uled association and received it. It now amounts to over 50 percent of the business of the independent carriers. Mr. TAVENNER. Therefore, the work of these particular independent carriers was integrated with that of the military craft and used military installations? Mr. HEACOCK. It was-it is primarily the movement of troops between military installations in the United States, and especially to ports of embarkation at Seattle and San Francisco and returning these men from the ports of embarkation to their homes. Mr. TAVENNER. Now, let us go back to an earlier period in your experience in Los Angeles. You have advised the committee that there was a period of time when you were a labor organizer at Parker Dam, and prior to your becoming employed by the American Can Co. During that period of time, when you were an organizer, did you become acquainted with a person by the name of Frank Carlson? Mr. HEACOCK. No, sir. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Counsel— Mr. HEACOCK. I don't recall that name, sir. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Counsel, was the witness an organizer for the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers? Mr. TAVENNER. He was organizer, according to his testimony, for a local which was affiliated with the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers, if I understood his testimony correctly. Mr. HEACOCK. Yes, sir. Mr. SCHERER. That is what he said. Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, sir. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of Jack Olson? Mr. HEACOCK. I don't recall the name, sir. Mr. TAVENNER. In the course of your work as an organizer, or otherwise, did you become acquainted with a person by the name of Roy McCoy-M-c-C-o-y? Mr. HEACOCK. No, sir; I did not, not in connection with this organization on the aqueduct. I later became acquainted with Mr. McCoy. Incidentally, I didn't recall the name to my mind, but the investigator showed me a photograph and I-I said I did recognize the photograph as one that I had met. Mr. TAVENNER. Where did you meet Mr. McCoy? Mr. HEACOCK. This was after my organizational activity at-along the aqueduct. In fact, people like Mr. McCoy were evidently attracted to me because of my organizational work. As I understood it, at the time Mr. McCoy was the-a member of the Young Communist League. Mr. TAVENNER. I will hand you at this point a photograph and ask you whether or not you can identify it as the person referred to by you as Roy McCoy. Mr. HEACOCK. Yes; I can. Apparently this is a later photograph, but it is certainly the same individual. Mr. TAVENNER. Now, what was the nature of your association with Mr. McCoy ? Mr. HEACOCK. Certain people that also worked at American Can Co. when I was there introduced me to Mr. McCoy in the course of social affairs and union affairs, and so on. Mr. TAVENNER. Did you have any association with him in any work other than union affairs? Mr. HEACOCK. I never engaged in any other activity. I met these people because they were members of the union and, of course, at that time in 1937 and 1938 there wasn't a question of loyalty or anything of that nature in my mind, because at that time the conditions were so different that it wasn't apparent to the average person that these people should be avoided. Mr. TAVENNER. You spoke of Mr. McCoy as having been a member of the Young Communist League. Mr. HEACOCK. I said that I assumed he was because he apparentlyapparently was; yes. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, what was the basis of your knowledge of his membership in the Young Communist League? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, his statements and his attempt to have me come to social functions, and so forth, which were attended by other people that-that freely admitted they were members of the YCL. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, did you attend any meeting of the Young Communist League with him or others of the group that you referred to? Mr. HEACOCK. I have met with members of these groups at their homes, and usually in connection with the union with which I was affiliated at the time-the Steel workers' Union-at the American Can Co. Mr. TAVENNER. Did you become acquainted with Mat Pelman? Mr. HEACOCK. Yes; I recognize that name. Mr. TAVENNER. Was he one of this same group to which you have referred? Mr. HEACOCK. Yes, sir; he was. Mr. TAVENNER. Did you know him as a member of the Young Communuist League or the Communist Party? · Mr. HEACOCK. I knew him as an official of the Young Communist League. Mr. TAVENNER. On what do you base your information? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, principally that he seemed to be giving information and directions to other YCL people. Mr. TAVENNER. Did you become acquainted with a person by the name of Lou Rosser-L-o-u R-o-s-s-e-r? Mr. HEACOCK. Yes, sir; I did. I couldn't recall the name until the investigator advised me that Mr. Rosser was a Negro, and then I remembered-readily recalled and tied the name and the man together. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, what was the nature of your acquaintanceship with him? Mr. HEACOCK. He appeared at certain social affiairs-what may be called house meetings-that sort of thing-as-and was known as a member of the Young Communist League. Mr. TAVENNER. Now, he was not a member of your union, was he? Mr. HEACOCK. No; he was not. Mr. TAVENNER. He was not employed by American Can Co., was he? Mr. HEACOCK. No. Mr. TAVENNER. Actually, he was the educational director of the Young Communist League, was he not? Mr. HEACOCK. I didn't know that, sir. Mr. TAVENNER. Were these meetings of the Young Communist League at which you said he appeared? Mr. HEACOCK. Principally a social affair. Now, there was a man in the same plant who would have me go out to a social affair, and there was Mr. Rosser, and certain of these others that you have mentioned. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, how did you know that Mr. Rosser was a member of the Young Communist League unless you, yourself, were a member of the group Mr. HEACOCK. Well, I didn't. Mr. TAVENNER. Or a member of the Young Communist League? Mr. HEACOCK. I didn't, but there were very many that I knew who were also non-Communists that went to these groups. In fact, they represented themselves as a youth group, or youth organization, rather than as an out-and-out Communist group, and in that way attracted certainly many outside of their own membership to their functions. Mr. ŤAVENNER. Were you acquainted with Margaret Campbell— C-a-m-p-b-e-1-1? Mr. HEACOCK. I don't recall the name, sir. Mr. TAVENNER. Ed Harris? Mr. HEACOCK. I don't recall that name, sir. Mr. TAVENNER. Were you acquainted with Virginia Kibre— K-i-b-r-e-the wife of Jeff Kibre? Mr. HEACOCK. I don't recall that name either, sir. Mr. TAVENNER. Jack Starr? Mr. HEACOCK. No, sir; I can't recall that. Mr. TAVENNER. Roy Spector? Mr. HEACOCK. Yes; I recall Roy Spector very well. Mr. HEACOCK. He was also employed at the American Can Co. and frequently-in fact, most often-was the person that would get me to go to these other functions. Mr. TAVENNER. Do you know whether he was an organizer for the local union in the steel workers' group? Mr. HEACOCK. I don't know that he was. He was active in union affairs. I can't recall whether he was an official or not. Mr. TAVENNER. Did you know him as a member of the Young Communist League? Mr. HEACOCK. Yes; I assumed that he was. Yes, sir. Mr. JACKSON. Upon what was your assumption based? