chinery for making officers and creating officers and giving them the experience, I am wondering where we are going to get this supply in an emergency hereafter, if we eliminate them from the merchant marine. We did take them from the merchant marine in the last war and 1 believe that is the proper place for them to come from; but I am afraid this naval officer proposition will be a detriment in that it will decrease instead of increase your officers in your merchant marine.

Mr. HART. In what section is that provided for, Captain, please? Is that section 802 (b) that you are addressing yourself to now, page 48?

Mr. DELANEY. No; page 34.

The CHAIRMAN. Which draft have you, Captain?

Mr. DELANEY. Rewrite no. 2.

The CHAIRMAN. Well look at the top of the page and tell us what date.

Mr. DELANEY. It is committee print no. 2, April 30, 1935.

The CHAIRMAN. And what page is it?

Mr. DELANEY. Page 34, at the top of the page, for "Naval Officers", and the bottom of page 33 is cadets.

The CHAIRMAN. Under section 512 (a) and (b).

Mr. DELANEY. Right.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed, Captain.

Mr. DELANEY. I won't consume any more time on that question, Mr. Chairman, but I would like to have an opportunity before the week is out to present further briefs on the matter, to be included in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. Your brief will be filed and included in the record. (The brief above referred to appears at the conclusion of this statement.)

Mr. SIROVICH. Captain Delaney, you said you were opposed to having young men go in and get a short cut, through the instrumentality and agency that we have provided, and to become cadets, because it would close the door of opportunity to the other men who work in the various departments of the merchant marine. In listening to the testimony of two of our distinguished superintendents of marine academies, of which there are only four in the whole United States so far, in New York, Pennsylvania, California, and I think Massachusetts

The CHAIRMAN. And I think Connecticut, too.

Mr. SIROVICH. No; the gentleman from New York said yesterday there was none in Connecticut.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, I said Connecticut and he corrected me on it. Mr. SIROVICH. And in listening to the testimony of the gentleman who came from my home State-and I was very deeply impressed with his testimony-he brought out the fact that the State of New York contributes $90,000 a year and has had an organization known as the "New York Naval School" for almost 80 years, which receives a subsidy from our Government of about $20,000 to $25,000, and they have room for about 95 to 110 men and take about 15 or 20 from foreign states; so that, all told, there are about 140. These boys enter the academy between the ages of 17 and 20; they must be graduates of a high school, and there they are taught everything that appertains to the running of the merchant marine and they get a sort of a semi

eitural background which will enable us to develop men who are going to run the merchant marine -not completely; because it is only hated to about 25 percent of the ultimate personnel of the entire merchant marine. But they are of the finest type and the backbone and flower of our American youth, that we ought to encourage. It does not always pay to send men without any educational training and let them learn from the bottom up. And this method also provides for the training and education of these men on the merchant maine, which will later be an auxiliary naval reserve, so that we can bad up the cultural background of the men who want to go in the Navy or the merchant marine.

So I cannot see, since they will only take up to 25 percent of the uitimate personnel of all of the merchant marine, why there should be any objection to them. Are you objecting to them because of their character?

Mr DELANEY. Not at all.

Mr SIROVICH. Because of their educational qualifications?

Mr DELANEY. Not at all.

Mr SIROVICH. Or would you expect them to go in on the same level with everybody else and go up?

Mr. DELANEY. That is the idea, Doctor. As I see it, Doctor--and I believe you can see it that way yourself. I do not suppose there 1s a man on your committee here who has not got his vision on the chair that Mr. Bland is in, anxious to be the chairman of this committee, regardless of the extra work that might go with it.

Mr. SIROVICH. But that does not come from vision; that only comes through automatic promotion.

Mr. DELANEY. Yes; but your hope is for that: your desire is for that And to go still further, your desires is to be Speaker of the House.

Mr SIROVICH. Nobody closes the door to any man who is in the merchant marine.

Mr. DELANEY. No; but it does give a short cut over the other fellow

Mr. SIROVICH. And it does not come from work with reference to our leader; President Roosevelt got a short cut up to the Presidency of the United States, and he did not have to go through what everybody else does.

Mr. DELANEY. But you are talking about giving a man an education in theory.

Mr. SIROVICH. We are giving him an education in practice, too; they get both there.

Mr. DELANEY. They cannot get both.

Mr. SIROVICH. At least they do, from what he said; they give them practical training on the ocean.

Mr. O'LEARY, Yes; then they give them a year's training on shipboard, and then they qualify as junior officers.

Mr. DELANEY. Yes.

Mr SIROVICH. And they are not running ahead of everybody else. Mr. DELANEY. Yes; but we believe it is best to get boys to go into our merchant marine and, as stated to this committee before, we can get the young boy, the high-school boy and the college boy, to go right into the merchant marine as a sailor, if we have the incentive there.

