Mr. KYL. No. I was not the one who contacted him, sir. It was the Park Service who contacted Mr. Walker and relayed that to me. Mr. REUSS. Who did make the contact?

Mr. KYL. Mr. Dickenson, who is present, did talk to Mr. Walker. Mr. REUSS. Would you step forward please, Mr. Dickenson, sit down next to Mr. Kyl, and identify yourself for the record. Will you state what communications occurred between you and Mr. Walker, what you said and what he said and when.

STATEMENT OF RUSSELL E. DICKENSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

Mr. DICKENSON. Yes. I am Russ Dickenson, Mr. Chairman, the Deputy Director of the National Park Service.

At approximately 3:00, 3:15--the exact time I am not quite sure of-I did place a call to the airport in Denver, Colo., for Mr. Glen T. Bean, who is the deputy regional director of the Rocky Mountain region. I had him paged because I knew that he was meeting Mr. Walker at the airport. And we did succeed in getting Mr. Walker on the telephone. I advised him that a subpena had been issued, and service had been attempted on him for his appearance here today. And after consulting with other members of the Department, I advised Mr. Walker that it was a departmental recommendation that he use every means at his disposal to try to return to be here at this hearing today.

Mr. REUSS. Mr. Dingell?

Mr. DINGELL. Would you describe precisely what he said in response

to that?

Mr. DICKENSON. He said he would.

Mr. DINGELL. He said that he would return?

Mr. DICKENSON. That 's right.

Mr. DINGELL. Did he indicate to you the flight on which he would be returning?

Mr. DICKENSON. He did not discuss that with me.

Mr. DINGELL. Please give us as fully as you can Mr. Walker's statements to you in response to your comments to him.

Mr. DICKENSON. He indicated that he would immediately try tohe would see what the schedules were and he would make every attempt to come back. That's just simply the extent of it. I had no further conversation with Mr. Walker yesterday.

Mr. REUSS. Mr. Demarest?

Mr. DEMAREST. Did you bring with you a copy of Mr. Walker's travel orders.

Mr. DICKENSON. I have that here this morning, sir.

Mr. DEMAREST. Would you please supply that to the clerk? Was Mr. Walker traveling alone?

Mr. DICKENSON. Mr. Walker was accompanied by his executive assistant, Mr. Douglas Blazer.

Mr. DEMAREST. Is that Mr. D. Blazer?

Mr. DICKENSON. Yes, Douglas.

Mr. DEMAREST. Mr. Walker's first name is Ronald?

Mr. DICKENSON. Ronald.

Mr. DEMAREST. He traveled to Denver on United Airlines; is that correct?

Mr. DICKENSON. I am sorry. I don't have his itinerary, and I am not familiar with his precise travel arrangements.

Mr. REUSS. What was the nature of Mr. Walker's business in Denver?

Mr. DICKENSON. I am told that Mr. Walker is conferring with officials of our Rocky Mountain regional office and others in connection with his transition from the directorship.

Mr. REUSS. Very well. You may step down for the moment and I ask Mr. Demarest to take the stand. Thank you, gentlemen, and we will recall you.

Would you state your name?

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM F. DEMAREST, JR., COUNSEL, SUBCOMMITTEE ON ACTIVITIES OF REGULATORY AGENCIES OF THE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

Mr. DEMAREST. Do you want me to be sworn?

Mr. REUSS. I will in a moment. Would you state your name first? Mr. DEMAREST. William F. Demarest, Jr.

Mr. REUSS. And what are your duties?

Mr. DEMAREST. I am counsel to the House Permanent Select Committee on Small Business.

Mr. REUSS. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Mr. DEMAREST. I do.

Mr. REUSS. Mr. Demarest, will you tell us anything you may have been able to ascertain with respect to Mr. Walker's movements in the last 24 hours?

Mr. DEMAREST. Mr. Chairman, yesterday it was ascertained that Mr. Walker was not in Washington, D.C. I subsequently verified, by telephone call to United Airlines, that an R. Walker had, in fact, a reservation on a flight to Denver, Colo., leaving Dulles Airport at approximately 11:30. Subsequent telephone calls confirmed that, in fact, Mr. Walker was in Denver, Colo.

