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Mr. SMITH. I have some brood cows and I raise feeder yearlings and I got on the other side of the fence and fed some cattle, but I found out it is not rosy, either.

Senator THYE. Because you had to buy the feed?

Mr. SMITH. I had to buy the feed; yes, sir.

Senator THYE. So that operation you did not fiind too profitable? Mr. SMITH. I assure your choice cattle is below cost of production.

Senator THYE. What did you think of Mr. Davis' idea? You are now the man raising beef cattle, so that his proposal would in some manner affect you. Just how did that proposal of his strike you?

Mr. SMITH. Senator, I think that his proposal has some merit, but for any one to give a snap judgment on it, I would not want to today. Senator THYE. Just on the surface you thought it had some merit? Mr. SMITH. Yes.

Senator THYE. I thought so, too.

Senator YOUNG. Don't you think that an abundance of cheap feed as in the last 2 or 3 years has been responsible for increase in production of beef?

Mr. SMITH. I think any time we have cheap grain and cheap feed we will have tonnage of beef to sell. I think when we have these diverted acres we have had most fertile acres in the country, whenever you take them out of farming and into pasture those acres will carry more cattle than our native grasses.

Senator YOUNG. In most of these meetings now cattlemen state that they have an interest in the price of feed grains. But 2 or 3 years ago many cattlemen were saying they had no interest at all in the price support program for grains, that it was hurting them.

Mr. SMITH. I for one have always said any time we have cheap feed we are going to have more tonnage of beef than we can move and we have that today.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Mr. Foster, please.

STATEMENT OF DAVID FOSTER, KINGFISHER, OKLA.

Mr. FOSTER. My name is David Foster. I am a farmer from Kingfisher County.

Gentlemen, I am 55 years old and I have spent my entire lifetime on a farm. My grandfather homesteaded in 1889. In 1920 or 1921 I attended this college. In 1921 in the summer I couldn't go back to this college. After the First World War you gentlemen remember prices of farm commodities dropped from around $2.50 to 65 cents. So Pa told me I couldn't go back to college, we didn't have the money. I got a job in a one-room school as teacher and began to farm and I continued that up until 1939. In 1939 I had accumulated and rented enough land I felt I could make a living without teaching on the side.

For some reason the farmers of Kingfisher County elected me chairman of their county committee, of which I have been a member ever since. I do not speak as a member of that committee or any organization, but just my own views.

Because of these different activities of teaching and farming and on this committee, I think I have some of the views of our county farm

64440-56-pt. 5-17

ers. I think about 5 percent of our farmers would tell you to kick this thing as far as you can kick it, any farm organization; I believe that.

We have some of the farmers who believe if we get off this acreage control and put it on a bushel basis it would be better. I think the majority feels we have a fairly good program with some exceptions, what we have now.

One is we should have stricter regulations on the penalty, the man that overseeds. He should be put in line. Another is this price support and sliding scale has dropped so low that many of the little farmers cannot exist. I have a chart here.

The CHAIRMAN. In that connection is it your view
Mr. FOSTER. These are my personal views.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand that, but is it your view that the lower the price on the commodity the more apt is the farmer to increase production to catch up on his losses to try to make both ends meet? Mr. FOSTER. I have here what I would like to present to you gentlemen by the Government statisticians. In our county the Government made a survey of all the counties in the State of Oklahoma. Now I am going to take you a few minutes on my county alone.

In this county, 30 miles square, this much cropland-
The CHAIRMAN. State it for the record.

Mr. FOSTER. In this 572,000-odd acres of land there are 354,224 acres tillable. Out of this 354,000 there are 318,244 acres carrying a wheat history. That is around 90 percent of all tillable lands in that county planted to wheat. Of that amount the 135,000 acres is in pasture. Now, our wheat allotment for this year, what we have in the ground now is 207,812 acres, of which we have 146,416 acres diverted land. They came out with a Census Bureau here lately saying the average farm in the county is 331 acres. Of this 228 acres will be in cultivation. Of that 228 acres 104 acres, I means this is in cultivation, only 104 acres of this 331 is in pasture.

