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Senator DONNELL. Congressman, I won't take your time if you don't locate it readily.

Mr. RANKIN. It is in this speech.

Senator IVES. I will say this: If such a charge has been leveled, it is a very serious charge, and I want to know about it.

Mr. RANKIN. I want to find it, because there are only three States that passed this law-New York, Massachusetts, and New Jersey. Senator IVES. With Connecticut and Indiana added.

Mr. RANKIN. I don't think so. I want to particularly call your attention to the end of the speech that I made on the so-called FEPC in Washington. One member from one of those States-I was under the impression it was New York, but it might have been Massachu

setts

Senator SMITH. I find what you quoted right on the first page, the second column:

A man from New York said to me this morning, "You know this measure is being operated in New York simply by failure to operate it."

Mr. RANKIN. That is right.

Senator DONNELL. Would he have any objection to the use of his name, Congressman?

Mr. RANKIN. I didn't give his name then. He didn't authorize me to do it, and I won't give it now.

Senator DONNELL. We are not asking you to violate any confidence, Congressman.

Mr. RANKIN. But I will ask you to do this. I get the same reaction from other Members

Senator DONNELL. Other Members from New York?

Mr. RANKIN. Other Members from New York; and especially the Republican Members from New York.

Now, I told you awhile ago that the Negro depends for his happiness, his prosperity, and his protection on the peaceful relationship with the people among whom he lives. These agitators who are constantly bombarding for this bill, constantly bombarding us through PM and the Communist Daily Worker, have also gone down and started up race trouble all over the South. With what result? With the result that they have done the Negroes more injury than they could have done in any other way.

If this bill is passed-you can talk about enforcing it in the Southern States-but if this bill is passed you will simply intensify the race trouble that these agitators are stirring up down there, and that is now being rapidly transported to the Northern States.

I want to say to you, Senators, that with all deference to you gentlemen from the North, you are going to have a great deal more race trouble in the future than we are, and this legislation will intensify it.

Senator ELLENDER. Or than we have had in the past.

Mr. RANKIN. Or than we have had in the past. Let race trouble happen at home and what we do is rush to their defense and protect them.

Look at the riot in Detroit 2 or 3 years ago. They didn't kill 30 Negroes in that riot. They killed over 700.

A Negro from my county operated a band up there, I believe at Saginaw. Of all the natural musicians in the world the Negro leads

them all. This Negro had a band with 17 members in it. They were playing on Belle Isle the day that riot started. That riot was kicked up by the Communists, and when the whites got started they killed Negroes so fast that this Negro saw he was in danger and took his band and started home. He lived up-State, at Saginaw, I think. They got in a bus and when it pulled up in front of the hotel in Detroit the mob raided the bus and killed every single one of them. That Negro's father is a tenant farmer in my county now. That could not have happened at home; and yet they have with all this agitation attempted to start race trouble between the whites. and blacks in the South.

Everyone with any sense at all knows those regulations were not written for the protection of the Negro. But you can take a Communist coming in here, such as we have exposed and are exposing now, and they can creep into a key position. The first thing you know we are likely to have a war. We don't know what will happen. I don't believe the decent American people will ever submit to communism. We know they have spies all over the country, just like the souvenir hunters who stole this technical data on the atomic bomb. That sounds puerile to me.

Do you want a spy at the elbow of every man who operates a business in America in case trouble starts? Under this bill here you would have the same trouble you had under the old FEPC.

Read the names and see who they are, who they put in charge of it, and who they put in charge of it in the States of Louisiana, New York, and Mississippi.

No, sir; you are playing with dynamite that will do this country more harm than good and do the Negroes more harm than anything else that could happen to them.

There are only four possible solutions of the race question: Deportation, extermination, amalgation, and segregation.

That question has been debated ever since I have been in Congress. Deportation is out of the question. Extermination is too horrible to contemplate. Amalgamation is not going to happen, and the better element of the Negroes don't want it to happen. The only way they have ever got along with the white people over a long stretch of time has been in the Southern States through the segregation that we now

have.

