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The CHAIRMAN. Of the remainder; yes.

Mr. HAMMOND. He would be in compliance if he took these 350 acres out. He could go ahead and plant the rest of it in any crop that did not have marketing quotas.

The CHAIRMAN. That did not have marketing quotas?

Mr. HAMMOND. Any crop that did not have marketing quotas.

The CHAIRMAN. So that he could plant grasses on that and use cattle to compete with other farmers.

Mr. HAMMOND. No.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, they are not protected.

Mr. HAMMOND. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, he could.

Mr. HAMMOND. Yes; that is right.

The CHAIRMAN. And he could maybe grow sorghum which is not protected; he could put sorghum and grow more hogs to compete with the fellow from Iowa.

That is your plan?

Mr. HAMMOND. That is the plan.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what I want to know.

Mr. HAMMOND. But, now, let me show you what they are doing now. He not only takes that 300 acres out of cotton, but he takes 350 more of that 750 acres that he is putting in corn in competition to Iowa now. The CHAIRMAN. Well, you know we have heard from a lot of witnesses who contend, as I remember it, that we should not permit diverted acres to be put into crops that compete with other crops or commodities that are in surplus. I would say that at every place we have been, the plan has been suggested to set aside these diverted acres and pay the farmer a rental or some kind of compensation so that there would be a complete removal, they would be completely removed from production, say, of cotton, wheat, or any other protected or surplus commodity.

Now, that would not be the plan you are advocating?

Mr. HAMMOND. We are not advocating that.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. HAMMOND. The only payment we are talking about

The CHAIRMAN. I understand, the 20 percent.

Mr. HAMMOND. You might want to step up the soil-conservation payments.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. HAMMOND. That is all we think we should have.

I want to go a little further on that illustration you have about a farmer taking some acres out of cotton or wheat and putting it in corn. Now, in that, the natural thing, with no laws at all, no regulationsif you were a wheat producer and you lost your foreign market, through no cause of your own, and the other farmers sit here and allowed you to lose the market for your wheat, you have a right to whatever market is left here in this country; that is our philosophy on that point.

So, in summing the thing up, that is what we do.

If this group of farmers allow this farmer to lose a foreign market and he goes in and gets a part of whatever is left, and we cut the acres off, so we can just produce the amount that can be sold at a profit to the farmers of the country.

Say a

Senator EASTLAND. I want to understand your program. farmer has got 1,000 acres in cultivation and he has got 500 acres in cotton. Just explain how your program would work on that 1,000acre farm.

Mr. HAMMOND. Are you going to have marketing quotas on the cotton?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. HAMMOND. Marketing quotas. All right. This fellow-first of all, we say in our program that we are not advocating abolishing the marketing quota system, but this fellow that you describe first must comply with the soil building or soil bank program before he canSenator EASTLAND. Just explain in acreage how your program will work; let us be simple.

Mr. HAMMOND. He has 1,000 acres and he has a 500-acre allotment

Senator EASTLAND. That is the four allotments.

Mr. HAMMOND. The four allotments?

Senator EASTLAND. Yes.

Mr. HAMMOND. His normal planting would be 500 acres of cotton? Senator EASTLAND. Yes.

Mr. HAMMOND. What would happen in that case would be and it is all supposition-we say suppose it is 15 percent that the Secretary required everybody to take out. This fellow would have to take out 150 acres that he could not plant any crop that would get into the market directly.

Now, then, he would only be-we would say his reduction would be to where he would be allotted 400 acres of cotton. Then the difference between 150 and 100, that is 250, he would have 750 acres and he planted 400 acres in cotton, and he would have 150 acres with no crop to be harvested, and the rest of that that is left he would plant in crops of his own choosing.

Senator EASTLAND. 350 acres he would put in whatever he desired? Mr. HAMMOND. Yes.

Senator EASTLAND. That is what I wanted.

Mr. HAMMOND. He would plant that in crops of his choosing.
The CHAIRMAN. Could he plant cotton?

Mr. HAMMOND. Any crop that could not have marketing quotas.
Senator EASTLAND. He could not plant cotton?

Mr. HAMMOND. He could not plant cotton.

The CHAIRMAN. He could plant corn since there are no marketing quotas?

Mr. HAMMOND. He could not plant any of the six basics.

The CHAIRMAN. But, I say, since there is no marketing quota on corn; then he could plant corn?

Mr. HAMMOND. He could plant corn. If there were no marketing quotas on cotton, he could plant cotton.

The CHAIRMAN. There is no protection

Senator EASTLAND. You are talking about the 350 acres; is that right?

Mr. HAMMOND. What was that?

The CHAIRMAN. That is what we are talking about.

Mr. HAMMOND. I did not get that one.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what we are talking about, the 350 acres. Mr. HAMMOND. Yes.

He would be privileged to plant those 350 acres in any crop of his choosing provided there was not a marketing quota on some of these basics that would prohibit him.

I would like to explain this one other way: I think that a fellow who produced broomcorn has got as much right to a Government program as basic commodities, as others, we will say, barley-they have got as much right to that.

Now, suppose that you follow that philosophy, and suppose that every commodity in the United States says, "We want a marketing quota program.

All right. You would wind up with a soil bank plan with a million people to administer it because you have to go out there on the farm and measure every little crop he has got, and this 100 acres that we took out of cotton in your illustration would have to be blank because every time you put a marketing quota on a crop you cannot plant your diverted acreage in that, so we would wind up in the soil bank because we would have all the acres taken out of the marketing crop. Senator EASTLAND. I want to ask you this question: In my State, in Louisiana and all the South, farmers grow corn for use on the farm for consumption on the farm. Some of them sell that corn.

