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then report these activities back to Roy Hudson, district organizer of the Communist Party at that time, and Alex Stabor's Communist boss.

Mr. ARENs. Wasn't all this in the uplift of the members of the UE to get them higher pay and shorter hours?

Mr. CVETIC. This was all in the interest of the Communist plot to overthrow the Government of the United States, and then they would do with the workers like they are doing in Eastern Germany. I would like the Erie workers to pay attention to what is happening in Eastern Germany under the same Communist Party of what Alex Stabor is a member of.

Incidentally, it is the same Communist Party that shot our boys down in Korea, shot them in the back. I would like the Erie workers to pay a note to this, that Alex Stabor is a member of the same party that shot down in cold blood 6,000 American boys in Korea. So that was Alex Stabor's job in J. and L. to gather information for the Communist headquarters.

Roy Hudson and Dave Grant, the city secretary. I sat in these meetings almost daily. Alex Stabor would come in and report on an average of once or twice a week. And then this information would be relayed to Soviet agents here who were operating out of the United States, the Czechoslovak Embassy and consulate and the Polish Embassy and consulate. And he said he never carried on espionage.

From then, Alex Stabor-Yes, they set up separate cells, even, in the various sections of the J. and L. plant in South Side. He says he knows nothing about the plants. But we broke down the plants in the Communist Party office, and I think Comrade Stabor will remember this, into the rolling mill, into the various departments of the J. and L and then he would be instructed how many Communists to try to get into the various sections of the J. and L. plant.

Later Alex Stabor was assigned to the electrical commission of the Communist Party, and there he worked under Steve Nelson, Moscowtrained Soviet agent, to whom he reported regularly. I was surprised when the General Electric hired this Communist agent, because 312 years ago I named him as a Communist under oath before the House Un-American Activities. As far as him making a big spiel here about not testifying on the grounds of the first and

fifth amendments, why, I sat in many meetings with Alex Stabor where we would get our orders, "Well, if you are subpenaed by these committees, don't tell that witch-hunting committee anything. You are not to answer any questions on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments because it might incriminate you."

We used that section. And then, furthermore, we got out a lot of propaganda in the name of many Communist-front organizations in which

Alex Stabor participated to try to denounce the Communist exposé which the House Un-American Activities Committee and the Senate Internal Security Committee is conducting. For this reason, because the Communist Party cannot stand exposure. They know if the workers catch on to their duplicity and treachery, they are not going to have a chance to overthrow this Government. I agree with you, if he had any red blood, or if they had any guts, they would stand up and say they are Communists.

Mr. ARENS. Thank you very much, Mr. Cvetic.
Senator BUTLER. Any further questions of Mr. Stabor?

You are excused, Mr. Stabor.
Mr. Willard Bliss.

Will you stand up, Mr. Bliss? In the presence of Almighty God, do you solemnly promise and declare that the testimony you shall give this subcommittee of the Internal Security Committee of the United States Senate shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Mr. BLISS. I do.

TESTIMONY OF WILLARD BLISS, ERIE, PA., ACCOMPANIED BY

DAVID SCRIBNER, NEW YORK, N. Y. Mr. ARENS. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation.

Mr. Bliss. Willard Bliss, 3709 Main Street, Erie, Pa. Newspaper editor.

Mr. ARENS. What do you edit, what paper ?
Mr. BLISS. The Union News.
Mr. ARENS. Of what organization!

Mr. Bliss. Published by United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America, Local 506.

Mr. ARENS. How long have you held that position? Mr. Bliss. Since approximately the middle of 1949, or thereabouts. Mr. ARENS. I didn't get that date--19 what? Mr. Bliss. To the best of my recollection, approximately the middle of 1949.

Mr. ARENS. And what was your occupation prior to that time, prior to 1949 ?

Mr. Bliss. Educational director of the Erie Industrial Council of the Congress for Industrial Organizations.

Mr. ARENS. And where were you located there? Mr. BLISS. Erie, Pa. Mr. ARENS. What was the period of time covered there? Mr. Bliss. From approximately 1948, some time in the spring of 1948 until, say, the spring of 1949.

