The CHAIRMAN. I would like to ask you one other question.

From your study of this subject and your observations since, would you say that the indoctrination had a lasting and permanent effect in most cases, or that it had only a temporary effect and afterwards the influence of it dissipated and didn't continue? What would you say about that?

Captain CUMBY. Frankly, sir, I just don't know.

The CHAIRMAN. You would not be able to comment on that?
Captain CUMBY. No.

The CHAIRMAN. But it did serve their purpose for the time being.
Captain CUMBY. Oh, absolutely.

The CHAIRMAN. You referred to the one who was the leader, I believe Batchelor

Captain CUMBY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Who later repented or at least returned to this country.

Captain CUMBY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. He apparently was one of the hardest of the hard core, because he was chosen the leader?

Captain CUMBY. Yes, sir; that is true. He admitted that.

The CHAIRMAN. But we still have some over there who have not returned?

Captain CUMBY. You have 14, I believe, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Fourteen that are still there?
Captain CUMBY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions?

Senator MUNDT. By "still there," do you mean they are still there of their own volition or still there because they can't come back or can't get out?

Captain CUMBY. I don't know that. They elected to remain. Whether they are being held there now against their will I don't know.

The CHAIRMAN. Did Batchelor give you any report on that?
Captain CUMBY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What was his comment about it?

Captain CUMBY. He said they stayed because they wanted to stay. He stayed because he wanted to stay. He didn't come back because of any deep-rooted patriotism. He came back because they threatened to kill him within the neutral zone. He told me that.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean other Americans threatened to kill him or was it the Communists who threatened to kill him?

Captain CUMBY. This Communist business is a conspiracy where one group watches another. They went there in 23 and separated themselves into three groups of 7. Each group of 7 was under a leader. Batchelor was the leader of all of them. But each group had instructions from the Chinese to watch the other group to see that nobody deviated. So you had everybody informing on everybody else. Batchelor was a corporal. There was another man who was a sergeant. I won't call his name. General Gramya, who was in charge of guarding the prisoners in the neutral zone, said he was not going to recognize a corporal as leader of a group when he had a higher ranking noncommissioned officer there. So General Gamaya appointed this sergeant to take charge. As a result of that, Batchelor couldn't stand

taking second place and according to his own words he escaped being killed by just 2 hours.

The CHAIRMAN. Who was going to kill him?

Captain CUMBY. A fellow by the name of Lowell Skinner, who is one of the 14 who is there now.

The CHAIRMAN. It was a personal quarrel?

Captain CUMBY. It was a personal quarrel and jealousy over the leadership. Those fellows all aspired to be leaders of something, somewhere, some time, and they could not stand the idea of being demoted. Batchelor was demoted from his leadership and it was given to this sergeant.

The CHAIRMAN. So he lost face.

Captain CUMBY. He lost face and they were going to get rid of him.

The CHAIRMAN. One other question with respect to the one-third. Could you tell us how you arrived at that estimation or ratio of the number who continued to attend the indoctrination meeting?

Captain CUMBY. I would like to preface this answer by this: When I say that roughly one-third continued to attend the meetings I am not saying that we were told that every one of those one-third constituted a hard-core Communist,

The CHAIRMAN. No, I didn't understand that.

Captain CUMBY. He might have written one petition. I don't want the impression that here you have one-third of the captives in North Korea outright hard-core Communists. Obviously there was some degree of cooperation and collaboration. Otherwise they would not have stayed. If you want to know how I arrived at that, it was arrived at by this manner: This came from people who were rather high in the inner workings of the organization. There was a flat number mentioned of the total number of persons who had attended the compulsory training. Then when the compulsory training was no longer required, how many continued to attend the meetings? He gave a guess, and that figure came to one-third or roughly one-third of the total number who attended the meetings under compulsory conditions. The CHAIRMAN. So your best judgment and belief from the information you have is that the one-third figure is substantially accurate? Captain CUMBY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. But you do qualify it by saying that it doesn't necessarily mean that every one who attended on a voluntary basis had become converted to communism, but it certainly indicated to some degree cooperation and collaboration with them. Is that correct? Captain CUMBY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a correct statement?

Captain CUMBY. Yes, sir.

Senator MUNDT. When you stated that you got this information from someone, to whom does the "he" refer, a loyal American or some member of the Communist organization who became an informant? Captain CUMBY. Sir, I wouldn't want to categorize it at all. The man gave me a 14-page sworn statement and that information was checked by the Japan Joint Intelligence Processing Board. The agency that handled all prisoners on Big Switch. It was checked against the results of interrogations, that same question. I think other witnesses who will follow me will testify that that number is considered accurate.

Senator MUNDT. Then you didn't get it just from a "he." You got it confirmed by some other evidence and some other facts. Tell us how you got the information.

Captain CUMBY. None of the findings are based on what any one man said. That is dangerous to arrive at a conclusion by.

Senator MUNDT. That is why I was curious to know. You said you got it from a man and he told you.

Captain CUMBY. I merely mentioned "he" because this was the first man who gave me the information. He came clean about everything else.

Senator MUNDT. You subsequently corroborated that through other persons?

Captain CUMBY. Yes, sir. It was corroborated by the two prisoners who escaped and came back to our side. It checked all the way down the line.

Senator MUNDT. How would any 1 of the 3 or all 3 together come to have possession of statistics relating to the entire prison population in Communist China or Communist Korea? It would seem to me that in a large-scale operation like that they must have had prison camps or prison cages in substantial numbers.

Captain CUMBY. Sir, I explained in the beginning of my testimony that there was a North Korean Communist command, which was the GHQ. In that GHQ they had a number of sections, one of which was a section comparable to our personnel. There was an American sergeant who worked in that headquarters. He saw every strength report. He saw many of the classified documents. That man had access to practically every type of information that was held in this headquarters. He had placement and he had access.

to

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further with this witness?

