But I question the wisdom of inserting material of general circulation, which has no official foundation, into the record of the committee. Mr. VELDE. Well, I had intended-and I think the gentleman from Michigan intended-that it be introduced as an exhibit without going into the record.

Mr. CLARDY. Oh, yes; but the only reason I suggested it was because the witness, himself, brought it to my attention, to the committee's attention, for the first time and he seemed to attach some importance to it; and if, in any way, he conceives that it will help the committee to get the correct facts, I, for one, would like to have it.

Now, looking it over carefully, as I told Mr. Doyle, all I see is it is a reiteration of the very things upon which we have been questioning. I don't know anything about this. In fact, I didn't know it was in existence. I didn't know anything about the row he may have had with some others in his business, and I am not concerned with that.

I agree with you—the committee should not-but if he thinks there is some value to this in presenting his side of the controversy now before us, involving him, I, for one, will be willing to receive it, although I am inclined to agree with Mr. Jackson. If it is merely some spurious document circulated by a third party, maybe we ought not consider it.

Mr. SCHRERER. As long as the record shows it went into the record at the witness' request, I agree. It is derogatory to the witness and we shouldn't put it in unless he requests it be made part of his testi

mony.

Mr. CLARDY. That is right.

Mr. SCHERER. Now, if he requests it be put in the record, I think we should put it in the record; but the record should indicate that it gets into the record not by any affirmative action of this committee, but by a request on the part of the witness.

Mr. CLARDY. I think the record ought to show, Mr. Chairman, too, while a copy of this was given to counsel, counsel never called it to the attention of any member of the committee.

Until you produced it, yourself, witness, none of us up here had the slightest knowledge of it whatsoever, and it hasn't had anything to do with our questioning of you.

Mr. HEACOCK. I am confident, Mr. Clardy, that it hasn't.

I am aware that the committee here has been very fair to me. I'll say that.

Mr. CLARDY. We have been trying to be.

Mr. HEACOCK. The committee postponed this hearing at my request, so that it would get past the general industry hearing before the Senate.

Mr. CLARDY. Let me interrupt you 1 minute.

You have been good enough to agree we have been fair. Wouldn't you agree and wouldn't you state, on the basis of the testimony which has been taken in executive session, which has not been published to the public at all, and the other evidence that is in our hands that has been called to your attention, the committee has reasonable grounds to call you in and to ask you the questions we have?

Mr. HEACOCK. They certainly do. They certainly have.

I would like to point out, as additional facts bearing on your consideration here, the fact that something that was limited in scope has been built up in the last year and a half to an extremely tight case

too tight, from my point of view-and I have been so concerned about it that sometimes I can't even-can't even sleep; but I would like to point out to you that when this was circulated-and the date is March 4, 1952, it was circulated prior to that

Mr. VELDE. I believe, Mr. Heacock, we had better go ahead with the questioning relative to the facts of

Mr. DOYLE. May I ask a question?

Mr. VELDE. Just a minute; relative to the facts of subversion. The facts will be considered by the committee later in executive session that you have to submit.

Mr. DOYLE. Mr. Chairman, I want to urge

Mr. VELDE. Yes.

Mr. DOYLE. I think I should be privileged to ask a question.

This is the first time I have seen this photostat, and it seems to me one part of the photostat very definitely relates to whether or not this man was a member of the Communist Party.

Mr. VELDE. Well, now, Mr. Doyle, that is exactly what we have been questioning him on-

Mr. DOYLE. I notice that

Mr. VELDE. For at least an hour and a half now.

Now, if your questions relate to membership in the Communist Party, the YCL, or any other subversive activities, certainly I will allow the distinguished gentleman

Mr. DOYLE. Well, my question

Mr. VELDE. From California to ask those questions.

Mr. DOYLE. My questions are going to lead to this premise: That this witness now claims that this record should go in as part of his testimony. In view of the fact he has been questioned on the very premises that are set forth in this photostat, according to the agreement of you gentlemen who have had time to read it all, I insist that this witness should have the right to put this photostat in the testimony as part of his statement.

Mr. SCHERER. That is what we agreed on.

