as a rule in assuming the responsibility at the pay that we are able to give him, and the pay is the same whether he is white or colored. We have approximately 3,000 white physicians in Tennessee, and I called the secretary of the Volunteer State Medical Association just before coming up here, and he told me that he had 185 Negro physicians in his association. Out of 115 physicians, 10 are colored and 105 are white. That is a good percentage of the Negro as compared to the white physicians in Tennessee. Of nurses, we have a total of 259; 40 are colored, and 219 are white. Of nurses' aides we have a total of 17; 5 colored and 12 white. Of dentists we have a total of eight, of whom one is colored and seven are white. Job descriptions, class specifications, and compensation are the same regardless of color. The over-all percentage of colored personnel employed is approximately 10 percent. It is my feeling that those in favor of S. 984 possibly are going to feel that my attitude being what it is, then I should be for the bill. Well, I can't honestly say that I am. My reasons are these: I feel that those who favor this bill actually do not know what the situation is, and I think they know very little about mass psychology, particularly of the white and colored people living in the South. I think I have some understanding of it; and slowly, with the aid of a large number of interested southern friends, but largely by and through the efforts of their own leaders, Negro leaders, progress is being made. This progress will continue unless their less-well-informed white well-wishers attempt to force the issue and by doing so negate gains that have been made. Since I am permitted to say this, I might say that I listened to Mr. Rankin. I have a feeling that he got pretty close to some of the real reasons back of why we down there object to this bill, and I have a feeling, too, that he knows what he is talking about. But, further, I have a feeling that he speaks so emphatically on it that possibly people don't pay as much attention to him as they should. I never heard him before, and I never saw him before. I have seen much of what he has said in the newspapers, of course. To understand the soundness of the reasons I have given, one must understand the reasoning of the people in what is called the North. What we are actually talking about is the United States, or that part of it that has in the past had very few Negroes in residence, and we must also examine the attitude of those of us in the so-called south section, where a great many of us have lived, and it is my feeling that this attitude is as different and as far apart as the North Pole is from the South Pole. Contrary to general' opinion, I think that we in what I describe as the South have a very much fonder feeling for the Negro than is generally thought. I know I do, and I know my entire family does. I know pretty much the area of west Tennessee, where most of the Negroes live, and I know it is true there, and the reason we do like them is because we know them. But we also know the Negro's limitations; and as a race he does have them, and he has them as an individual. We know that some of them have done outstanding work, and we appreciate what they have done and we encourage the Negro in doing more. But knowing his limitations, we know that collectively he needs time to raise his race intelligence level up to that-as low as it is of his white cousins. And some of my white friends may criticize me for it, but I say the average is not too high. In the North there has been too much talk of the equality of opportunity, speaking of the race as a whole, with very little regard to the individual; and if I were permitted to do it I could tell you a story of a very successful farmer who lived on our place in west Tennessee. He decided sometime along about 1923, I think it was, that he was going to Detroit, and he did go there, and he did exceedingly well until the depression got started. And when the depression got started he came back immediately, and he told me that he was very happy there as long as things were going all right; but when things got tight they called him "Mister" and let him starve, and he came back down there to get something to eat. The statement is made in the bill that present conditions foment unrest of a minority group. I agree that there has been some unrest, and I agree that present conditions are responsible, but it is not a practice of discriminating in employment against properly qualified persons but instead agitation designed to create unrest, such as Mr. Rankin described awhile ago. Speaking only for myself personally, and as one with some knowledge of biology, there is no such thing as two people being equal in all respects. While I do have the utmost respect for all statements made in our Constitution, there is no such thing as two people, white or colored, or white and colored, who are equal, and there never will be. I was riding over the farm of my father one day, and he was with me, and we were discussing the same thing; and I was talking about doing more for the colored race, and he told me this: "Son, I hope you will do everything you