leagues on the Inter-American Defense Board were unanimous in expressing frankly their deep satisfaction and their earnest hope that this constructive, essential measure for strengthening the inter-Ameri can system would be enacted. They are, I believe, still of that opinion. We have made and we continue to make intense efforts to strengthen the political machinery of this system. We recognize today, as I think we have never recognized before, that the political and military-and too, the economic-are no longer separable. We must, therefore, it seems to me, make equally intense efforts to strengthen the military elements in this unique system into which has gone a century and a quarter of devoted effort.

No single United States act could be more calculated to provide this military strengthening than passage of that act at this session. Failure to do so in my opinion will result in rendering the mutual-defense pact when concluded gravely lacking in effectiveness in an emergency.

It is my deep conviction that passage of the Inter-American Military Cooperation Act by the Congress prior to adjournment at this session will contribute greatly to the security of the United States and the American Continents.

Chairman EATON. Thank you, General.

In your judgment, the passage of this act will not deteriorate the possibilities of success of the conference at Rio, but will advance it? General RIDGWAY. Greatly, I think, sir, because it will be an evidence of sincerity of purpose on our part to which we have pledged our faith for a very considerable period.

Chairman EATON. As I listened to your statement and that of the distinguished gentleman who preceded you, I felt very regretful that both of you are not Members of Congress, and the speed and directness with which you accomplish your objectives in your testimony would indicate some effect, in my judgment, of the jet propulsion.

I have no questions, except to say that I agree with you. I think this is the most important legislation that we face, and I cannot understand why people seem so indifferent, and particularly after the last two wars, to this situation.

I would like to talk to you some time about the relation of our Nation and Canada in all this, because I think Canada is extremely important as a frontier.

Thank you very much.

General RIDGWAY. I will be glad to speak with you on the subject at any time.

Chairman EATON. Mrs. Bolton.

Mrs. BOLTON. Would you tell us something of the personnel of the Inter-American Defense group of which you are a member?

General RIDGWAY. I might mention that the Board was created during the emergency meeting in Rio in January 1942, and the basic charter of the Board is a resolution passed at that meeting, which directed that a committee of military and naval technicians, representing the American republics, meet in Washington without delay to study and to recommend measures for the military defense of the continents.

It is composed now of, in the case of the larger countries, one representative for each of the air, ground, and sea forces. In the case of the smaller, they are represented by a single delegate.

Mrs. BOLTON. Are those meetings going on constantly?

General RIDGWAY. Yes; there are two plenary sessions each month, and then there are numerous committee meetings which are more or less continuous.

Mrs. BOLTON. Have there been a good many suggestions made?
General RIDGWAY. Very valuable ones.

Mrs. BOLTON. Have they resulted in action on the part of the various countries?

General RIDGWAY. Very constructive action. Of course, the function of this Board is purely advisory. It can propose measures to the governments which it represents.

Mrs. BOLTON. That is what I wanted to make clear.

Thank you; that is all.

Chairman EATON. Judge Kee.

Mr. KEE. This question of supplying arms and munitions of war to our South American neighbors has been heretofore discussed in this committee.

Practically every time the question has come up, some one has suggested that by supplying these arms to the people of the South American countries, we are likely to stir up an armaments race among the different nations of that section, or that the arms and munitions we supply may be taken over occasionally by revolutionists and we will thus start international difficulties down there.

The suggestion is then frequently made that by following a program of this kind, we are quite likely to stir up many difficulties and considerable trouble through South America.

Would you care to give us your views upon that phase of the situation?

General RIDGWAY. Yes, sir; gladly.

I do not personally anticipate that that creates any difficulty not now inherent in the situation there, sir.

I recall in the early part of this century, the United States had a policy which I believe was explicitly stated, that it would not recognize any government which came into power through the employment of force. Having served a short time after that in one of these countries on a quasimilitary diplomatic mission, I would hear the remarks, "If the United States adheres to such a policy, the people can never displace a dictator who has wrongfully and violently usurped power."

They did that with obsolete arms at that time, and the substitution of modern arms, certainly in no greater quantity, in exchange for these obsolete arms which we expect to take up by the intentions of this act, will, as far as I can see, in no way increase the disposition on anybody's part down there, to usurp power by violent means. He could have done it before, and he could do it now.

Just how that could be prevented, it seems to me, is one of the eternal human problems which will largely devolve upon the State Depart

ment.

It is my opinion that it will in no way increase an armament race or the disposition of those so inclined to violently usurp power. Mrs. DOUGLAS. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. KEE. I yield.

Mrs. DOUGLAS. It is not a question of usurping power, is it? We are going to sell arms to governments already in power.

We permit governments to replace old armaments with modern armaments which will make the armies of these governments more efficient and their striking force more potent.

That is the reason they want modern arms. Their ability therefore, to control the people who might resist the kind of government which they are now being given will be far greater than at the present time. Is that not what the people fear? Is that not the argument against this program?

General RIDGWAY. I think that is probably true, Mrs. Douglas, but the possession of arms by a government does not preclude the arising of a revolutionary movement where they take the arms away from the government in power.

Neither can we abridge the sovereignty of these governments by forbidding them from acquiring modern arms from some other source than our own.

There is no desire to increase the quantity of arms down there. Mrs. DOUGLAS. That is perfectly clear. They are going to get them some place and they might as well get them from us.

As I said yesterday, it is perfectly obvious what we get out of this program, but we are not going to sell our way of life to the people of the South American countries through a sale of arms but through the kind of programs that will help the people of these countries to fight disease and help them generally to achieve a higher standard of living.