Senator MCCARTHY. Mr. Chairman, in just 10 seconds I would like say I think the testimony of this witness demonstrates the importance of this hearing. I believe the significant part of his testimony is the testimony concerning Burchett, head of a Paris Communist paper, Winnington, head of a London Communist paper, the fact that Russian officers were in every prison camp, and the Daily Worker being distributed shows without question the nature of the world Communist conspiracy that was behind the Korean fight. I think if nothing else were accomplished, that alone would certainly justify the chairman in calling these hearings. I wish to commend him for doing so.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair felt, after being briefed by the staff on its preliminary study of this subject, that it obviously would be worth while to hold these hearings and get as much as possible of this information disseminated throughout America and as far as we can throughout the free world. We had Dr. Wolff and Dr. Hinkle testify this morning. They made quite a study of this. I think if every American and every freedom-loving human in the world could hear this and get the significance of it, it would help to build a great fortress against communism. I don't feel that what we are doing is a waste of time or a waste of your time. I think, as someone has facetiously said, maybe we are striking a blow for liberty as we carry on the proceedings.

When I came into the room a few minutes ago, Captain, Senator McCarthy was commending you for your testimony and I join in

those sentiments. The Chair on behalf of himself and the committee thanks you very much for your cooperation. If you care to say something else, we would be glad to hear you.

Captain CUMBY. One thing. I would like to correct the figure on the number of nonrepatriates that are still in China or wherever they are, not in our control. I said that their number was 14, but actually it is 18. It was originally 23. Batchelor and Dickenson came back. Then three others came back. One is supposed to be dead. That is the report. So actually it is 18, and not 14 as I said.

There is one other thing I would like to say. The results of all the interrogations reveal and point toward one thing: That Red China had two ambitions. Number one, she wanted to get in the United Nations. Number two, she wanted to establish diplomatic relations with the United States. That is her desire and her wish. It was indicated in every report that indicated what does Red China want. She wants international respectability and she expects to get it through the United Nations and by establishing diplomatic relations with the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. I hope you agree with us, at least with the Chair, and I imagine I speak for all the committee, I hope she never realizes that ambition.

Captain CUMBY. I hope not.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Hunter.

(Members of the committee present at this point: Senators McClellan, McCarthy, Mundt, and Bender.)

The CHAIRMAN. Will you be sworn, please. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before the Senate Investigating Subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. HUNTER. I do.

TESTIMONY OF EDWARD HUNTER

The CHAIRMAN. Be seated.

Mr. Hunter, state your name, your place of residence and your occupation or profession, please.

Mr. HUNTER. My name is Edward Hunter. My home is in Port Washington, Long Island.

I have been studying this question and what has led up to it for perhaps 30 years. I began with almost the birth of modern psychological warfare when in Japan I joined the newspaper there, the Japan Advertiser, when Premier Gi-ichi Tanaka took over the government. He is the author of the Tanaka Memorial, the outline for the conquest of the world which ultimately led to war and Pearl Harbor. I had a part in disclosing that.

I later saw the creation of the State of Manchukuo, how a puppet state was created through mind manipulation and war.

By some peculiar destiny that I can't explain, I found myself wherever this sort of thing was being advanced. I was in two civil wars in Spain, witnessing the same type of warfare with mind manipulation. I was in Ethiopia when the Italians took over that heroic kingdom of Abyssinia.

During the war I was with OSS where I saw psychological warfare from the inside, and then after a short period at home, doing foreign editing in America, I went back to Asia where, with my background of experience, I had the privilege of discovering brainwashing, the fundamental strategy of international communism for expansion and control. I put those facts into a book called Brain-Washing in Red China, at that time all I knew of how a mind could be destroyed. That was what I had found.

To my great thrill later on, I came upon a second pattern, how a mind could be preserved. That is what can save the free world and the United States. I put that material into a second book, Brainwashing, which has just come out.

That, in brief, is the story.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair didn't get the opportunity to ask you all the preliminary questions, but I assume you have already started testifying and it is not necessary for the Chair to further qualify you. You may proceed.

You have mentioned two books. I do not know whether the committee has copies of your book. If not, I would be very happy if you would let us file a copy of each volume with the committee as exhibits for reference.

Mr. HUNTER. I am happy to give you the second book. I do not have a copy of the first book with me. I will have it sent to the committee tomorrow or get it for you.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. It will be helpful to us, I am sure. These books may be filed for reference without any further identification.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Hunter, you are the one who coined the expression "brainwashing" as I understand it. Is that correct?

Mr. HUNTER. Yes, but I will have to explain that. Because of the word "coined."

Mr. KENNEDY. You are the one who first used the word "brainwashing"?

Mr. HUNTER. Yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. Will you tell the committee briefly how that came about?

Mr. HUNTER. I am usually introduced as the man who invented the word "brainwashing," who coined the word "brainwashing." I think in these hearings we have heard reference to the word "brainwashing" as a sort of coined, laboratory word.

Mr. KENNEDY. Before you start, I would like to say that Senator McCarthy has to leave early and he has some questions that he wants to ask you about some of the things you are going into later on. So if you could get through this preliminary part

Mr. HUNTER. It is terribly important to understand.

Senator MCCARTHY. Mr. Kennedy means be a little more brief. Mr. HUNTER. I am happy to say I brought the word into use. I was the first man to put the word into writing in any language. I was the first person to use the spoken word in any language except in Chinese. The word came out of the sufferings of the Chinese people. Mr. KENNEDY. Would you tell the committee how it was that you came about using the word?

Mr. HUNTER. I had been following the events that constitute brainwashing for quite a long period. I had no realization except a pe