and the Maritime Commission and the Navy have broken out from time to time more tankers.

There is necessity to plan for the future. Our requirements are away in excess of what anyone has estimated. I have some figures which I will give you at any time you wish them, showing that situation; but our consumption of petroleum products is so great that we have an interest in the world's supply.

If I remember correctly, the areas of western Europe, involving 16 countries and Germany, take only about 15 percent of the amount of petroleum that we consume in this country, and the population is nearly double. Therefore you can see the overpowering position of the United States in the case of the petroleum products.

Mr. LODGE. What I was interested in particularly was the question of our own situation.

Secretary HARRIMAN. The immediate situation?

Mr. LODGE. Our own supplies in America, as they relate to the world supplies. It would be my desire to see to it that insofar as possible foreign supplies of petroleum rather than United States supplies were used.

Secretary HARRIMAN. I could not agree with you more, and that does require the exploring and expansion of the production in that area. We have American companies in Saudi Arabia, and I think the increased production there will be very helpful in preventing the drain on the supplies from the United States, and also in the Caribbean areas which are close at hand, and also requiring by European countries more tankers to transport that oil. Even today there is oil in the Abadan area which is not being shipped because of the shortage of tankers. It is a longer haul from Abadan to Europe along the Mediterranean, and they are limiting their business today to the Caribbean rather than Abadan, because of the tanker shortage, and we would be in a position to get that oil from the Abadan area if there were enough tankers now.

Mr. LODGE. I understand from your report that we import a certain part of our petroleum products and export a certain part. Secretary HARRIMAN. That is about in balance.

Mr. LODGE. In connection with the shortage of tankers, and instead of importing to America and exporting from America, which involves a double haul, is there any plan afoot to refine that oil on the spot in order to save shipping costs?

Secretary HARRIMAN. Of course, we have to deal with the existing facilities. I do not know exactly what development plans are under way for the expansion of production and refinery capacities in other countries.

Of course, we cannot look at petroleum as one commodity, because it is divided up into different refined products. We mentioned lubricating oil. We have in this country a surplus of lubricating oil; so we must deal with the specific commodity. If we did not import and refine in this country and export some products that were in excess of our demand, we would not have sometimes the refined products which we need here. It is a highly integrated international business, and we have an interest in the international situation as well as the domestic situation.

I agree fully with what you say. You have expresed my idea exactly.

Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Secretary, what is the relationship between your Department and the problem of strategic stock-piling?

Secretary HARRIMAN. We are in consultation; we have not any direct responsibility for it. We do limit, through export controls, strategic materials; but in the stock-piling process we are only consultatively involved.

Incidentally, I may say one of the recommendations the public committee of which I was chairman made, is that we should use the aid-to-Europe program to get them to develop their resources in their own countries or in their colonial or dependent possessions to increase their production so that they could help to fulfill our great need for a stock pile and, in that way, perhaps we can get some recovery from the advances we will be making.

I am reminded by Mr. Foster that we, of course, do control, under authority of Congress, rubber, tin, and antimony, and help to advise the Munitions Board as to when it is feasible in connection with our own economic needs to purchase for stock piling.

Mr. JACKSON. Is it possible and feasible, in your opinion to enter into a buyer-seller relationship with some of the nations involved in this program, either on an interim basis or long-range basis, for the delivery of such strategic materials as are currently in short supply, in return for some materials in this aid program, on a future-delivery basis as distinguished from a current-production basis?

Secretary HARRIMAN. I think it would be too early to consider it in connection with the interim aid because of the element of time; but I believe you have to consider it in the long-range program exactly as you have described-not for immediate delivery, because the strategic materials do not exist, but in order that they may develop their resources to create surpluses over what the world needs, and not currently, and to throw off enough so that we may be able to build up those stock piles which are so essential not only to furnish our strategic needs, but also to protect our own economy and be sure we have enough. We should, of course, take those strategic materials, sterilize them, and save them for emergency purposes and not use them when there is a plentiful supply.

Mr. JACKSON. Your idea is that there should be a long-range development program for the greater utilization of the resources in the countries concerned or their possessions?

Secretary HARRIMAN. Yes. Bear in mind you could not put that pressure on them when they are trying to recover their own balance; but I do believe some arrangements should be made so that they can make this expansion at the proper time and for future delivery.

Mr. JACKSON. Would you agree that long-range contracts for delivery in the future, as made possible by such possible developments, would handicap their economic recovery today?

