Other than this, and until specific proposals come off the drawing boards of the Commission, there is little more that can be said. The Appalachian Regional Development Program is well underway and now I would hope the Four Corners Commission moves with dispatch.

Senator MUSKIE. Our next witness, again from yesterday, and I am trying to rush through here so we won't shortchange today's witnesses is the Honorable Orren Beaty, Jr., Federal cochairman of the Four Corners Regional Commission.

It is a pleasure to welcome you, Mr. Beaty.

STATEMENT OF ORREN BEATY, JR., FEDERAL COCHAIRMAN, FOUR CORNERS REGIONAL COMMISSION

Mr. BEATY. Thank you, Senator Muskie.

Mr. Chairman, I assume I will be the only representative of the Four Corners commission here.

The four Governors gave me most of last Tuesday, a week ago yesterday, when we had an organization meeting. At that time, all of them indicated their schedules would prevent their attending. I understand Governor Rampton is preparing a statement for inclusion in the record. Other than that, I am not sure what the Governors plan. Senator MUSKIE. Those statements, if there are more than one, will be included in the record at the end of your statement.

Mr. BEATY. Thank you.

As you know, this is in a way a continuation of some hearings that Senator Montoya held in the Four Corners region, the New Mexico part of it, some weeks ago. I waded through some of the testimony that was given to Senator Montoya's group in the State and got a pretty good idea of what was submitted at those hearings.

Senator MONTOYA (presiding). Welcome before the committee, Mr. Beaty.

I didn't read your statement but came in while you were in a colloquy with Senator Muskie.

Mr. BEATY. I had just started, Senator.

Senator MONTOYA. You may proceed.

Mr. BEATY. It is a privilege to be before the committee again so soon after my confirmation hearings.

I am well aware, of course, of your interest in this and that of Senator Anderson and Senator Moss, all of whom testified on this legislation when it was being prepared before Regional Commissions were authorized.

I was talking to Senator Muskie about the previous hearings that you held in New Mexico and was commenting that I had not read every word of them but have gone through them and gotten the general tenor of the comments that were made out there.

Since August 9, when the Senate confirmed my appointment as Federal cochairman of the Four Corners Regional Commission, I have met with the Governors of the States of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and Utah, on an individual basis twice, and once as a group. I met with them once as a group and also the Governors' alternate members on separate occasions and had one meeting with all of them as a preliminary to the organization meeting we had a week ago yesterday at the Four Corners site. The Commission was formally organized there.

The Governors themselves elected Governor Love as State cochairman, and Governor Cargo of New Mexico was elected as the alternate cochairman. We hope to meet again late in October.

Senator MONTOYA. Who did you say were the chairman and cochairman?

Mr. BEATY. Governor Love of Colorado was elected unanimously by the Governors as the State cochairman; Governor Cargo as the alternate State cochairman.

As you know, Governor Love and Governor Rampton are the only two Governors now serving who represented their States when the region was first set up last December. Governor Love is the senior Governor of the group currently serving.

Senator MONTOYA. Would you explain or lay a foundation for anything further that you have to say, explain the composition of the population of the area that you will serve in this capacity?

Mr. BEATY. In justifying the creation of the region, the planners from the States and from the Economic Development Administration took note of the fact that large parts of this area are populated by Indians. The Indian population of the Four Corners States is about 7 per cent of the total, which compares with less than 1 percent of the national, so there is quite a concentration of Indians who are traditionally underemployed. Their income level is quite low by comparison with both the State and the national averages.

There are also large concentrations in two of the States of persons of Spanish-American descent living largely in farming areas.

Senator MONTOYA. Now, you have this concentration in New Mexico, you have it in Arizona, you have it in Colorado, and you have them in parts of Utah, too.

Mr. BEATY. Utah, to a lesser extent than the other three States, and the larger part of Arizona is in the southern part of the State which is not included in the counties that are in this region.

Senator MONTOYA. You may proceed.

Mr. BEATY. Thank you.

Although no studies or programs have yet been instituted by the Commission, studies already made by other agencies and institutions and these include studies made by the Agricultural Colleges of the States, the universities, and by the Federal Government-these studies and conversations that I have had with key people in each of the States have led me to some conclusions that, and I am speaking strictly for myself, the Commission has not taken any official position on these things; we have just had discussions.

First, there is general agreement that throughout much of these four States concentrating in the actual Four Corners area, but not confined there there is inadequate transportation.

I attended a meeting in Albuquerque about 3 weeks ago of the seven States in the Rocky Mountain Federation. The four States of this region plus the three others, those seven in it, believe there should be better improved air transportation-commercial air service in the Four Corners States.

In addition, the feeling is that there is need for additional highways. They believe improvements in the economic level of the region are hindered by an inadequate highway and road system.

Second, new industry is making its way into the region, but more

slowly than in some other areas, and assistance will be needed to provide facilities for industry in many of the small cities and towns.

There are examples of this that have already been approved under other Economic Development Administration programs. We have some models to follow, in other words.

Third, I have encountered the belief that education and vocational training will be needed in some of these areas to fill the manpower requirements of new industries or, to put it somewhat differently, to provide a trained manpower pool to attract industry.

There are large numbers of available people who with a little training have proven that they can hold down jobs with industry. The survey that Fairchild or someone conducted at Shiprock, N.M., is one example of that.

There are many possible fields for development, and as soon as the job of completing organization and staffing is done, we will be ready to explore these possibilities in detail and something definite to be prepared to go on with programs.

I have encountered a complete willingness on the part of the planning and economic development staffs of the four States to cooperate with the Commission, and am hopeful that within a reasonable period of time results will be shown which will justify the hopes for this legislation which are shared by the Public Works Committees of the Senate and the House of Representatives which authored it and the administration which is charged with carrying it out.

