NOMINATION OF HON. ROBERT B. PIRIE, JR. TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 3, 2000

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,

Washington, DC.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:40 a.m., in room SR222, Russell Senate Office Building, Senator John Warner (chairman) presiding.

Committee members present: Senators Warner, Inhofe, and Levin.

Committee staff members present: Romie L. Brownlee, staff director; Judith A. Ansley, deputy staff director; Scott W. Stucky, general counsel.

Professional staff members present: Charles S. Abell, Gary M. Hall, George W. Lauffer, Patricia L. Lewis, Thomas L. MacKenzie. Minority staff members present: David S. Lyles, staff director for the minority; Creighton Greene, professional staff member; Gerald J. Leeling, minority counsel; Peter K. Levine, minority counsel; Michael J. McCord, professional staff member.

Staff assistants present: Beth Ann Barozle and Michele A. Traficante.

Committee members' assistants present: Gregory C. McCarthy, assistant to Senator Inhofe; George M. Bernier, III, assistant to Senator Santorum; Thomas A. Vecchiolla, assistant to Senator Snowe; Robert Alan McCurry, assistant to Senator Roberts.

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHN WARNER,

CHAIRMAN

Chairman WARNER. Good morning, everybody. Sorry to be a few minutes off schedule.

Well, I look forward with great pleasure to this nomination. I think the President and the Secretary of Defense have chosen very wisely. You have rendered noble service to your country over a very long period of time. We are fortunate, as citizens, to have you willing, together with your family, to undertake this new assignment. So, we meet today to receive your testimony for the position of Under Secretary of the Navy.

The person that wrote this statement has deviated from what I usually say, but I am going to accept what they say. I support you. Usually, we couch our remarks until after the hearing and the questions and so forth. But you and I talked yesterday, as we have many times before, and I am confident that this nomination will receive the support of this committee, and indeed the Senate, as a

whole. You are most deserving. We are familiar with your work over many years, beginning in the Carter administration, when you served as the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Manpower, Reserve Affairs and Logistics, and during your tenure as Vice President of the Center for Naval Analysis, and Vice President of the Institute of Defense Analysis. You are, currently, of course, serving in the Navy Department as Assistant Secretary with a wide portfolio.

[The prepared statement of Chairman Warner follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT BY SENATOR JOHN WARNER

The Committee will come to order.

The Committee meets today to receive testimony concerning a civilian nomination. Mr. Robert B. Pirie has been nominated to be the Under Secretary of the Navy. I support Mr. Pirie in this nomination, and I am pleased that the Secretary of Defense and the President decided to recommend him for this important position.

Mr. Pirie, we are all familiar with you through your many years of exposure to this Committee beginning in the Carter administration when you served as the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Manpower, Reserve Affairs and Logistics, and during your tenure as Vice President of the Center for Naval Analyses and Vice President of the Institute of Defense Analyses.

As a former Under Secretary of the Navy I know well how important this position is. I know you will be challenged every day. I am sure you will be up to the challenge.

Mr. Pirie, I understand that your wife, Joan, and your children could not be here with you today.

Before we hear from our nominee, I would like to yield to Senator Levin for any opening comments he may want to make.

Chairman WARNER. Senator Levin.

STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARL LEVIN

Senator LEVIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me join you in welcoming Secretary Pirie to the committee this morning. You have accurately stated his very outstanding record of leadership, dedication and commitment to this nation. I join you in supporting this nomination.

When he is confirmed, Secretary Pirie will be moving into the position of Under Secretary of the Navy at a very critical point in the Navy's history. Under Secretary Hultin was leading the Navy's efforts to reform its business processes to ensure that maximum support is provided to our naval forces for every dollar we invest. I believe that you, Secretary Pirie, with your extensive background in the installations and logistics areas, should be well positioned to carry on this effort. The Navy has historically dealt with the dayto-day strains of deployment and high-operating tempos. With everyone's concerns about supporting the readiness of our deployed and our non-deployed forces, your efforts in improving the supporting structure will be particularly crucial.

