difficulties coming out of that if this legislation passes and, over a period of years, gradually gains momentum and is added to.

Senator ELLENDER. Mr. Long, don't you feel that this cordial relationship, and more of it, is more likely to come about under the system that is now in force in the South, as now practiced, than you could accomplish under this law?

Mr. LONG. Absolutely, sir.

Senator ELLENDER. Are you familiar with the administration of the so-called FEPC, under the Executive order of the President?

Mr. LONG. Generally.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, you are familiar with the cases in Virginia, where the Executive order was so administered as to tear down customs and barriers that had been prevalent in Virginia for quite some time, and what did that cause?

Mr. LONG. That caused bitter resentment and strong resistance and friction and tearing down what we have steadily and constructively built up.

Senator ELLENDER. That is all the questions I have.
Senator DONNELL. Anything further, Mr. Long?
Mr. LONG. I have nothing further.

Senator DONNELL. We are very grateful to you for giving us the benefit of your views, Mr. Long.

The committee will be in recess until 2:30 this afternoon, to meet again at this same location.

(Thereupon, at 1 p. m., a recess was taken until 2: 30 p. m. of the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

Senator DONNELL. The committee will be in order.

Mr. Crozier, will you take the stand.

STATEMENT OF HARRY BENGE CROZIER, CHAIRMAN-EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR, TEXAS EMPLOYMENT COMMISSION

Senator DONNELL. Will you please state you name?
Mr. CROZIER. Harry B. Črozier.

Senator DONNELL. Where is your home, Mr. Crozier?
Mr. CROZIER. Austin, Tex.

Senator DONNELL. What is your business?

Mr. CROZIER. I am chairman-executive director of the Texas Employment Commission.

Senator DONNELL. Is that a State governmental commission?
Mr. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

Senator DONNELL. Are you appointed by the commission or by the Governor?

Mr. CROZIER. By the Governor.

Senator DONNELL. Who appointed you.

Mr. CROZIER. I am here at Governor Jester's direction. I was appointed by Governor Stevenson.

Senator DONNELL. Where were you born, Mr. Crozier?

Mr. CROZIER. In the cattle country, west Texas, around San Angelo.
Senator DONNELL. Have you lived in Texas all your life?

Mr. CROZIER. With the exception of 4 years in New York City.
Senator DONNELL. Where did you take your schooling?

Mr. CROZIER. In Texas at Southwestern University.

Senator DONNELL. What degree did you take?

Mr. CROZIER. None.

Senator DONNELL. What did you specialize in in your collegiate work?

Mr. CROZIER. Government and history and economics.

Senator DONNELL. When did you finish your collegiate work?

Mr. CROZIER. In 1912.

Senator DONNELL. What did you do then?

Mr. CROZIER. I became a cub reporter.

Senator DONNELL. On what paper were you a cub reporter?

Mr. CROZIER. On the San Antonio Express.

Senator DONNELL. How long did you hold that position?

Mr. CROZIER. About a year, and I then went to the Galveston and

the Dallas News.

Senator DONNELL. How long did you hold that position?

Mr. CROZIER. Intermittently for about 25 years.

Senator DONNELL. That brings you up to what year?

Mr. CROZIER. About 1937. In 1931 I went to New York as the Director of Public Relations for the American Petroleum Institute. I returned to Dallas and the Dallas News for a year and a half as a political correspondent, and then I went into public relations and counseling, and was appointed to this job in 1942.

Senator DONNELL. Have you traveled through practically all parts

of Texas?

Mr. CROZIER. Yes, sir; I suspect that I am one of the few Texans who have been in 254 counties, and I am not sure of that, but as a staff correspondent of the News I got into almost every county in the State.

Senator DONNELL. Will you proceed with your testimony?

Mr. CROZIER. Yes, sir. May I explain that Governor Jester was out in Utah and his correspondence was by telegram with Senator Ellender. I had no time until yesterday evening to dictate this state

ment.

Senator ELLENDER. What I did was to invite Governor Jester, as well as other citizens from the South, to come to Washington and give their testimony for or against the bill, not so much in opposition, but to come here and testify. I specifically stated that in the telegram. I will be glad to furnish a copy of that for the record and indicate that the telegram was directed to them with a view of asking them to testify either "for" or "against" the bill.

Mr. CROZIER. As I recall your language in the telegram, you did not press the invitation. You simply asked if we wanted to be present. Senator ELLENDER. Either "for" or "against" the bill.

Senator DONNELL. If the Senator desires to incorporate the specific language, we can do that.

Senator ELLENDER. I do not think that it is necessary. Mr. Chairman, in connection with this invitation, quite a few of the Governors responded that they regretted, because of the fact that they had made arrangements to attend a Governors' conference in Salt Lake City, Utah, that they would be unable to be present:

Unfortunately, there was no way that they could change the date, and I so notified them.

Senator DONNELL. Go right ahead and present your statement, Mr. Crozier.

Mr. CROZIER. My presentation before your committee is at the request of Gov. Beauford Jester, and in my own behalf as chairmanexecutive director of the Texas Employment Commission. That commission administers the employment service and the unemployment compensation joint program in Texas.