All right. Now taking these figures from this, this average farm in our county has 200 acres of wheat history. Our county factor is 65.2. In other words, 65.2 of the wheat history is planted to wheat. This lets the average sized farmer have a 130-acre wheat allotment.

Average is 14 bushels an acre, and this boy gets 1,820 bushels production. We will get back up here. Price support in our county for this crop in the ground is $1.81 if he leaves it on the farm. Now, 90 percent of all our wheat is not stored on the farm. Really all this boy will get is $1.68 for that wheat if he puts it in the loan. You take $1.68 and multiply by 1,820 bushels and he will have $3,057.

Senator THYE. May we develop that a little further? If stored on the farm, the farmer gets $1.81 per bushel, and if stored in town, $1.68.

Mr. FOSTER. 13 cents off.

Senator THYE. If you store it on your own premises do you get paid for storage? If the producer stores

Mr. FOSTER. He gets $1.81.

Senator THYE. He gets paid for storage?

Mr. FOSTER. I signed my name to about a million dollars worth of those loans. I might be mistaken.

Senator THYE. I might be mistaken, too. Mr. Harper Stanton, our legal counsel on the committee, tells me that the producer does not get paid for storage.

Mr. FOSTER. We used to didn't do that.

Senator THYE. The second year if you store the commodity then the producer gets compensation. I think that is the situation.

Mr. FOSTER. I agree with you a hundred percent.

Senator THYE. I understand.

Mr. FOSTER. Now he will get that total income off that average farm. The point I am trying to make is

The CHAIRMAN. $3,057?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, total from the farm. We are talking about not letting him have anything from his diverted acres. If he is a tenant he won't even get $2,036.40. That is all he will get because

The CHAIRMAN. Is the rental a third?

Mr. FOSTER. He will get two-thirds.
The CHAIRMAN. The rent is a third.

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, customarily a third of the crop.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that high?

Mr. FOSTER. That is customary. Some of the boys want two-fifths and they get it sometimes, but we don't think much of them. The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. FOSTER. The point I want to make is how can a farmer on the average-sized farm in Kingfisher County buy a 3-plow tractor that will cost between $2,000 and $3,000 or $3,500 with that $2,000 as gross income, nothing out for preparing soil, seeding and harvesting, and buying his wife a new dress? This $1.68 is out of line. Our farmers in our county do not object, in fact we have 95 percent of our farmers staying in compliance. My suggestion is in this chart right here. I think your price support program should be put on a graduated basis similar to income tax. The little boy is being squeezed out by the big man. I think that the first thousand bushels or pounds of any commodity should draw 100 percent of parity. I have a chart here that the first thousand bushels of wheat should be a hundred percent of parity, the next thousand he gets 98, the next thousand, 96, and take him right on down the line just like the income tax.

Therefore, when he gets down a man raising 20,000 bushels of wheat will not burden the Government with a lot of extra wheat because it will not be profitable for him to raise it.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you give the big producer a hundred percent on the first thousand?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, on the first thousand. I pay the same income tax as a millionaire does on the first thousand dollars I make.

The CHAIRMAN. What would you give to the fellow who has a plant producing 20 million bushels?

Mr. FOSTER. He would be just like the man that made $2 million. Uncle Sam would take most of it away from him. I wouldn't support that price when it got down that low.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you not think if we put that into law we might have a shortage of wheat?

Mr. FOSTER. I don't think so.

The CHAIRMAN. If you made it so that nobody would produce it, unless you could get more small farmers

Mr. FOSTER. We are trying to protect the little man.

The CHAIRMAN. You think your plan would have the tendency of inviting more small farmers to get back to the farm and get away from the city?

Mr. FOSTER. I am just a country boy that lives in the bend of the Cimmarron River, and it is hard for me before you distinguished gentlemen to express myself.

The CHAIRMAN. You can take care of yourself. You are doing very well.

Mr. FOSTER. Gentlemen, according to this census, I got these records out of our office, I never made these up, in our county in 1950 there was 1,978 farms. In 1954 we have only 1,658 farms, a loss of 320. I told that to the barber. He said it is not 320 less haircuts we have, it means about 900 less haircuts. It is not a healthy condition that these little people have to move off the farm.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think the dollar and a half haircut had something to do with it?