With that very brief statement, I am prepared to discuss with you things that interest you specifically.

Senator MONTOYA. Mr. Beaty, I fully recognize that you have been in office about only a month and that you have made preliminary investigations through your contacts with the Governors of the four States and attended a meeting with the Governors at Four Corners. I believe you heard the testimony on yesterday where I made some observations as to the desirability of trying to bring about an earlier start on the programing and group training for action of the Four Corners development program, to bring about an earlier start than was realized in the Appalachia Commission.

Do you feel that this is possible in view of what Mr. Davis, the Assistant Secretary for Economic Development of the Department of Commerce, said the other day, namely, that some preliminary planning could be launched awaiting the overall plans?

Mr. BEATY. Mr. Chairman, it is my intention to do some staffing, keeping in mind the fact that this kind of planning needs to be done right now. At the moment I am the staff and have only one secretary. I am looking over the qualifications of several other well-qualified people.

The legislation now pending to provide some supplemental grant money if I don't predict the Congress will act on this, but assuming the Congress will act on this, it is something that might enable us to move faster than has been done previously because for the first time this kind of money will be available. As you recognize, it is a little. different program than the Appalachia program and they have had quite a bit of money, as I understand it, available for highway construction and other programs.

Senator MONTOYA. Of course, you must bear in mind, Mr. Beaty, that when the committee enacted this legislation there is a little history in the deliberations to the effect that we are trying to follow the pattern set by Appalachia and that would include a look at road needs in this particular area. It is a rather isolated area and that partially accounts for its economic distress.

Surely roads will be needed in the Navajo Reservation and parts of northern New Mexico and other access roads to the main byways or interstate highways that crisscross the area. I am almost sure that the committee was intent upon following this type of pattern providing moneys for access road needs in the area. Of course, we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Another consideration that I would like to elicit from you is this: In view of the fact that we have three cultures represented in this particular area, namely, the Indian culture, the Spanish-American culture and the so-called Anglo or Anglo-Saxon or modern American culture, is it your intent to try to recruit from all these groups the possible technical know-how and assistance so that you can have better communication with all the groups involved in this development? Mr. BEATTY. Yes, sir. I feel that the Spanish-Americans and the Indians, for example, cannot feel any proper identification with the program, receive any hope from it, unless they have people of their racial extraction working in it. The people from both of these groups are some of those that I am now looking at as possible staff employees.

Senator MONTOYA. Will that consideration stay on

staffing

Mr. BEATY. Yes, sir.

Senator MONTOYA. Here in Washington?

to your

What do you plan to do with respect to marshaling the resources of the universities in the area such as is being done in the Ozarks region?

Mr. BEATY. Perhaps because I attended that school, New Mexico State University has sent two or three letters to me about the various possibilities, the agricultural school particularly.

I have met with representatives of four of the State universities who have discussed with me the storehouse of knowledge they already have and their willingness to participate in additional studies. These are the Universities of Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico, and the State University of Arizona. I am sure that additional help can come from other universities that so far have not come forward. I intend to make use of them.

I don't know of any formal organization such as Mr. McCandless mentioned yesterday existing in this area, consortium, but they are working together and have expressed a desire so that none of them will get the bulk of any Federal financing. They would like to all participate and work with each other. We feel that we can do better that way and I intend to make as much use as possible of information they already have.

Senator MONTOYA. I think that is vitally necessary because through the universities you can conduct economic studies in specific counties in the area or in particular regions concerned such as has been done in the State of Ohio by the Ohio University.

Now, also, what do you intend to do by way of liaison or coordination or cooperation with the existing Federal agencies in the particular States?

Mr. BEATY. I have written already to Secretary Freeman to seek what information is available on studies they have conducted over the years on agriculture in these four States, problems involving the smaller farmers. I don't think that our activities here concern the large irrigated farmers, ones who put down deep wells and grow crops on a large scale; they are not in economic distress-if they are, they are capable of handling it. We are talking about the small areas, some of which have been farmed for 200 or 300 years and where production has gone down, and are not operating economically.

I have been promised help by the Agriculture Department. Last week, I toured for about a day and a half parts of the Navajo Reservation where the agricultural conservation programs have been at work improving range so that the Indians can improve their breed of cattle and sheep that they use and can stay on the reservation and make the kind of living there that they should be allowed to make, not go into the neighboring towns and try to get jobs for which they are not at this point fitted. This is an example.

I think we ought to make use of all the Federal agencies that have programs there and not initiate a lot of new things ourselves that tend to overlap.

Senator MONTOYA. Well, the point I was speaking to or the possibility I was speaking to is our experience in New Mexico just in the last 2 or 3 months where I called on all the Federal agencies to accompany me on these hearings and they did so accompany me. Wherever there was a local problem, we always had the agency right there to see if it could resolve that problem and we were able to initiate quite a few projects in northern New Mexico just by having the agency there, and where two or more agencies could get involved we got the answer right there.

I feel that the Federal agencies such as the Department of Agriculture through its State committee and the Farmers Home Administration and the Soil Conservation Service and the Forest Service, they can do a lot of this in a region like the four corners and their know-how is certainly most helpful.

We can go to the Department of Labor for on-the-job training and manpower training. The Economic Development Administration with their vast resources and their extended jurisdiction over many matters, such as for example they have availability of funds for access roads and for the building of technical schools and other

matters.

Now, if you are able to develop an informal consortium of these Federal agencies in your planning and eventual execution of the blueprint and plan, I think this is what would spell the kind of teamwork that would bring results.

Mr. BEATY. I agree, and I have been offered help from everybody that I have encountered.

The regional forester, for example, at Albuquerque, called me offering to go over everything they have in this area the first time I get into Albuquerque.