Dr. MCGINNES. I do not know, sir, that it would change our load, but I think it would give us a greater opportunity to do a better job in the field in which we are interested.

Mr. JUDD. So it would be an advantage to you and not a disadvantage?

Dr. MCGINNES. I think it would be mutually advantageous.
Mr. JUDD. Thank you.

Mrs. BOLTON. Thank you very much.

Mrs. BOLTON. The next witness is Dr. Hyde from the State Department who is going to clarify a number of matters for us that are under question. Various members raised questions the other day and we need very much to have them clarified.

STATEMENT OF DR. H. VAN ZILE HYDE, ALTERNATE UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE ON INTERIM COMMISSION, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION

Perhaps it would be simplest, Doctor, if we asked the questions and you answered them. Mr. Jackson earlier asked how many international agencies are there concerned with health work of various kinds? Dr. HYDE. There is the Interim Commission of the World Health Organization and the Pan American Sanitary Bureau which, as we pointed out, will be integrated as the regional office of the World Health Organization.

There is still in existence the International Office of the Public Health in Paris.

A protocol was signed in New York at the same time as the constitution of the World Health Organization which provides for the absorption of that office into the World Health Organization.

Mrs. BOLTON. May I interrupt for a question? Was the United States ever a member of that Organization?

Dr. HYDE. Yes. It has been a member of it since 1908. The functions of that office have actually been taken over by the Interim Commission. The assets and liabilities will be transferred when the protocol comes into effect. Those are the only organizations that are fully dedicated to health.

There are certain health interests in others of the specialized agencies. The FAO, for instance, has an interest in nutrition; the ILO in industrial hygiene; the UNESCO in the basic sciences which are fundamental to health. The Aviation Organization in aviation medicine and in the health restrictions that affect international travel. The policy of the Interim Commission is that the interests of the organizations in tangential fields should be encouraged by the World Health Organization and assisted. The Interim Commission is already establishing joint committees with certain of the organizations, with the FAO on nutrition, for instance. The International Children's Emergency Fund will look to that joint commission for its technical advice in regard to nutrition.

The UNESCO's interest in science have led to a conference between the committee of the Interim Commission and the executive board of UNESCO in which they have agreed to certain fundamental principles, the basic principles being that UNESCO recognizes the primary responsibility of the specialized agencies such as WHO for the en

couragement of research, education, and the organization of science. in the fields most relevant to their constitutional responsibilities.

In other words, it recognizes WHO as primarily responsible in the field of health. UNESCO and the Interim Commission of WHO have agreed that every effort should be made for full cooperation at all levels, namely, the organizational, the expert, and the secretariat levels, in regard to fields of common interest.

They have therefore, agreed that there will be no overlapping and that they will coordinate their work.

Mrs. BOLTON. In the matter of the field work, they all work together. do they?

Dr. HYDE. Yes. In health, the organizations doing field work are the WHO and, at the regional level, the Pan American Sanitary Bureau. UNESCO is doing certain field work in science, establishing field science cooperation offices in certain parts of the world. It has been agreed between UNESCO and the Interim Commission that any matters regarding health which come to the attention of such field offices of UNESCO will be referred to the Interim Commission directly or at such levels as may be determined by the Interim Commission. It has been agreed that it may become desirable, at a later date, for WHO liaison officers to be attached to UNESCO field science offices. It was agreed also that UNESCO will consult with the Interim Commission in developing its plans for field science offices and that the Interim Commission will keep UNESCO informed concerning the field organization of the Interim Commission and the planning in regard to the regional structure of the WHO.

Mrs. BOLTON. How are we going to justify to the Congress these many groups all dealing in this same field?