So, I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for calling this hearing. I look forward to supporting Secretary Pirie's nomination when it gets to the floor. Hopefully, that will happen very promptly after our hearing today. I look forward to working with you, Secretary Pirie, in your new position.

Chairman WARNER. Thank you very much, Senator Levin.

We are going to incur votes here, shortly. I would like to put in the record that it is most impressive of what you have achieved, particularly in your service to the Navy.

Senator Inhofe.

STATEMENT OF SENATOR JAMES M. INHOFE

Senator INHOFE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have an EPW hearing going on at the same time. So, I will be here just for a brief while, but I did come here in support of Mr. Pirie.

I have some questions that I think perhaps you could answer in your opening statement and you probably will.

One statement by Vice Admiral Nathan as to the overall condition of our Navy and the problems with the spare parts and with the rates and the quote that he made, "The fact is that we have reached such a low level of funding, it will soon be impossible to meet the expectations of this nation in executing our operational tasks in completing the mission."

In chairing the Readiness Subcommittee, I am very, very much concerned about not just the Navy, but all the services. Then I hope you will have time to touch on the necessity for the integrated training that we have been able to use over the years at Vieques and the problems we are having right now.

Hopefully, you will come to the same conclusion that I do, that after looking at every possible alternative there is, hopefully, we will be able to do that shortly.

That is all I have to say, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman WARNER. Thank you very much.

[The prepared statement of Senator Inhofe follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT BY SENATOR JAMES M. INHOFE

• A recently released report by the Navy Inspector General was highly critical of the health of Naval Aviation. Spare part shortages, aging equipment with its associated higher maintenance requirements, and climbing cannibalization rates are all contributing to readiness shortfalls, particularly for the non-deployed and shore based units. Furthermore, On August 24th, 2000, Vice Admiral Nathan, Commander of the Naval Air Forces in the Pacific stated, "the fact is that we have reached such a low level of funding it will soon be impossible to meet the expectations of this nation in executing our operational tasks and completing the mission."

• Would you comment on the status of Naval Aviation and what it will take to fix it?

• The grounding of 413 Marine Corps aircraft (Harriers, Cobra and SeaStallion helicopters, and Osprey) the week of 28 August begs the question about the state of readiness of Marine Corps aviation. As a service you are forced to fly aircraft with the oldest average age. I am concerned about every marine on those aircraft.

• Would you comment on the Marine Corp requirements to modernize Marine aviation?

• As Chairman of the Readiness Subcommittee, I have looked into all the possible alternatives to Vieques only to find the is no alternative to Vieques. As a combined training experience nothing comes close and I have had commander after commander testify to that fact.

• Would you please give your opinion as to the importance of live fire integrated training prior to deploying in harm's way?

• What number of ships do you believe the Navy needs with its current level of commitment and its requirement to support the two MTW National Security Strategy?

Chairman WARNER. Would you proceed with your statement, such as it may be? We talked about it yesterday. Then we will proceed to the questions.

STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT B. PIRIE, JR., NOMINEE FOR UNDER SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

Secretary PIRIE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Senator Levin and Senator Inhofe. Thank you very much. I very much appreciate you having me here today.

I have no lengthy prepared statement. We will let the answers to the questions, which I have submitted, stand for a prepared statement, Mr. Chairman. I do have a short verbal statement, that with your permission, I will present.

I am extremely honored to be nominated to be the next Under Secretary of the Navy and follow in the illustrious footsteps of so many Under Secretaries before me.

Over the past 6 years

Chairman WARNER. You know that Jim Forrestal was the first Under Secretary. Frank Knox conceived of a Secretary of the Navy during World War II and conceived of the idea that he could bring someone in who would be given primarily the procurement and the rapid build-up that the Department of Navy was undertaking at that time.

I read his biography. He always treasured that job, because he said he did not have to be bothered with the bloody press. But he learned in later life what it meant by getting bothered by the bloody press. [Laughter.]