Mr. ARENS. Mr. Bliss, I think it would probably be a little easier for both of us to understand the sequence of your employment activity if, rather than go backward, as we are starting now Mr. Bliss. I would rather you ask me specific questions. Mr. ARENS. If we could

go

forward.
From 1918 to 1932 you were located where?
Mr. Bliss. 1918 to 1932? I was a seaman.
Mr. ARENS. You were a radio telegrapher, weren't you?

Mr. Bliss. Don't forget, I was also a seaman and a radio telegrapher. I came up from the ranks.

Mr. ARENS. Then, beginning about 1932 what was your occupation? Mr. Bliss. 1932 ?

Mr. ARENS. 1932 or 1933. Have you ever had any connection, Mr. Bliss, with ARTA?

Mr. Bliss. Just a moment. I will give you the answer. I am not hesitating. I simply want to refresh my recollection of the past. You will have to wait for that business on me. I will tell you when I get ready to tell you.

In 1932 or thereabouts, I was the national secretary-treasurer of the American Radio Telegraphers Association.

Mr. ARENS. Did that association ever merge to go into the ARTA the American Communications

Mr. Bliss. Rather, the history is the other way around, that it gave birth to the American Communications Association which later affiliated with the Committee for Industrial Organizations, at that time.

Mr. ARENS. And then it was subsequently expelled from CIO. Is that correct, the ACA ?

Mr. Bliss. That I don't know.
Mr. ARENS. Because it was a Communist organization?
Mr. Bliss. That I don't know.
Mr. ARENS. Do you know Joe Selly?
Mr. Bliss. Yes, I know Joe Selly.
Mr. ARENS. Kehoe?
Mr. Bliss. Joseph Kehoe?
Mr. ARENS. Yes.
Mr. Bliss. Yes, I know Joseph Kehoe.
Mr. ARENs. They are the present officers of ACA, are they not?
Mr. Bliss. That is hearsay. I don't know.
Mr. ARENS. Have you ever been arrested?
Mr. Bliss. Yes.

Mr. ARENS. You were arrested in 1937, down in New York, weren't you?

Mr. Bliss. Yes. Mr. ARENs. Have you ever applied for a visa to a foreign country? Mr. Bliss. Continue your questioning, what happened to the arrest ? Mr. ARENS. Well, you tell me. Mr. Bliss. Didn't the State nol-pros it on the State's own motion? They did. That is the record.

Mr. ARENS. Is that so. You want to be so frank with us now and give us all the truth, I am sure. Are you a member of the Communist Party!

Mr. Bliss. I herewith-
Senator BUTLER. Let the record show that he is hesitating.

Mr. Bliss. Invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself, as well as the first amendment, granting me the right of free speech, press, assembly, and religion, and regardless of whether the Senator recognizes it or not, I do.

Senator BUTLER. We have heard all of that, and we recognize the fifth amendment.

Mr. Bliss. You recognize the first as well.
Senator BUTLER. We do not.
Mr. ARENS. You have been quite an orator in your time, haven't
Mr. Bliss. I have on occasion made a speech.

Mr. ARENS. You made a speech here in which you said, "I wouldn't lift a finger to defend this country against the Japs or anyone else. I wouldn't be any worse off under the Japs than I am under this present rotten social-economic system.” Is that one of your orations? Mr. BLISs. At the present moment, to the best of my recollection,

But I am now invoking the fifth amendment so you don't framé me on that

you?

no.

Mr. ARENs. You don't have any recollection of making that statement?

Mr. Bliss. To the best of my present recollection, no, no. But I say, I invoke the fifth amendment, you know.

Mr. ARENS. When were you last in China ?

Mr. Bliss. In China ? Do you want me to take you on a Cook's tour of the world, of places I have been? Is that what you are leading up to?

Senator BUTLER. You are going to answer these questions, and we don't want any foolishness out of you.

Mr. Bliss. I am attempting to give you the full information.