Mr. VELDE. Now, Mr. Doyle

Mr. SCHERER. That was my suggestion.

Mr. DOYLE. If that is the agreement and that is understood, all right, because this apparently identifiies the source at least part of the source-on which we are basing our questions.

Mr. JACKSON. No.

Mr. HEACOCk. No.

Mr. JACKSON. I object to that, and I should like to have the record show that the investigation by this committee today is based upon identification received in committee sessions under oath which places the witness in closed meetings of the Communist Party or of the YCL. Mr. DOYLE. Well, this

Mr. JACKSON. I had no previous knowledge of that document.
Mr. DOYLE. All right.

Mr. VELDE. Certainly the gentleman from California

Mr. CLARDY. Mr. Chairman, I think

Mr. VELDE. Who has always pointed out the committee's area of investigation

Mr. CLARDY. Mr. Doyle and Mr. Jackson are the ones who heard it. Mr. VELDE. Should agree this extraneous information that has been circulated around has nothing to do with the hearings, with these

hearings, or with the questions that have been put by counsel or the members of the committee.

Mr. TAVENNER. And, Mr. Chairman, I should say with the investigation that has been made.

Mr. HEACOCK. I have been.

Mr. TAVENNER. There has not been a single question which I have asked which has been based on that document.

Mr. HEACOCK. I can agree on that wholeheartedly.

Mr. CLARDY. May I ask the witness a question?.

Mr. HEACOCK. I agree

Mr. SCHERER. Wait a minute. I want to hear this.
What was that?

Mr. HEACOCK. I agree with that wholeheartedly.

I merely want to point out-I just want to get into this recordthat certain interested parties have been pushing this matter for a year and a half, and I am sure the committee is not aware of it.

The committee has been fair to me, and I expect to continue to get a fair hearing out of this, but

Mr. SCHERER. Before you go on, let me ask you one question: Are you requesting this correspondence, of which we have photostatic copies, be placed in the record?

Mr. HEACOCK. Yes.

Mr. SCHERER. All right.

Mr. VELDE. Without objection, it is so ordered.

(The document referred to was received in evidence as Heacock exhibit No. 1.)

HEACOCK EXHIBIT No. 1

U. S. AIRCOACH

THE STARLIGHT FLIGHT

Executive Offices: Room 1010, Chester Wliliams Bldg., 215 W. Fifth St., Los Angeles 13, Calif.

Mr. AMOS HEATHCOX [sic.]

Air Coach Transport Association,

1404 New York Avenue NW., Washington 5, D. C.

MARCH 7, 1952.

DEAR AMOS: Today I received a letter from John Mark, which I believe you should have investigated. I am enclosing a copy of this letter and the list he included. His letter was written in long hand, in his own writing.

Amos, I hope you can get to the bottom of this as I believe it is a very serious charge for someone like Mark to be making.

I know the boys in the Association are behind you.

Please let me hear from you as to what I might be able to do out here to help you in this matter.

DEAR FRITZ: Very sorry not to have seen you while you were in Washington. I had several things to discuss with you of vital importance. Most important was the present crisis concerning a serious question about the history of one of

your members of ACTA. On a separate sheet I will give you some names and questions which you can work on and get the answers.

This situation is going to affect the entire industry, and will be a blow hard to recover from if you don't do something about it, and do it quick.

We are planning some tours for this summer. One of them is a trip to Hawaii. If you are still running out there. I would like to know your rates, schedule, commission, etc. I would also like an agency agreement with your company, as I am sure we can give you business from here to the coast. Also from other locations in the East.

If you are planning a trip east in the near future, and I hope you are, I would like to discuss the immediate formation of a new group to hop right into the military when this thing blows. This among other things.

Let me hear from you by return mail. Best regards.

Sincerely,

[Duplicate copy]

JOHN MARK.

CONFIDENTIAL

Why was Amos Evens Heacock discharged from Lockheed Aircraft Sept. 30-40 (Social Security #554-14-3299) ?

Who was John Hayden (an alias) whose card number on Communist Party Book was 56454?