I was thereafter informed by Mr. Kyl, Assistant Secretary of Interior, that Mr. Walker would make every effort consistent with airline availability to return to Washington to attend this hearing. I determined that it would be necessary for us to verify airline availability, and therefore called United Airlines at phone number 893-3400, was told the flight from Denver to Dulles-pardon me, to Baltimorewould leave Denver at approximately 4:15, and that no seats were available. I thereupon called TWA at 659-1000, and ascertained that a flight leaving at 4:45 from Denver, Colo., with a change of planes in Chicago, arriving 11:04 in Baltimore, had a reservation for one R. Walker and one D. Blazer-I do not know the first names-which had been canceled by United Airlines. There were, at 5 p.m. eastern standard time, approximately seven seats remaining on that flight. Mr. REUSS. Are there any questions from the committees? Thank you. Mr. Demarest. You may stand down.

Mr. Dingell, it appears to me that on the undisputed evidence the committees are not being told the truth, and that the witness, Mr. Walker, is contemptuous of the committees. I would, therefore, recommend to you, sir, that you take the necessary steps via subpena to compel the appearance of the witness, and that the hearing, when it concludes this morning, will be simply held in recess so that we can proceed as soon as the U.S. marshal appears with the body.

Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I cordially agree with you on this. It appears to me that the witness is neither playing fair with his superiors in the Department nor is he playing fair with the committees, nor is he properly responding to the committees. I am pleased to inform you that I am authorized by the chairman of the Committee on Small Business, pursuant to our rules, to issue the necessary subpena to guarantee the appearance of Mr. Walker. Such subpena has already been issued, but I will see to it that it is reissued in an appropriate form to assure his appearance.

I would suggest that the subpena be issued for Monday next, or the earliest moment possible thereafter. And I would like to request the privilege of working with you and your staff so that we and our two staffs might appropriately see to it that this subpena is duly issued in an appropriate form, and Mr. Walker presents himself to respond to the proper inquiries of these two committees.

Mr. REUSS. I thank the gentleman and I join him in that expression. Before we do this, though, let me ask the representative of the Interior Department: Is it really necessary to go through this ridiculous performance? The Department of Interior does have a Secretary. Can't he order his assistant to cease his mendacity, get on a plane, and come out here and tell us the facts that we want to know?

STATEMENT OF JOHN KYL-Resumed

Mr. KYL. Well, sir, first, begging your indulgence, I cannot agree with all of the language you add, because I have no information. Mr. DINGELL. It appears to me, Mr. Kyl, that you are not even getting the truth from your subordinates out there.

Mr. KYL. The answer to your question is obviously yes; I am sure we can get Mr. Walker here to testify. I think certainly by Monday there would be a flight available for him.

Mr. DINGELL. You and I had a personal discussion about this yesterday.

Mr. KYL. That is correct.

Mr. DINGELL. And you had a personal discussion with Mr. Reuss, at which time it was agreed that you would make your best efforts to produce the other two gentlemen, Mr. Arnberger and Mr. Mortimore. You have indicated that because they were in California there was some difficulty in getting them back here and you were informed by me and by Mr. Reuss that we would be satisfied if you made your best efforts to produce them. We did advise you, however, that we did insist upon the presence of Mr. Walker.

Mr. KYL. Yes.

Mr. DINGELL. And you advised me, and I understand that you advised Mr. Reuss, that Mr. Walker would be here, subject to plane reservations.

Now, I must point out to you, we found this whole circumstance most curious. You were presented with a letter from these committees as a matter of fact a series of letters from both Mr. Reuss and me-indicating to you our concerns and that it was our intention, as the staff investigation proceeded, to see to it that witnesses from the Department did respond to questions and inquiries in appropriate public hearings by the two subcommittees. You did receive. I believe on the 18th, a letter advising you that we would anticipate receiving

testimony this morning-the letter being dated the 17th-of the individuals referred to in the comments by Mr. Reuss in his opening statement, and in the letters and correspondence from Mr. Reuss and me. Am I correct?

Mr. KYL. Your statement is correct so far as I know.

Mr. DINGELL. I am informed that a copy of the letter was sent to Mr. Walker, the Director of the Park Service, by the subcommittees, through the U.S. mails. Now, I am aware the U.S. mails do not move too well these days, but I am aware of the fact that our staff also hand delivered copies to Mr. Walker at his office. Am I correct?