If we are known only as the great country to the north which sells arms to a prospective government, which helps to further oppress the people, that is not going to make for confidence in us or create a feeling of respect for our country. I think that is something that we definitely have to face in this whole program if we are to avoid the greatest possible number of pitfalls.

The question is, do we fall into more pitfalls if we pass this legislation or if we do not pass it?

General RIDGWAY. I think the broader issue is the question of hemispheric defense. That is the basis of it.

To me, the whole question summarizes around this matter of strengthening a political system, the inter-American system. That is a primary cardinal policy of our country to which we have been devoted continually since the early part of the preceding century. A political system is no stronger in time of crisis than the military support which can be brought to bear to support it and this, in our opinion, is a most effective way to do it.

I do not believe the character of the armament in the possession of a government is a major determinant in the degree of oppression that government can impose upon its population. If a form of government has a certain type of armament, even though it is obsolete and intends to oppress its people and remain in power and divert the resources of that country to its own advantage, I do not think it makes much difference whether it is an 1879 gun or a 1941 gun. They will do it anyway. That is my personal opinion.

Mrs. DOUGLAS. Yes; I would just like to add to that, since we have so much of the armed forces here today, that in taking common sense measures to insure our safety in this period between war and the establishment of permanent peace, to which all men look in the world, we

e very sure, and certainly those of us here in Congress must be re, that we are not setting up the kind of defenses that will 1 the use of those defenses in another war. Do you see what

?

ral RIDGWAY. I do, indeed.

DOUGLAS. That the defenses themselves do not demand a folthrough of a kind of program that makes peace unattainable. ral RIDGWAY. Well, of course in a way the United States is a core of this. Certainly it is the most powerful in every way. for the United States, as this Government is now constituted, possible for it to embark on an aggressive war. The whole ry is defensive.

DOUGLAS. I am not talking about an aggressive war. I know d never make aggressive war, but we might help to create ns in the world which would lead everybody on the way to say that is the thing we must all be concerned with and vigilant o see that we do not do the very thing we want to avoid. al RIDGWAY. Yes.

DOUGLAS. I think there is that danger in this program with h American countries, and I think we have to recognize it nd frankly. There is a great possibility of falling into the that are inherent whenever you sell arms, and certainly when elling arms to countries that have oppressive governments. l RIDGWAY. If I may, I would like to make one more comment question, Mrs. Douglas.

we all in the War Department are fully cognizant of the portance of the economic factor in these things and of the need ation and public health and social welfare and all those other

ve that the facts will show that for any program which has saged or discussed in a very exploratory fashion so far, the of military equipment which we think will be sought for under vill represent a very small fraction of the annual budget of ries involved.

E. General, I do not know that I can intelligently pursue my ought. I have been somewhat sidetracked.

with you that we are not trying to sell these people our way selling them arms, or presenting them with arms. What ng, as I understand it, is to place these people in a condition y can defend their way of life against an aggressor or counalready possesses arms more effective than they now possess; as starting internal difficulties and revolutions. I can recall past, when many revolutions were won in South America etes and nothing else, and that would be done again, if each d machetes only; and if we place them all on a similar base, ink we increase the danger any more than it was years ago, had ineffective armaments.

hat is all, and I thank you.

in EATON. Mr. Judd.

D. I want to ask a question pursuing Mrs. Bolton's line of ith respect to the Inter-American Defense Board. Does rmination date? You said it was set up during 1942 during res of the war. Will it soon go out of existence?

General RIDGWAY. There is an indefinite termination, Mr. Judd. It provides it would continue in operation until its permanent military successor is created and it was anticipated that this action would be taken at the Rio conference.

Mr. JUDD. Its permanency hinges to some extent on the passage of this legislation?

General RIDGWAY. Well, the effective functioning of it is a direct factor.

Mr. JUDD. Without this it would be pretty much of a paper organization?

General RIDGWAY. It renders the Board largely valueless.

Mr. JUDD. Are all the Latin American countries represented on the Board?

General RIDGWAY. They are, sir.

Mr. JUDD. Every single one of them?

General RIDGWAY. All 21 American Republics are.

Mr. JUDD. Is Canada on the Board?

General RIDGWAY. No, sir; just the American Republics.

Mr. JUDD. But under this bill, if passed, Canada would be included. General RIDGWAY. It is equally applicable to Canada; yes, sir. Mr. JUDD. Would we want one set-up with Canada because it is to our north and another set-up with the countries to our south; should it not all be one hemispheric group?

General RIDGWAY. That is a political decision, sir. You will recall that not long ago, I think, Senator Vandenberg on the floor of the Senate suggested it was time for Canada to come into the InterAmerican system.

Mr. JUDD. This is under the Fan American Union?

General RIDGWAY. The Inter-American Defense Board is a semiautonomous body functioning under the auspices of the Governing Board of the Pan American Union.

Mr. JUDD. Canada could not come into this Board unless she joined the Pan American Union?

General RIDGWAY. That is correct, sir.

Mr. JUDD. General, I saw in the press recently some P-51's were released to some Latin-American countries.

Was that part of a systematic program, the program contemplated here, or was that an independent action?

General RIDGWAY. Subject to correction by the officers here present, who are more familiar with those details, it is part of the interim program for which authority already existed. A small amount of equipment was previously authorized for transfer under certain conditions, a very, very small amount, so much so as to be almost negligible, and I think that item to which you refer was included in that interim program.

Mr. JUDD. If this bill became law, what has already been sent would be included in the over-all plan?

General RIDGWAY. It would, sir.

Mr. JUDD. Under this bill there are three categories of arms to be furnished-our surplus arms and arms excess to our needs but not declared surplus, and then new arms, whatever they come and buy and pay for.