Mr. FOSTER. It might have. The thought hadn't come to me but since listening to these gentlemen, it has always been my thoughtThe CHAIRMAN. Would you apply the same principle on every other commodity?

Mr. FOSTER. Cotton, peanuts, all.

The CHAIRMAN. Why not peanuts?

Mr. FOSTER. I said peanuts or any farm commodity.

The CHAIRMAN. How about other commodities? How about the poultry grower?

Mr. FOSTER. That poultry deal, you are getting into hot water on that. It could be worked out but he would have to be a mechanic. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, the program you are submitting would work well as to any crop subject to controls?

Mr. FOSTER. Basic commodities.

The CHAIRMAN. Protecting them would indirectly affect the growth of the perishables.

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, I see no reason why anybody should receive a million-dollar cotton loan and that has happened, I think.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it has.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. I might say that I have heard some of my central western Kansas farmers discussing something along that graduated line that you have set out there, not exactly that kind of detail but on that general principle. Let's go to one other thing.

In the western part of your State and the western part of my State and in some sections of the Dakotas with the upland farmers, we have wheat as one of the major crops and the next best crop is our sorghum grains. Now would you envision that program applying to all crops that are determined to be the basic crops and eligible to support prices?

Mr. FOSTER. I think that is right. These are figures then would apply like to me on wheat. I see no reason why the Government should go to the extremes that when a man has a large unit there he can raise a lot of cotton or wheat on one farm, why he should be supported to an extreme amount of money.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. As I understand, now that would be under acreage controls.

Mr. FOSTER. I would have all the regulations you got right now, in fact I would make them a little stricter.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. As they go down the line, say I was a big farmer in corn and raised a good many thousands of bushels of corn, and I would get up into an area there where my support price would go way on down. I would go into additional cattle feeding or hogs. What would that do to these cattle and hog boys? Mr. FOSTER. He can do that right now.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. I am afraid he can and that is causing trouble. Mr. FOSTER. My gadget will not shove him further.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. You wouldn't go for any curtailment program on livestock? You would let him go?

Mr. FOSTER. I think we have a good program right now that if you made these boys stay in line a little more and help the little man, your big fellow will take care of himself. You take care of your pennies, the dollars will take care of themselves. If we take care of the little boy the big man will navigate. I started from scratch and I know it is hard. All of us don't have the ability to teach school or other jobs. We have people whose abilities are not that kind and they cant accumulate these things and those are the people we must protect. The big man will be all right. You can throw it out and I will live.

You don't need to protect me but you have to protect these 320 farm boys that left our county.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. We heard in testimony presented to this committee a great deal about these younger fellows starting out. With the high costs of everything, with the reduction in the prices they get, and with curtailment of acreage, it just was squeezing them out. Let me ask you this: What is your theory on diverted acres?

Mr. FOSTER. My personal opinion on diverted acres in our county, if we take all diverted acres out you would take 30 percent of all cropland. That would be too much. That would break the economy of that county. I would set aside 20 percent of the diverted acres that must be in a soil-building crop and make the ACP payments as you have in the past, but at least 20 percent in a soil-building crop.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. Would you have that across the board, using your county as a guinea pig?

Mr. FOSTER. We have an average county. The unit of 331 acres was a $35,000 farm. That is the Government's figures. Garfield County and others in the central part, counties run about the same, they are all losing their farmers. In a wheat area you can operate, these big tractors you can get out there and put out a lot of acreage quick. X little man can't operate like that.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. Going back to the diverted acres, I see you made quite a study of this. You have come up the hard way and you are not a theoretical man, but do you have any judgment that you want to express as to what ought to be paid on diverted acres in an average county?

Mr. FOSTER. I haven't studied that, but we must have part of this because in our county I expect 60 percent of our farmers are tenants and these old folks have retired up town and are dependent on this one farm for an income. You take this average farm, that fellow would have only about a thousand dollars income off the farm and would have to pay the taxes.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. You are getting into something fundamental. Mr. FOSTER. He has to have a little off those diverted acres in order

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