The Governor didn't understand one of the questions asked awhile ago, asking about the educational institutions. The Negroes of my town today go to school in better schoolhouses than I went to school in when I was a boy. We have a Negro university, Alcorn College, for their education. We have Negro high schools all over the State and we give them as good facilities as our financial ability will permit, and we get along with them and have less trouble than any other place I know of, and to pass a bill of this kind with its far reaching implications, in my opinion will not only stir trouble there but

Senator SMITH. I want to get this straightened out, Congressman. Does your State spend the same amount of money per child on colored as on the whites in the educational field?

Mr. RANKIN. I don't think so. I am not familiar with that.

Senator SMITH. I am so eager to see the same opportunity given and I would like to ask if you would agree with me that everyone in this

country is entitled to the same opportunity to develop according to their opportunities. What do you suggest is the way to bring that about?

Mr. RANKIN. Senator, I will tell you what I would rather do. I would rather risk the people of my State who have this proposition to deal with, who know the Negro's weaknesses expressed by Abe Lincoln here, who know his shortcomings.

You send a Negro to the penitentiary for a crime that we would probably give him a fine of $10 for. We know his weaknesses and we know you have got to allow for them. We have taken care of him in the very best way that we know how and no State in this Union would do better than Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas, and Virginia, and the other Southern States.

We have as one of our citizens a former Republican Governor of Nebraska. We elected him to the legislature on a Democratic ticket. Of course, we would probably elect you to the legislature on a Democratic ticket.

Senator IVES. Do you think I could get elected there?

Mr. RANKIN. On the Democratic ticket; yes, if you would keep quiet. You couldn't do it agitating a thing like this.

But we have had men to come there from all over the country and we don't get this complaint from people who know. We get it from the agitators who don't give a tinker's dam about the Negro, and I am not saying that with reference to any of you Senators, sir.

We get this criticism as a rule from people who are down there to stir up trouble.

Let me show you what happened the other day. There was a drunken Negro got on a bus in South Carolina-I will use the other fellow's State first-and raised so much sand the bus driver couldn't do anything with him and the passengers were all afraid of him. The bus driver stopped at a little town and asked for the police. The chief of police came and couldn't quiet him, so he arrested him and started to jail with him. The Negro tried to take his club away from him, and the policeman hit him over the head with it and it happened to blind him.

PM and the other Communst newspapers wrote all kinds of lies about what happened. Orson Welles took him to California and put on a radio show and got the administration so excited that they indicted this policeman in the Federal court, which they had no right to do, and the jury was out less than 1 minute and turned him loose. Yet they smeared the State of South Carolina from one end of the country to the other.

The quietest place in Mississippi I know of is a place called Magee where our tuberculosis sanitorium is located, where the patients are given the rest cure or treatment. A Negro who lived there got to shooting at people passing along the highway. The officers went to see about it and he shot them. Then the officers surrounded the place. This Negro ran out the back door and down through the swamp and it was published all over the country that they were trying to lynch a Negro down in Mississippi. Not a word of truth in it. They found this Negro and the others who were in the house with him had several Army guns, and so far the Department of Justice has not told my Governor, who just testified, where those guns came from.

The same thing or almost the same thing happened at Athens, Ala., and Columbia, Tenn. That is the Communist technique.

One reason I keep harping on the Communist activities is because I am on the Committee on Un-American Activities and I know one of the main programs of the Communists is to stir up race trouble in the Southern States. They have a map showing that they propose to make the Southern States into a Negro Soviet. We have their map on file.

This agitation to stir up race trouble is simply doing infinitely more harm than good.

The businessmen of New York, the businessmen of Missouri, the businessmen of Louisiana, and the businessmen of Mississippi give employment as best they can to the people who live among them and for us to come here and set up a gestapo of this kind with the unlimited powers which the Senator from Missouri has pointed out, would be, in my opinion, one of the most dangerous steps we could possibly take. I say that with all deference to the Senator from New York.

I think you are going in the wrong direction and I hope the bill will be rejected, and I am sure it will be when it reaches the floor of the House.

Now, I shall be glad to answer any questions.

Senator DONNELL. Are there any other questions, gentlemen? (No response.)

Senator DONNELL. Congressman Rankin, we are thankful for your views and thank you for coming here.

Is Mr. Dossett here?