Surely, in God's name, you cannot say our maritime industry is such a despicable industry that we cannot build it up and get the best boys of our country into it. It is healthful; it is fascinating.

Mr. SIROVICH. Every civilized nation of the world has these schools, and why should we be an exception? Name a nation of the world that has not got a training school for men as we have. This bill goes a little further; it tries to develop in other parts of the country these schools in order to give the boys of the Nation a chance to develop. There is nothing wrong in getting a fine, cultural background behind our officers.

Mr. DELANEY. I believe you can get a fine, cultural background behind our officers by creating an incentive in the position itself. Give the men the wages and working conditions and you will get the cultural background; you will get the high-school boy and the college boy to go right in at the bottom of the line and work their way up. Our American boy is not afraid of work.

The CHAIRMAN. I would make it so they could go further, so that the man, in whatever position he might be on the ship, might be considered eventually, if he demonstrates his ability and intelligence, as an applicant for such a position; just the same as the boys in the Naval Academy are taken from the enlisted men.

Mr. DELANEY. Yes; and I will agree with you, Mr. Chairman; because, as I said, if we hope to get the boys, we must give them all the opportunity there is to get there.

Mr. SIROVICH. There is nothing in this bill that precludes it. You will have 75 percent of the men who go into the humblest places with an opportunity to climb the ladder of fame, fortune, and opportunity, and you will give 25 percent of the men who come from the training schools of the Nation a chance to climb the ladder.

Mr. DELANEY. We fear the fellow getting the short cut discouraging the other fellow from going in.

Mr. SIROVICH. There are many men who take the short cut in business and who go clean up to the top.

Mr. DELANEY. That is very true, Doctor; I will agree with you there but, as I stated before, this is a specialized industry. This is an industry, which, we believe, for the best interests of the industry itself and for the best interests of the country, should be learned from the bottom up.

Mr. SIROVICH. And a short cut is taken by Congressmen, too, in connection with your last remark, where men who are only here for 2, 3, or 4 years get on the Ways and Means Committee and the Appropriations Committee-not because the ranking Members or the chairmen of the committees cannot get there, but they prefer to stay where they are.

Mr. DELANEY. Nevertheless, I am talking about the incentive to get the best youth into the American merchant marine.

Mr. SIROVICH. I think these various schools throughout the country will do that by permitting an incentive to the others to do the same thing.

Mr. DELANEY. I cannot agree with you.

Mr. HART. You think the opportunity should be 100 percent and and not 75 percent to give that incentive?

Mr. DELANEY. I agree with that. I believe the man who goes in there goes in with the idea he will have an opportunity of going to the

top, and that nobody can beat him out of it so long as he plays the game square and gives the best that is in him to do so.

The brief submitted by Mr. Delaney follows:)

Ba:up in Support of a Proposed Amendment to 8. 2582 AND H. R 7521, Providing For Collective Bargaining BETWEEN Government St B81DIED CARRIERS AND RECOGNIZED MARITIME LABOR ORGANIZATIONS, SUBMITTED BY THE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF MASTERS, MATES, AND PILOTS OF AMERICA AND NATIONAL MARINE ENGINEERS' BENEFICIAL ASSOCIATION (Py Fred C. Bover, president National Organization of Masters, Mates, and Pots of Americs, and William S. Brown, president National Marine Engineers' Beneficial. Association:

The organizations who are parties to this submission represent approximately 14 000 Loensed deck and engine-room officers, with headquarters in the following parts of the United States and insular possessions: Astoria, Balboa (Canal Baltimore, Bay City, Boston, Bridgeport, Buffalo, Cairo, Charleston, Cheboygan, Cleveland, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cristobal (Canal Zone, Detroit, Dutti, Erie, Evansville, Galveston, Grand Haven, Green Bay, Greenport (Long Isaŭ 1, Jacksonville, Jeffersonville, Jersey City, Kingston, Manitowoc, Manistee, Memphis, Milwaukee, Mobile, Newark, New London, New Orleans, New York Gats, Norfolk, Oswego, Paducah, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Point Pleasant, Pat Harun, Portland (Maines, Portland (Öreg ), Providence, Saginaw, San*.sky, San Francisco, San Pedro, Saugatuck, Savannah, Seattle, St. Louis, Sturgeon Bay, Toledo, Troy, Vicksburg, and Washington.

PARTIES TO SUBMISSION

Parts to the submission of this brief, seeking the inclusion in each continued devat, subsidy contract of a clause providing for collective bargaining of shipping rates with the national maritime labor organizations, to determine all question of hours, wages, and working conditions, are the sole national labor organatoria, responsible to the men, of licensed deck and engine-room employees. The National Marine Engineers' Beneficial Association includes in its memberall the licetised personnel in the engine-room department. Organized in it is the fifth oldest labor organization in the United States. It is the only al organization of marine engineers. It is affiliated with the 21 standard ay organizations composing the Railway Labor Executives Association. 1. Nat, inal Organization of Masters, Mates, and Pilots of America has had gard constructive history, corresponding to that of the engineers" organizaOrganized over 30 years ago, it has grown through the years to fix its place kris as the only national organization which can be considered as representate of the licensed deck officers employed on American ships. It is affiliated the Aerican Federation of Labor and maintains the same affliations as the National Marine Engineers' Beneficial Association with respect to the Pasay Labor Executives Association.