Dr. HYDE. WHO will not do any work in a field where another agency has a greater interest. The Civil Aviation Organization is interested in aviation medicine, the reaction of the human body to altitudes and changes in pressure, and so forth. The WHO would not plan to do work in that field. But if it saw problems in those fields. that it felt should be worked on, it would call the attention of those other agencies to them. Joint committees, are being established between agencies now. With the objective of avoiding duplication and to determine how best those fields in which two organizations have an interest may be covered with the greatest efficiency and effectiveness. Mr. JACKSON. May I offer a suggestion at this point. Madam Chairman, in connection with the many relationships bearing on this problem? I think it would be most helpful to the committee-I know it would be to me personally-in presenting this matter on the floor, if we could have a graphic chart drawn in some such fashion. I merely sketch this out to give you a general idea. It should show the relationship between the various organizations. For instance, the Sanitary Bureau: Where does it fit into the picture? What is anticipated? This should be a sizable chart so it could be taken to the floor. Frankly, it was confusing to me and I can see how it could be confusing to other Members when all of these various branches and all of these activities which are concerned with health are under discussion.

I think such a graphic demonstration graphically showing the various agencies, with a few pertinent remarks, would be of inestimable value to us in presenting this subject matter.

I offer that as a suggestion, Madam Chairman.

Mr. JUDD. It would cover the relationship of WHO within the United Nations and also its relationships with other organizations and our own Government in the same general field.

Mr. JACKSON. That is right, if graphically presented.

Mr. JUDD. Or in related fields.

Dr. HYDE. You mean extending beyond the international field? Mr. JUDD. Yes, if possible. The question will come up, how does this relate to various other agencies working in the health field? We had a representative of the Red Cross here this morning. If there is no relationship and the fields are entirely separate, a footnote to that effect could be added at the bottom. The three or four other organizations that are working in the field of health, of epidemic prevention and relief could be mentioned, and a statement could be made in a footnote that there is no overlapping of work, no organic relationship between the two.

Dr. HYDE. Yes, sir.

Mrs. BOLTON. We shall look to you for this graph, Dr. Hyde. (The information requested is as follows:)

Mrs. BOLTON. There was a point brought out in the Senate committee report, if I might insert it at this point. The opinion was strongly expressed that unless steps are taken in the future better to coordinate the activities of the specialized agencies and establish a central budegtary control, we will eventually run into financial and administrative difficulties of a very serious nature. I think this is all pertinent to that. We would be very glad to have the report that you suggest.

Dr. HYDE. I am sure that could be done. I would like to point out that the whole matter of relationships between the agencies is in a formative period. WHO does not exist and the Interim Commission is studying what its relationships should be and carrying on preliminary negotiations with other agencies. It has held negotiations with UNESCO which I have mentioned and will be negotiating with the United Nations for the first time on the 4th of next month. Such a chart can be worked out, but it will in no wise be a final pattern, although I am sure it would help clarify the picture.

Mr. JACKSON. If it will reflect the anticipated relationship, that is all that can be expected at this time.

Dr. HYDE. Yes, sir.

Mr. JACKSON. And it will allow us to pursue parallel courses in our presentation of the World Health Organization.

Mrs. BOLTON. Mr. Smith's committee, Subcommittee No. 6, is making a systematic study of international organizations which will be ready before another session of Congress and in the meanwhile the work during this intermediate and interim period will be under discussion at all levels, which would mean further consideration.

Mr. Hyde, do you want to proceed further or would you like to have other questions at this time?

Dr. HYDE. There are other questions, I believe.

Mrs. BOLTON. Dr. Hyde was given our list of questions. Perhaps it would be better if you were to go right on down the list.

Dr. HYDE. A question was asked concerning our annual contributions to international organizations.

The United States contribution to the International Office of Public Health in Paris, of which we have been members since 1908, has been $5,104.80.

The United States annual contribution to the Pan American Sanitary Bureau is $62,810.

We have previously submitted an analysis of other United States contributions to the United Nations and the other specialized agencies. The question was asked as to an expense to the United States for its participation in the WHO outside of its annual contributions.

Our estimates are that this would fall between $50,000 and $100,000. This would meet the expense of delegations to the World Health Assembly, to meetings of the executive board and essential additional personnel in Washington. This would cover the possible necessity of establishing a small office at the headquarters, if the headquarters are in Europe or some other part of the world.

Mrs. BOLTON. Doctor, I wonder if you could come closer to a definite figure. For the ILO, the figure is $93,000. Such a gap as there is between $50,000 and $100,000 is apt to be questioned.