Secretary HARRIMAN. I think if we asked them to take their resources of steel and machinery, which are needed to increase their current production at home, then you would interfere with their recovery program. But it seems to me you could make agreements that, as they are able to do so, they should use their resources to undertake these developments and delivery at a future time. Whether it can be determined exactly in the form of a contract or agreement in principle is a question I cannot answer today, and it does require more study than I think either we or the countries involved are able to make in the immediate future, because much of this requires exploration. There are certain areas, I understand, where it is known there

are deposits; but, before they could make definite commitments, they would have to do some exploration.

Mr. JACKSON. One final question, touching on the questions asked by Mr. Javits relative to the interference by the United States with the free political decisions of the people of western Europe. Mr. Javits' questions touched largely on the socialistic state.

What would be the position of the United States in the program of economic aid should any one or more of the recipient nations come within the political or military orbit of the Soviet Union?

Secretary HARRIMAN. I would then lose interest in it as to that particular country and deal with them as we are dealing with the other countries. We must recognize, however, that certain of those countries would have liked to have come in and worked with us, but that permission was refused by the Kremlin. And I think we ought always to be ready to work with the countries of eastern Europe when they get themselves freed from the domination of the Kremlin and must always hold out a friendly hand, because that is the way we feel about it. We have a great feeling of friendship for the peoples of Poland, Hungary, and Rumania, who are very friendly to us and who have been forced into the iron vise against their will."

Mr. JACKSON. Would it be your thought that such economic aid as we might render should be continued under such circumstances?

Secretary HARRIMAN. I have expressed my personal opinion on that. I would lose interest in it.

Mr. MALONEY. Mr. Secretary, could you tell us generally what materials, if any, are being exported from the United States to Russia today?

Secretary HARRIMAN. I have some figures on that, if you want to go into detail. There is a control on the shipments to Russia of those commodities that are in our export licensing lists. There is no control over the shipments to Russia of those that are not.

Now, I want to state we have attempted to keep under control the most vital of the commodities and supplies and equipment that are in short supply in this country. Unfortunately-and I am not stating this as a complaint, but simply as a fact-we have not enough money to cover any further items and do a reasonable job. All Government controls are an inconvenience to business activity, and we have felt we must do a good job on those areas where we do control; otherwise, the delays will make business so difficult that it interferes with expansion opportunities. So at the present time wherever the Soviet Government, in those areas where we are not controlling it, can find supplies in this country and where they can afford to pay for them, those supplies are going forward.

Mr. MALONEY. Could we get a list of those articles, Mr. Secretary? Secretary HARRIMAN. We can give you a list. It would take me more than 5 minutes to describe them, but I have the summaries here with me and would be glad to give them to you.

Mr. MALONEY. I think they should be handed up instead of giving them to me verbally.

Chairman EATON. Shall we put those in the record for the use of

all?

Mr. MALONEY. Yes.

Secretary HARRIMAN. Perhaps I will assemble them and give them to your staff in a form that will be of interest to you.

Mr. MALONEY. Thank you.

Secretary HARRIMAN. You wish them for the Soviet Union?

Mr. MALONEY. I would like them in the record at this point. (The information referred to is as follows:)

United States trade with U. S. S. R., by commodity groups and principal commodities, 1938 9-month average and January to September 1947

This total and commodity detail includes lend-lease, relief and commercial shipments.

2 Mainly, tushonka, sausage, and port.

Mainly electrodes for furnace or electrolytic work.

4 Mainly steam and Diesel locomotives.

Includes "private relief" shipments shown above.

Imports for consumption in 1938.

'Mainly squirrel, marmot, and hare.

Includes some goat and kidskin furs in 1938.

X= Less than $50,000.

Source: Special Programs Division, Areas Branch, Office of International Trade, Department of Com

merce, November 1947.

TABLE I.-Monthly shipments of lend-lease and relief supplies from the United States to U. S. S. R. in 1947

1 Title to these exports was transferred before Jan. 10, 1947, under loan agreement; shipments were delayed awaiting Russian transportation arrangements.

?Shipments after Mar. 31, 1947, the cut-off date for United States contributions, include supplies delivered to UNRRA previous to that date but awaiting shipment, and subsequent purchases made with funds available to UNRRA not subject to United States control.

X-Less than $50,000.

TABLE II.-United States exports to and imports from U. S. S. R., annual 1936–38, average and 1941-46 and January to September 1947

1 Represents total exports, excluding lend-lease and relief shipments.

Source: Special Programs Division, Areas Branch, Office of International Trade, Department of Com merce, November 1947.

Value of United States exports to U. S. S. R. in 1938 and 1947, and value in 1947 adjusted to 1936-38 dollars

1 Index of unit value of total United States exports of finished manufactures.

Source: Special Programs Division, Areas Branch, Office of International Trade, Department of Commerce, November 1947.