We, in Texas, are concerned, that our minority groups shall have greater opportunity to achieve a fuller measure of living. In the way that a society composed of men of good will go about these things, we are laying the ground work for wider opportunities for these people. Our task in Texas is to give the Negro a fairer chance in industry, and to do away with prejudices against Texans of Mexican

descent.

The program, as we view is, is one that calls for education, more education, and again education, and one that can be scuttled beyond redemption, and probably would be, by any attempt at legislative or administrative coercion.

Senator DONNELL. In your work of the Texas Employment Commission, are you thrown into contact with employer and employees as well?

Mr. CROZIER. Yes, sir. During the first 2 years of my tenure I was the employer representative.

Senator DONNELL. Then you were appointed chairman and public member?

Mr. CROZIER. And public member.

Senator DONNELL. What is the Texas Employment Commission? What are its functions?

Mr. CROZIER. Until recently, it was called the Texas Unemployment Compensation Commission, but with the return of the employment service, we asked the legislature to give us a wieldier and more affirmative approach, and it was changed to the Texas Employment Commission.

Senator DONNELL. With not so much emphasis on the "unemployment?"

Mr. CROZIER. Yes, sir. We try to get away from that. We believe it is a fatal defect in any legislation that would impose straitjacket standards of employment practices; that therein lies an expressed assumption that standards of tolerance, good will, and fair play, can be raised by a legislative device.

In our effort to solve problems, we are all aware that too frequently we have enacted laws that were ahead of society's customs and convictions, with the result that there was no public acceptance and accordingly nothing but bitter fruits and increased conviction together with increased lowering of public respect for law in general.

A Federal enactment along these lines would suffer severely indeed from this basic defect. Despite the growth of national regulations in many fields, there still remains in this country an amazing amount of regional diversity in attitudes and outlook. Those of us in one area may disagree with points of view characteristic of another; we may dislike them heartily. But an effort such as the FEPC, which ignores the fact of diverse historical background in the different regions of this country, will emphasize the disruptive and divisive elements latent in our national unity without advancing the interests of those groups which it pretends to aid.

The answer for such problems as the FEPC proposes to attack is the changing of community standards by voluntary means, principally by education. It requires no special study of history to know that we have, over the years, been making substantial progress in our struggle against intolerance, and against racial, religious, and other types of discrimination. There is no reason to suppose that we have lost our capacity to achieve, without statutory or executive sanctions, further improvements in the art of living, one with another, that will make for a more decent life for all of us, whatever our faith or color or origin.

Surely the proponents of such a measure as the FEPC are aware that there are other agencies than the Government which can work more effectively for the elimination of whatever weaknesses there may be in our present employment practices. They know of the schools, the churches, and the homes of the country, in addition to the countless other nongovernmental organizations which we use in our com

munity life. To me the inference is plain that they work for a statutory enactment in order to have a leverage for agitation and complaint, to have a Government-supported sounding board for whatever wrongs, real or fancied, that they wish at the moment to publicize.

We are in the early stages of what we believe will be astounding industrial development in Texas. We could not expect it to thrive in an atmosphere of strife and prejudice and onerous restrictions. For our own good, and in our own economic interest we want to make the most efficient use of every bit of manpower and brain power that is available. We know that equality of economic opportunity is just and we are convinced that we can prosper more if we have it.

Recent investigation has disclosed to me that a considerable number of our major industrial enterprises have inaugurated programs measureably broadening job opportunities for Negroes and opening to them skilled trades heretofore reserved for white employees. It is elementary to me that if we are to have stability and advancement, it must be evolved through practices like this. I have reviewed at the same time the files of correspondence exchanged during the war period between the Fair Employment Practice Committee and the War Manpower Commission in Texas. In retrospect the only impression you can derive from a scanning of those files is one of a few busy zealots busying themselves with picayunish fault finding that had only the effect of impeding the war effort and annoying the War Manpower Commission in its efforts to carry out grave responsibilities. ~ It has the appearance of a sort of scold book in a season when scolding was not a desired practice.

No more than we needed it then do we need nor want now a governmental agency which can send unsympathetic and uninformed agents into our cities and counties to aggravate what we consciously recognize as a bad situation, and to foment dissatisfaction and strife.

Texas begs of the Congress not to add more nails to the cross the Negro bears. If such legislation is imposed and the employers of the country take recourse in subtleties, then the minorities in this country are in for sufferings of soul more acutely than they ever have known. We want to be permitted in our own stumbling, democratic way to make adjustments and correct the abuses that we deplore. Senator DONNELL. Mr. Crozier, have you read S. 984?

Mr. CROZIER. I have.

Senator DONNELL. Are you familiar with the purposes and the philosophy of the bill?

Mr. CROZIER. That is right.

Senator DONNELL. Do you know that it relates to discrimination in employment because of race, religion, color, national origin, or ancestry?

Mr. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

Senator DONNELL. In your testimony, do you have in mind that the bill provides in substance that it shall be unlawful as an employment practice for an employer to refuse to hire, discharge, or to otherwise discriminate against any individual with respect to his terms, conditions, or privileges of employment because of such individual's race, religion, color, national origin, or ancestry?