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, he would take me to meetings at which there were other of these YCL'ers present, and he would admit to interest in this organization. Mr. WALTER. What took place at these meetings? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, principally, sir, Congressman Walter, they were mostly social-were educational-what they called educational material thrown in. Usually, you might have a social affair at somebody's home and there would be literature available on the table and-urging that you take it home-and also a lot of social activity with members of both sexes present; parties, dancing—that sort of thing. Mr. WALTER. Combining business with pleasure, I take it? Mr. WALTER. What was the business or what was the literature that was under discussion? The literature that was under discussion was Communist literature, wasn't it? Mr. HEACOCK. Yes, sir. Mr. WALTER. Do you remember any of the things that were discussed-any of the works; pamphlets? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, I recall that there was an effort or an attempt to present this as a broad youth group or organization that would like to function as, what they called, a mass organization; and there was discussions of purposes of unions and discussions of—— Mr. WALTER. Methods of infiltration into unions-how Communists could take over the particular unions functioning in that community? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, there was not that I can recall. There was more discussion of that in connection with your union activity. That is, if anything like that might come up as to stronger control over a union, why, it would come up in caucus meetings in connection with the unions, themselves. Mr. SCHERER. Stronger control- Mr. WALTER. What occurred at those caucus meetings? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, there was-usually it had to do with internal union affairs, such as who was going to be elected. In fact, I believe that the American Can Co.-why, they would agree to support, you know, a non-Communist president of the union, or something of that nature, or would discuss union affairs Mr. WALTER. Then Mr. HEACOCK. Organizational work. Mr. WALTER. When you learned that the company was going to endeavor to elect a non-Communist at these caucuses, you decided who would oppose that man, didn't you? Mr. HEACOCK. No, sir; at-at that particular place, the American Can Co., they were supporting a non-Communist. Mr. WALTER. A non-Communist? Mr. HEACOCK. Yes; as far as I knew, he was a non-Communist. Mr. WALTER. And then your group at the caucus selected somebody to oppose that candidate; isn't that correct? Mr. HEACOCK. No, sir; they were supporting that candidate. I am trying to-I would like to make it clear that this is just an informal group. I mean, I might go out after work and stop out at somebody's house and talk these union matters over, but I don't want to give the committee an impression that I didn't know that these people were YCL people. At that time, why, we just accepted that fact. Mr. JACKSON. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman? Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Heacock, on several occasions you have said-at least one occasion, as I recall that there were non-Communists also attending these social affairs at which the literature was displayed. How do you arrive at the conclusion that they were indeed nonCommunists? You told us how you know that some of the people were Communists. On what do you base your statement that others there were non-Communists? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, I've already said that I just assumed that certain people were YCL people and also others were not, because, for example, after work Mr. Spector might pick me up and say, "Well, I want to go over here and pick up this Mexican fellow here that hasn't been involved in union activity and see if he wants to come along and go to this affair," and the discussions were all on the level of trying to promote a-what they called a mass organization of themselves and others, which would be what we would know as nonCommunists. I am trying to help the committee by pointing out in 1937 or 1938 that they apparently believed that they should join with all other groups-sort of a united-front idea. Mr. SCHERER. Who should join with all other groups? Whom do you mean? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, their own membership. Mr. CLARDY. Communist membership? Mr. VELDE. Mr. Clardy. (Representative Francis E. Walter left the hearing room at this point.) Mr. CLARDY. How many members were in this outfit you called YCL? Mr. HEACOCK. I'm sure I don't know, Congressman Clardy. Mr. CLARDY. Well, you have told us that you knew roughly who were and who were not. So, you know the sum total. Now, on what basis can you divide it to help the committee get some idea how deep the infiltration was? Mr. HEACOCK. Well, I will say in the American Can Co. there were only two that indicated to me, as I recall it, that they were members of the YCL. Mr. CLARDY. Well, you must have had a pretty small social group if you only had two and had a party with both sexes present. Mr. HEACOCK. No, sir. Mr. CLARDY. Haven't you kind of forgotten-— Mr. CLARDY. What you said a moment ago? Mr. HEACOCK. No, sir, Mr. Clardy. I pointed out there were certain union functions, and then I differentiated them from these broad Mr. CLARDY. Well, it wasn't at the union Mr. HEACOCK. Social groups Mr. CLARDY. That the literature-the Communist literature-was distributed? Mr. HEACOCK. No, sir. Mr. CLARDY. All right; let's get to these meetings, then. How many people attended those meetings? Mr. VELDE. Now, you are referring to the meetings where Communist Party literature was distributed. Mr. CLARDY. As he has described it. Mr. HEACOCK. Oh, there might be from 7 to 15 people at a house party, or there might be a social affair thrown at which there was 25 or 30 people present. Mr. CLARDY. All right, now, how many meetings of that kind at which Communist literature was present and distributed did you attend? |