can; but do you see that bull out there in the pasture?" And I said, "Yes, sir." And he said, "What kind is he?" And I said, "A white-faced heifer." And he said, "Do you know why his face is white?" And I said, "No; I don't." And he said, "Because his pappy had one." There is within each of us the result of thousands and thousands of years heredity, and no attractive phrase, whether in the Constitution or designed now for some other purpose, can change that fact, and no law that this Nation through its Congress can pass can change it. Gentlemen, I should like to tell you that until 75 or 80 percent of the people of an area, in my State of Tennessee particularly-and I think it applies pretty generally throughout the South and throughout the rest of the country-are ready for a bill, it cannot be enforced in the spirit. You can enforce it with armed force if necessary, but unless it can be enforced with the good wishes of the majority it will serve to retard social gains of the minority, and I think we of the South are not ready for this bill. Senator DONNELL. Senator Ellender, do you have any questions you care to ask? Senator ELLENDER. No questions. Senator DONNELL. We are thankful for your giving us the benefit of your views and also giving us for the record this statement of Mr. Dossett. (Dr. Hutcheson submitted the following brief:) I, Dr. R. H. Hutcheson, am speaking officially as commissioner of the Tennessee Department of Public Health and for myself individually. My experience since 1920 has been sufficiently varied to give me what I consider an insight into the medical-social life and experience of all classes, and especially the Negro race of the South. I should like the record to show that I consider myself a friend of the colored people. Since graduation from medical school I am sure that approximately one-half of my work has been with the Negro. I try never to miss a possible opportunity to improve his chance for social improvement. As director of the Tennessee Department of Public Health I am personally responsible for final approval of all employees in the department, a department employing primarily technically trained personnel. In instances where we feel that a Negro physician could do the job to be done, every effort is made to employ the Negro instead of the white physician. I make this statement with the full realization that it violates the conditions of S. 984, in that we are literally discriminating against the white physician. We have in Tennessee approximately 3,000 white physicians. We have about 185 negro physicians; yet in the health department, out of a total of 115 physicians employed, 10 are colored and 105 are white. Of nurses, we have a total of 259; 40 are colored, and 219 are white. Of nurses' aides, we have a total of 17; 5 are colored, and 12 are white. Of dentists, we have a total of 8, of which 1 is colored and 7 are white. Job descriptions, class specifications, and compensation is the same, regardless of color. The over-all percentage of colored personnel employed is approximately 10 percent plus. Those in favor of S. 984 probably will say-your attitude being what it is-why do you object to the bill? My reason is simply this: Those who favor the bill either do not know anything of mass psychology in the South or are not interested in the welfare of the Negro. Slowly, with the aid of a large number of interested southern friends but largely by and through the efforts of their own leaders. progress is being made. This progress will continue unless their less-wellinformed white well-wishers attempt to force the issue and by so doing negate gains that have been made. To understand the soundness of this reasoning one must examine the attitude of the people in what is usually called the North (actually the area of the United States that has in the past had very few Negroes in residence) and the attitude of those of us in the so-called South. That attitude is as different as the two poles, and in very few instances is the basic fact understood by either. In the South, contrary to general opinion, we, as a rule, like-actually I should say we are quite fond of, and in many instances love the individual Negro. We know him, and know his limitations, and therefore as a race we know that collectively he needs time to raise the race intelligence level to that-as low as it is of his white cousin. In the North there has been too much talk of equality of opportunity for the race as a whole, with no regard for the individual. The statement is made in this bill that present conditions foment unrest of the minority group. I agree that there has been some unrest, and I agree that present conditions are responsible, but it is not a practice of discriminating in employment against properly qualified persons but instead agitation designed to create unrest. Speaking only for myself personally and as one with some knowledge of biology-there is no such thing as two people equal in all respects. There is within each of us the results of the summation of thousands of years of heredity, which, when combined with our environment, made us what we are, and attractive phrases cannot change this fact. Gentlemen, I