Ither, the two organizations have in their history many decades of success! i work in the building of the American merchant marine. They have worked gether for the establishment of safety in water transportation through the development of aids to navigation, such as laws, pilot rules, light ships, lighthouses, babys, and water-depth information. They have had a large part in adding to the safety of water-borne trathe and commerce through insistence upon efficiency an i capability as prerequisite to the issuance of licenses for deck and engine-room

THE NEED FOR A COMPULSORY COLLECTIVE BARGAINING CLAUSE IN EACH OCEANSUBSIDY CONTRACT

Conditions under which American maritime labor is emploved have been progressively worse during the last several years. From 1919 on through the last ferade, and particularly after the influence of the Shipping Board became se, t, eit of the manne worker has fallen so steadily that a series of industrial distort ances have been the result. Three factors have given rise to this condition: a Eerachment by emplovers upon established working conditions, and increased hours of work; b. continued and drastic reductions in wages; (e) companywin domination.

(a) Conditions and hours.-Working conditions today are in nowise to be com. pared with those existing in the American shipping industry in 1920, or during the years of the major operations of the Shipping Board. There has been a steady decline in the privileges afforded licensed personnel of American ships, and a corresponding steady increase in the number of hours they have been required to work. At the present time the work-day runs from 8 to 16 hours, the average being, perhaps, 12. So-called "field-days" are always in vogue-a condition where an officer, after he has completed his watch, is required to do extra work such as repairing winches, plumbing, etc., for which he receives no extra or overtime pay.

An authority on the shipping industry of the United States (Ship Management and Operation, Robert S. Perry, Simmons-Boardman Publishing Co., 1931) sums up the situation as follows:

"At present as in the past, most shipping corporations have an unjustifiable apathetic attitude toward labor, and the company that does attempt to improve its labor conditions is really a stranger in the field

"The prosperity of our merchant shipping industry is dependent to a considerable extent upon the marine and longshore labor forces. A vessel represents a large capital investment and the profit obtained from this investment depends upon the work performed by the ship. Vessels must run on schedule under present business methods to an ever-increasing extent, and any factor hampering their continuity of operation must eventually if not immediately have an adverse effect on a shipping company's profit and loss statement. The United States Shipping Board has recognized this situation, and in one of its annual reports has stated that because of the effect that the labor element has upon costs of operations and because it is an industry particularly open to retaliation and labor reprisal, there is need for a sound and workable system of practical industrial relations that will make for prosperity in the merchant marine rather than having its managers and employees with mutual distrust and at cross purposes. Any .constructive effort along this line cannot be carried out successfully unless employers and employees cooperate to the fullest extent.' Wise personnel labor management will in time develop a loyal and intelligent group of workers. The American shipping industry must realize that one of its important operating losses is the direct result of the employment of a crew composed largely of the casual labor type and that an improvement in the type of labor will enable it to compete on most favorable terms with the maritime industry of foreign nations.

"The industrial relations division of the United States Shipping Board has been the outstanding organization in making studies of the marine labor situation, both on shore and on the high seas, but its activities are more or less for the general uplift of seamen as a group. This governmental agency concerns itself with industrial relations because it considers this work incidental but necessary to the improvement of the American merchant marine and because it is in the interest of economical and efficient operation of its own vessels. Its activities may be summarized briefly as the investigation and study of labor relations in the American merchant marine. The readjustment of wages and working conditions upon sound principles of economic justice, and the peaceable settlement of disputes; the taking of affirmative action in the promotion of better feeling generally between employers and employees; the collection, compilation, and classifying of data for study and comparison of American and foreign marine labor rates and conditions and the general improvement in personnel. Much valuable original research material was gathered during these studies, and an American shipping company considering the establishment of a modern labor policy will do well to study it carefully. It is interesting to note that the Shipping Board attempted to work out its labor policies through the medium of collective bargaining and that this principle worked out satisfactorily. The Board has also established itself as being in favor of a fair and impartial attitude toward organized labor and it has made many agreements with the several marine and longshore unions organized throughout the United States."

During the last few years the working rules which were established by the national organizations in submission hereto, and the United States Shipping Board, have first been disregarded and then abolished by the private operators. They are by no means excessive, providing only for certain fundamental conditions which any self-respecting working man is entitled to. They remain in effect today only in the case of a few exceptional employers among the shipping operators men who have refused to lend themselves to the steady campaign of degrading maritime labor, which has otherwise been in full operation.