Senator ELLENDER. Mr. Chairman, yesterday afternoon Mr. Dossett called on me and stated that he had to return to Tennessee and that he had left a statement with the next witness, Dr. Hutcheson, and Dr. Hutcheson would present it to the committee for incorporation in the record.

Senator DONNELL. Dr. Hutcheson, will you step forward, please? STATEMENT OF DR. R. H. HUTCHESON, STATE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH, NASHVILLE, TENN.

Senator DONNELL. Doctor, before you start your testimony I am going to tell you this: Under the law this committee has no power to sit while the Senate is in session. Consequently, promptly at 12 o'clock noon when the Senate goes in session this committee will be in recess for a short time. I should have said it has no power to sit unless permission is given. I do not want you to be frightened when you suddenly find that the committee is in recess. Doctor, will you please state your name?

Dr. HUTCHESON. R. H. Hutcheson.

Senator DONNELL. Doctor, where do you live?
Dr. HUTCHESON. I live in Franklin, Tenn.

Senator DONNELL. What is your profession?

Dr. HUTCHESON. I am a doctor of medicine and at present am engaged in the public-health field as commissioner of the State Department of Public Health of Tennessee. As such, I am a member of the Governor's cabinet.

Senator DONNELL. Doctor, I will ask you some questions about yourself a little later. I understand that you are presenting the statement filed by Mr. Burgin E. Dossett, commissioner of education of the State of Tennessee.

Dr. HUTCHESON. I have handed the statement to the reporter and would like to have it made, if it is permissible, a part of the record. Senator DONNELL. Before it is filed I will ask you to state briefly what you know of the background of Mr. Dossett himself and what his qualifications are.

Dr. HUTCHESON. Mr. Dossett is in the field of education. Prior to coming to Nashville-he is living in Nashville now-he lived in Tennesssee not far from Knoxville. I can't recall the name of the county right now. He is commissioner of education of the Department of Education of the State of Tennessee.

Senator DONNELL. Appointed by the Governor?

Dr. HUTCHESON. Appointed by the Governor and a member of the Governor's cabinet. He is chairman of the board of education and, as such, of course, has charge of all the educational facilities in the State.

Senator DONNELL. Very well. The statement will be received. I observe attached to the copy of his statement what appears to be a table and possibly some other exhibits. I assume you are filing the table also to go into the record?

Dr. HUTCHESON. That is correct, sir.

Senator DONNELL. Very well. The statement and table are received for the record.

(Mr. Dossett's brief is as follows:)

BRIEF ON EDUCATIONAL PROVISIONS AND OPPORTUNITIES IN TENNESSEE BY BURGIN E. DOSSETT, COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION, STATE OF TENNESSEE

As a result of the statesmanship of Gov. Jim McCord and the Seventy-fifth General Assembly, Tennessee is greatly increasing its effort to provide expanded opportunities for all phases of the educational program and for all citizens of the State. The State appropriation for the regular elementary and high school program was increased from $13,567,270 in 1946-47 to $25,627,932 in 1947-48 and the appropriation for vocational education was increased from $476,000 to $1,000,000. A similar increase was made in the appropriation for higher education. In 1946-47 the amount of $2,871,003 was appropriated and the amount of $4,773,021 has been provided for the year 1947-48.

The State program of public education in Tennessee makes no distinction between whites and Negroes in providing educational opportunities.

A. GENERAL SCHOOL PROGRAM

1. According to the 1940 census 82.5 percent of the population in Tennessee was white and 17.4 percent Negro. The educational census report for 1946 revealed that of the population 6 to 18 years of age 84.6 percent was white and 15.4 percent Negro. In 1944-45, 84.6 percent of the total elementary and high school teaching positions was white and 15.4 was Negro.

2. In every county, city, and special school district in the entire State white teachers and Negro teachers in grades 1 to 12 are on the same uniform State salary schedule. (See attached State salary schedule.) Whether the teacher is Negro or white his salary under the single uniform State salary schedule is determined entirely upon the number of years of high school and college training he has had and the number of years of educational experience. In 1945-46 the average monthly salary for women teachers in the county schools was: White women, $114.95; Negro women, $120.53.

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