should like to tell you that until 75 to 80 percent of the people in an area are ready for a bill it cannot be enforced in spirit, and unless this bill can be enforced with the good wishes of the majority it will serve to retard social gains of the minority. We in the South are not ready for this bill. Senator DONNELL. The committee will be in recess until 12 noon tomorrow. (Whereupon, at 12:25 p. m., the committee adjourned until noon. Friday, July 18, 1947.) ANTIDISCRIMINATION IN EMPLOYMENT FRIDAY, JULY 18, 1947 UNITED STATES SENATE, COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON ANTIDISCRIMINATION, Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 12 noon, in the committee room, Committee on Labor and Public Welfare, Capitol Building, Senator Forrest C. Donnell presiding. Present: Senators Donnell (presiding), Smith, and Ellender. We will hear from Mr. Tyre Taylor, general counsel, Southern States Industrial Council, Washington, D. C. STATEMENT OF TYRE TAYLOR, GENERAL COUNSEL, SOUTHERN STATES INDUSTRIAL COUNCIL, WASHINGTON, D. C. Mr. TAYLOR. Mr. Chairman, my name is Tyre Taylor, general counsel, Southern States Industrial Council, Washington, D. C. I was born June 4, 1898, at Laurel Springs, N. C., on a farm. My father's farm adjoined Uncle Bob Doughton's farm. My high-school training was received at Glade Valley High School, a Presbyterian school. I attended the University of North Carolina for undergraduate work and obtained my master's degree and went to the Harvard Law • School. Senator DONNELL. What did you specialize in at the University of North Carolina? Mr. TAYLOR. Taxation, Senator; State, real property taxation in North Carolina. Senator DONNELL. At Harvard you took your law course and received a degree of LL. B.? Mr. TAYLOR. No, sir; although I completed all my courses, I did not receive the degree. I attended 2 years, and my money ran out, and they would not permit me to receive it. Senator DONNELL. Did you study constitutional law? Mr. TAYLOR. Not at Harvard, but I did at the University of North Carolina. Senator DONNELL. Was it the constitutional law of the United Senator DONNELL. Had you finished with your qualifications? Senator DONNELL. In North Carolina? Mr. TAYLOR. Yes. I entered the private practice of law in Charlotte, N. C., and was there 2 years, 1927 to 1929. I was the secretary and executive counsel to the late Max Gardner, while he was Governor of North Carolina. As executive counsel I had charge of all parole and clemency matters. Senator DONNELL. And extradition matters? Mr. TAYLOR. And extradition matters. I was on the Washington legal staff of the RFC from 1932 to 1937, working on bank recapitalization and bank reorganizations for banks in the South. The first part of that period and during the latter part I was working under the chief of tax legislation. I resigned in 1937. Thereafter I was assistant to the attorney gen eral in charge of the Cherokee land reservation litigation in western North Carolina, a matter in litigation wherein some whites had come come in and squatted on the Indian reservation. I was counsel to the House Small Business Committee in 1942 and 1943 for a special study of the wartime problems of southern industry. We held nine hearings in the South and several hearings here in Washington. I am general counsel for the Southern States Industrial Council, Washington, D. C., an organization representing 16 Southern States. It represents manufacturers in all lines in the Southern States. I might mention, Senator Donnell, that you undoubtedly know some of our directors in Missouri; for example, Mr. Howard I. Young and Mr. Grant Stauffer. Senator DONNELL. In Kansas City? Mr. TAYLOR. In Kansas City; yes, sir. And you, Senator Ellender, I know must be acquainted with our directors in Louisiana, Mr. John U. Barr and Mr. C. C. Sheppard— Senator ELLENDER. Yes. Mr. TAYLOR. I have no further preliminary statement to make and will be glad to answer any questions. Senator DONNELL. Have you in the course of your work examined into the industrial condition of both the white and colored workers in . the southern part of the United States? Mr. TAYLOR. I have not had occasion to go into that in any specialized detail, Senator. I have been all over the South. I have been in all the States and know a great many of the plants. I am in reasonably close touch with the whole situation down there. Senator DONNELL. You have in the course of your experience known a great many colored people and have observed their contacts with white people in the section in which you have lived, I presume? Mr. TAYLOR. Yes. One of the proudest things that I can recall about my public service was the fact that when I came to Washington some of the most beautiful recommendations and testimonials I had were from Negro leaders in North Carolina which came about as the result of the fact I had had that contact with all these prisoners. We had about 8,000 prisoners, and 60 percent were colored, but in the county where I was born I doubt if there were over 100 Negro families. Senator ELLENDER. When you say 60 percent were colored, you mean for the entire State? Mr. TAYLOR. Prison population. |