Mr. KYL. I have to assume you are correct on that. I did not personally.

Mr. DINGELL. Well, perhaps

Mr. KYL. Did Mr. Walker have a copy of the letter?

STATEMENT OF RUSSELL E. DICKENSON-Resumed

Mr. DICKENSON. Yes, he did.

Mr. DINGELL. Come up here so that we can have the benefit of you right there at the microphone, sir.

Mr. Walker was then aware of this hearing, am I correct?

Mr. DICKENSON. Mr. Walker did see a copy of the incoming correspondence from the subcommittees.

Mr. DINGELL. What was Mr. Walker's advice?

Mr. DICKENSON. I did not discuss that with him.

Mr. DINGELL. He received information about the letter before he departed this part of the country; did he not?

Mr. DICKENSON. Well, Mr. Walker did have a copy of the letter, but I was not privy to his thinking, his discussions. I was simply instructed to appear today as the substitute witness.

Mr. DINGELL. Did you discuss the letter with Mr. Walker?

Mr. DICKENSON. No, sir.

Mr. DINGELL. You did not?

Mr. DICKENSON. No, sir.

Mr. DINGELL. Did you discuss the letter with Mr. Walker, Mr. Kyl? Mr. KYL. No. I have not spoken to Mr. Walker.

Mr. DINGELL. Well, you are an old friend and a former colleague, and I have great personal respect and affection for you, and this pains me greatly. As I indicated to you yesterday, you were not the one that I wanted to inquire of. You have no personal knowledge, as I understand it, of the serious questions that these subcommittees wish to direct to Mr. Walker.

Let me ask you this: You presented us with a copy of Mr. Walker's travel orders. These are most remarkable travel orders. They are dated July 1, 1974, and they expire June 30, 1975. Under "purpose and remarks" it says, "to conduct official business within the scope of your duties and responsibilities." Then it says:

Per diem allowance: in the conterminous United States the maximum provided by the law and regulations: in Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, the maximum provided in bulletins issued by the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Actual Subsistence: when necessary not to exceed $40 per day in conterminous United States. In Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, the maximum provided in bulletins issued by the Office of the Secretary of Defense plus $18.

Travel is authorized by common carrier, privately owned automobile, extra fare excess baggage, Government owned conveyance, privately owned automobile at a mileage rate of 12 cents subject by administrative determination to be to the advantage of the Govern

ment.

What were the purposes of Mr. Walker's trip to Denver, if you might advise me, please?

[The travel authorization and related departmental manual re such authorizations follow:]

You are authorized to travel as indicated below and to incur necessary expenses in accordance with appli cable laws and regulations.

8. FROM: Washington, D.C.

9. TO:

PLACES OF TRAVEL

Such points in the conterminous United States, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico,
and the Virgin Islands as necessary and return to your official station.

10. PURPOSE AND REMARKS:

To conduct official business within the scope of your duties and
responsibilities.

11. PER DIEM ALLOWANCE: In the conterminous United States the maximum provided by law and regulations; in Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, the maximum provided in bulletins issued by the Office of Secretary of Defense. ACTUAL SUBSISTENCE: when necessary not to exceed $40 per day in conterminous United States. In Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico anc the Virgin Islands, the maximum provided in bulletins issued by the Office of the Secy. of Itemization on a daily basist must be reflected on voucher. Lodging Beginning on or about Ending on or about June 30, 1975

$18.

July 1, 1974
MODE OF TRAVEL

14. Extra fare Excessbaggage 15.
at a mileage rate of

Government-owned conveyance

12 cents, subject to: Administratively determined to be to the advantage of the Government

A showing of advantage to the Government

Not to exceed cost by common carrier, including consideration of Per Diem allowance

13. Common carrier

16. Privately owned automobile

(a)

(b)

(c)

17. 18.

Transportation immediate family

MISCELLANEOUS

19. Shipment household goods and personal effects Other (specily) You are authorized to use a combination of air, rail, and bus transcortation and first class airplane accommodations when necessary; to engage accommodations at a hotel or otherwise to transact official business; to hire special conveyance.