Secretary PIRIE. I would hope to be so lucky as time goes on.

In any case, Mr. Chairman, over the past 6 years, as Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Installations and Environment, I have worked hard with you and this committee and the other committees of the Congress on many important issues. Together, we have done great things in support of the quality of life of our Sailors and Marines. This committee has been particularly helpful in the areas of military compensation and military construction.

But I have also worked hard on such things as the orderly conveyance of base closure property to the affected communities, and the ways in which we can comply fully with environmental law and regulation while offering the least obstruction to operations and training.

Should I be confirmed, I look forward to continuing this relationship and further enhancing the quality of life of our Sailors and Marines and the readiness of our forces.

I would like to thank you for your consideration today, and ask for your support. I would welcome any questions that you may have of me, sir.

[The prepared statement of Secretary Pirie follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT BY ROBERT B. PIRIE, JR.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you and your committee for having me here today. I am greatly honored to be nominated to be the next Under Secretary of the Navy.

Mr. Chairman, over the past 6 years as Assistant Secretary of the Navy (Installations and Environment) I have worked hard with you, this committee, and the other committees of Congress on many important issues. I believe that together we have done great things in support of the quality of life of our Sailors and Marines. This committee has been particularly helpful in the areas of military compensation and military construction. But I have also worked hard on such things as the orderly conveyance of base closure property to affected communities, and the ways in which we can comply fully with environmental law and regulation while offering the least

obstruction to operations and training. Should I be confirmed, I look forward to continuing this relationship and further enhancing the quality of life of our Sailors and Marines and the readiness of our forces. I would like to thank you for your consideration today and ask for your support. I would now welcome any questions you may have of me.

Chairman WARNER. Just as a historical note, ask the Navy historian to check the Office of the Secretary, I will bet you are the first career Naval officer, of 20 years-plus, to have ever occupied that post. I know of several who have had brief tours of Active Duty, but it is quite impressive from Annapolis all the way up to this vote. That speaks well.

We have the standard questions asked of all nominees.

Have you adhered to the applicable laws and regulations governing conflict of interest?

Secretary PIRIE. Yes, sir. I have.

Chairman WARNER. Have you assumed any duties or undertaken any actions which would appear to pressure the outcome of the confirmation process?

Secretary PIRIE. I have not presumed on the confirmation process, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman WARNER. Will you ensure that your staff complies with deadlines established for requested communications, including questions for the record in hearings?

Secretary PIRIE. I will, sir.

Chairman WARNER. Of course, these questions are applicable to the House, as well as to the Senate.

Secretary PIRIE. Yes, sir.

Chairman WARNER. Will you cooperate in providing witnesses and briefers in response to Congressional requests?

Secretary PIRIE. I will, sir.

Chairman WARNER. Will those witnesses be protected from reprisal for their testimony or briefings should it be in conflict with that of their superiors?

Secretary PIRIE. Yes, sir.

Chairman WARNER. Now, let us take a look at this Quadrennial Defense Review. In your written response to advanced questions concerning the QDR, you state "it must lead to providing the required resources to modernize and recapitalize the current force, while at the same time, providing for the readiness of that force.' In testimony before this committee last week, the Joint Chiefs presented data that showed we are not currently building ships or Navy/Marine Corps aircraft at a rate that will sustain a modernized force. Yet, the readiness levels, particularly of units not on deployment, have fallen precipitously low.

The QDR revalidates the need for a force structure essentially the same size as now. Do you see any way, other than the infusion of significantly higher funding levels, to achieve the stated goals of recapitalization, while maintaining current readiness?

Secretary PIRIE. Well, Mr. Chairman, it appears to me that we have done a reasonable job of protecting near term readiness. In fact, we have shifted considerable resources in the past 2 years toward near term readiness. What is left over for recapitalization and modernization is inadequate at this point. So, I would expect that in order to meet our shipbuilding goals and have a program that will sustain the existing force, more resources will be required.