Senator BUTLER. We don't want any of this Cook's tour. This is a serious session of the committee of the Senate of the United States and you will respect it.

Mr. Bliss. I do, sir.
Senator BUTLER. All right. Be sure that you do.
Mr. Bliss. I do, sir.
Mr. ARENS. When were you last in China ?
Mr. Bliss. Gentlemen, I don't recall.
Mr. ARENS. Were you in China in 1929 ?

Mr. Bliss. No; I doubt that. I made a voyage to China earlier than that, to the best of my recollection at the moment. Not in 1929.

Mr. ARENS. What is your best recollection on that?

Mr. Bliss. I couldn't tell you. It was in the early twenties, I believe.

Mr. ARENS. Do you have a distinct recollection of your last trip there? Mr. Bliss. Not at this moment, no. I mean,

that is Mr. ARENS. How long were you in China when you were last there? Mr. Bliss. As long as the ship was in port. Mr. ARENS. Well, was that a day, an hour, a week?

Mr. Bliss. A few days. I don't even recollect the length of the stay.

Mr. ARENS. Where was it in China, what port?
Mr. Bliss. Shanghai and Hong Kong.
Mr. ARENS. And what did you do while you were there?
Mr. Bliss. The customary things that most sailors do.

Mr. ARENS. Was meeting General Blucher, a Soviet intelligence agent, part of what most sailors do?

Mr. Bliss. To the best of my recollection, I never met the gentleman, but I plead the fifth amendment so as not to be framed on that.

Senator BUTLER. We are not taking any of that. Did you know or didn't you know him?

Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment.
Senator BUTLER. If you din't know him, say so.
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment.
Senator BUTLER. Read the record.
(The reporter read from his notes as requested.)

Senator BUTLER. Let's reframe that question. On the occasion referred to in the testimony, did you meet General Blucher?

Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. ARENS. Did you meet Michael Borodin !
Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment privilege.

Mr. ARENS. Were you associated with Earl Browder while Browder was in China ?

Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment privilege.

Mr. ARENs. I think it would be well if we would get back to this word framed, when you have been suggesting here that this committee is framing you. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment privilege not to testify against myself.

Mr. ÅRENS. Am I framing you when I suggest that you were a member of the Communist Party!

Mr. Bliss. By innuendo.
I stand on the fifth amendment.

Mr. ARENS. By innuendo I am framing you if I suggest you are a member of the Communist Party ? Mr. Chairman, the witness has opened the door on this. He has waived his constiutional rights under the fifth amendment. You explain to this committee, to the listeners and to the world, what you mean by innuendo I am framing you.

Mr. BLISS. I stand on the fifth amendment.
Senator BUTLER. I direct that you answer the question.

Mr. Bliss. With all due respect I stand on the fifth amendment privilege not to testify against myself.

Mr. ÅRENS. Do you feel if you gave a truthful answer to my suggestion that you were a member of the Communist Party, that that information which you would give this committee could be used against

you in a criminal proceeding? Mr. BLISS. I stand on the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself. Senator BUTLER. What is the circulation of your paper? Mr. Bliss. Approximately 9,000 at the moment.

Mr. ARENS. You were a lecturer at the Workers School in New York at one time, weren't you?

Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege.

Mr. ARENS. In other words, if you had not been a teacher in the Workers School, a lecturer in the Workers School in New York, you would not be entitled to invoke the fifth amendment, would you?

Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Senator BUTLER. What is the Workers School
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. ARENS. Who is Roy Pyle?
Mr. Bliss. Will you describe him? Identify him for me.
Mr. ARENS. Do you know a man by the name of Roy Pyle?
Mr. Bliss. Vaguely. Bring it out.
Mr. ARENS. How did you happen to know him?

Mr. Bliss. If it is the one I am thinking of, he was a rank and file member of the American Radio Telegraphers Association.

Mr. ARENS. Was he a Communist?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. ARENS. Who is Sam Darcey?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege.

Mr. ARENs. In other words, do you feel honestly in your heart that if you told us who is Sam Darcey and what you know about Sam

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