Did this man join the Downdown Youth Unit of the Communist Party in 1938? Was he acquainted with one Roy Spector, said to be the same as Frank Spector now on trial in Los Angeles for Communist Activities?

Was he acquainted with the following, one of whom lived at 1307 West 40th St., Los Angeles, in 1940: a Clifford Westly Stiess, b - John Raymond Powell,

Did the landlady of the one, above, attend any Communist Party meetings with any or all of the above, and was John Hayden #56454 (alias) in this group? Did Amos Evens Heacock reside at 115 E. 70th St., Los Angeles, California, in 1936?

Did he join the Communist Party at that time?

Consult your State Subversive Activities Committee.

Mr. CLARDY. Mr. Doyle, may I suggest

Mr. SCHERER. Just so we can't be accused of circulating

Mr. CLARDY. May I address a remark to my brother committee member?

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Clardy.

Mr. CLARDY. Mr. Doyle, I think I just discovered a few moments ago that you and Mr. Jackson were the members of the subcommittee that remained behind in Los Angeles and elicited the testimony upon which the interrogation was based before you came in.

Mr. DOYLE. Well, this gentlemen is before this committee without the benefit of legal counsel.

Mr. CLARDY. That is

Mr. DOYLE. And I think it is fundamental, therefore, that we bend over backward to make sure he is not losing any of his rights; and unless he is a lawyer

Mr. HEACOCK. Well, I

Mr. DOYLE. The other thing is this: In that photostat I notice some of those questions date way back to 1936 and 1937

Mr. CLARDY. That is right.

Mr. DOYLE. And, in my book, that is a long, long way back

Mr. SCHERER. Mr. Doyle, I was concerned about that, too, untilMr. DOYLE. To admit testimony about a man before us without counsel.

Mr. SCHERER. Mr. Chairman, I was saying I was concerned about that, too, until I heard some of the sworn testimony that was taken out in Los Angeles, I think, before you and―

Mr. CLARDY. Mr. Doyle, some of them have been Communists longer than that.

Mr. DOYLE. I know.

Mr. VELDE. Let us proceed in regular order, and

Mr. JACKSON. I think the record should show again that the witness was advised of his right to counsel and stated he did not desire counsel at the opening of the hearing, so that his constitutional rights were fully observed in every respect by the committee.

Mr. DOYLE. I know, Committee Member Jackson, but that doesn't relieve us from the fact he is here without counsel.

Mr. CLARDY. We have bent over pretty far backward.

Mr. VELDE. Regular order.

Proceed, Mr. Counsel.

Mr. DOYLE. I hope we always do.

Mr. HEACOCK. May I read one sentence of this to point out the reason I wanted it in the record?

Mr. VELDE. The Chair will allow you to do it, although it is in the record at the present time.

Mr. HEACOCK. This gentleman is writing to a member of the association I represent-I represented at that time, and he is circularizing this information. The one sentence is:

I would like to discuss the immediate formation of a new group to hop right into the military when this thing blows.

Now, the gentleman is an interested party, and some of these things have come up, I think-some of the testimony, I believe-Mr. Ros

When was his testimony taken, could you tell me?

Mr. TAVENNER. April 7, 1953.

Mr. HEACOCK. In other words, his testimony was taken since I spoke to the committee investigator and indicated that I challenged the statement of Mr. Rosser.

Mr. SCHERER. Obviously some of the material contained in the correspondence which you handed us is libelous insofar as you are concerned. Have you sued this man for libel?

Mr. HEACOCK. No, sir.

Mr. VELDE. I can see no further use in going into this extraneous matter. It isn't a matter that is in the committee's jurisdiction as far as I can see.

Mr. HEACOCK. Mr. Velde

Mr. VELDE. So, I would ask the counsel proceed with any further questions he may have to ask in regular order.

Mr. TAVENNER. You stated that you were employed by Lockheed Aircraft for a period of 3 weeks. What was the reason for the termination of your employment with Lockheed?

Mr. HEACOCK. I was-my employment was terminated at Lockheed because they said these reports of Communist associations

Mr. TAVENNER. And those reports were correct; weren't they? Mr. HEACOCK. Yes; I had associated with these people that I have talked to you about.