Now, if there were marketing quotas on corn, do I understand that under your proposal that farmers could not grow any corn on it? Mr. HAMMOND. If it is in a commercial area he could not plant it. Senator EASTLAND. Well, let us say it is noncommercial area? Mr. HAMMOND. Noncommercial area?

Senator EASTLAND. Noncommercial area.

Mr. HAMMOND. Then he could plant the corn.
Senator EASTLAND. He could plant the corn?

Mr. HAMMOND. We do not propose to disturb the marketing quota program.

The CHAIRMAN. And you would put a marketing quota with a support price on all grains produced?

Mr. HAMMOND. Marketing quota-it is almost that, but not quite

accurate.

The CHAIRMAN. What would you leave out?

Mr. HAMMOND. Here is a thing

The CHAIRMAN. What would you leave out?
Mr. HAMMOND. What?

The CHAIRMAN. What would you leave out?

Mr. HAMMOND. You would not leave anything out on a marketing quota. If you put a marketing quota on a crop, the Secretary decides what percent of the acres to take out.

On this proposal we decide how many acres to take out of all the crops in the United States, and that would be his requirement for compliance with the soil bank plan.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions?

Senator EASTLAND. No questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, sir.

Mr. Dickie?

Will you give us your name in full, please, and your occupation.

STATEMENT OF ALEX DICKIE, JR., PRESIDENT, TEXAS FARMERS UNION, DENTON, TEX.

Mr. DICKIE. Sir, I am Alex Dickie, Jr., from Denton County, Tex I own and operate 1,500 acres of land in Denton County, Tex. I am president of the Texas Farmers Union.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you got a dry-land farm?

Mr. DICKIE. Yes, sir; and an irrigated farm; I do both; yes, sir. I run about 300 head of beef cattle, and I grow some oats and barley in rotation.

Against my operation at this time I owe $129,000 at 52 percent interest.

The CHAIRMAN. When did you buy your farm?

Mr. DICKIE. In 1947 I started.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you buy it on credit when you bought it?
Mr. DICKIE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you reduced it since then?

Mr. DICKIE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And you got back in debt; is that it?

Mr. DICKIE. Yes, sir; $21,000 in the last 3 years; I have gone the

other way.

The CHAIRMAN. I see.

What do you grow?

Mr. DICKIE. Beef cattle.

The CHAIRMAN. Beef cattle?

Mr. DICKIE. I sell some grain and some legume seed.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not grow any cotton?

Mr. DICKIE. No, sir; I have no basics.

The CHAIRMAN. No basics?

Mr. DICKIE. But, as I see it

The CHAIRMAN. That is, you have grain but not corn?
Mr. DICKIE. No, sir; I have no allotment.

As I see it, my operation is as basic to me as any other farmer's operation in this country, because it determines whether I keep my farm or whether I send my children to school or how much money I make and, as I say, in the last 3 years it has cost me $21,000.

I had made money before that, and I had my operation going to where I could have made a living, and where I could have stayed with it.

The CHAIRMAN. You still owe how much, you say?

Mr. DICKIE. $129,000.

Surrounding my 800 acres of black land, I have some 14 families who touch that farm, and 13 of those families, either the husband or the wife or the husband and wife, both, work to supplement the farm income-work full time. The 14th man has outside income on his wife's side.

In my particular case I teach in the veterans' agriculture program to supplement my farm income, and I say that picture is true in all Denton County, and in most of the farming sections of Texas, and these farms around me average in size some 200 acres, and they are as good black-land farms as there are anywhere, and yet they are making their living from other sources.

I am not a 40-acre-and-mule farmer. I use the biggest diesel tractor that is made on rubber, and I irrigate 200 acres.

I have known all my life that I wanted to make my livelihood from farming, and I went to Texas A. and M. and took a degree in animal husbandry, and I took a master's degree in North Texas State College in economics.

I say I prepared for this in that manner.

I paint this gloomy picture in agriculture because I tell you that something must be done very quickly to relieve this chaotic situation we face in agriculture.

The price decline is staggering. This past Monday I brought some fat calves down here that had been fed all their lives, and they brought 15 cents a pound on the Fort Worth stockyards.

A little over 3 years ago those same type calves brought me more than twice that figure.

I cannot think of anything, with the exception of what I am buying from other farmers, that my dollars do not buy less than they did when I was selling those calves for twice that amount of money. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know how much the retail price has been during the last 3 years?

Mr. DICKIE. It is not anywhere near in line with what it should be, I know that.

The average age of the farmers is getting higher and higher. I believe it is maybe 57 years average age of the farmers, and I am going to tell you, and I believe you know it, that the only way that a young man now can get into farming is to inherit money or inherit his land. There is no other way for him to get in there and make a go at the present price of things.

The CHAIRMAN. He could do it if he had an oil well.

Mr. DICKIE. Yes, if you had several of those.

And these older farmers, as they die off, the land is going into fewer and fewer hands each year.

I hear the Secretary of Agriculture say that any red-blooded cattle raiser opposes these Government price-support programs, and he desires his freedom in a competitive market place.

I say the cattle raiser who comes down to Fort Worth to this open market looking for a free competitive market to sell his cattle, finds monopoly at its bulging best, which leaves him in a singular position, and he is totally unprotected.

I do not have time today to cover this entire disastrous picture, but I say to you that if you have any doubts about how the farmers feel on these programs, go to the farmer; don't ask the Farmers Union or the Farm Bureau or the meat packers, ask the farmer. Put these various proposals in the form of a referendum and let them vote. [Applause.]

Down to this point in painting a gloomy picture there will not be much disagreement with my testimony today. Everybody is going to tell you that we are in bad shape, and I believe you have been told everywhere you go, but do not make any mistake about my solution to it. I am going to get to that right now.

I think we are going to have to have 100 percent of parity on all farm commodities, with controls where they are necessary.

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