Mr. VELDE. Do you know whether or not he is still interested in the Communist Party?

Mr. DARE. I do not, because I have not discussed-as a matter of fact, ever since then I have-incidentally, I had not seen him from the time "Meet the People" closed in 1950, and I saw him at that time; and, of course, I never discussed politics with him.

Mr. VELDE. What was his occupation in 1950?

Mr. DARE. He was engaged on a committee that was producing a show for the Actors' Lab.

Mr. VELDE. Do you know where he is at the present time?
Mr. DARE. No, sir; I haven't seen him since then.

Mr. DOYLE. May I ask a question?

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Doyle.

Mr. DOYLE. You stated it was a financial success, this "Meet the People." In what terms do you refer to it as a monetary success? How many thousand dollars' profit, for instance, if you have ever heard or knew?

Mr. DARE. Gosh, I couldn't say. I know it made a couple of thousand dollars a week for a long period of time. It went on the road.

Mr. DOYLE. For 6 months or a year?

Mr. DARE. For a year.

Mr. DOYLE. A couple of thousand a week?

Mr. DARE. I actually couldn't be sure. I don't want to name any great sum and then find out I was wrong. I know it made money, and I know it made fairly important money. And, in all fairness, a lot of it was used. There were a lot of people working around. Whether they needed them or not, I don't know, but they were people who would be paid.

Mr. DOYLE. Thank you.

Mr. DARE. But there was money made.

Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Moulder.

Mr. MOULDER. Through the course of your testimony you have given as reasons for your decisions and actions that it was because of your attitude on the issue of anti-Semitism. The question I am about to ask you has no reflection on you or to determine the issue-I ask you, are you of Jewish heritage?

Mr. DARE. Yes.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Frazier?

Mr. FRAZIER. You stated that you were a member of the Communist Party some years ago.

Mr. DARE. Yes, sir.

Mr. VELDE. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. DARE. I was in for approximately 2 or 3 months and have been out since then.

Mr. FRAZIER. Now, the first faction that you belonged to consisted of 5 or 6 persons, of which Mr. White seems to have been the moving spirit. Since your withdrawal have you had any contacts with the other members of that group?

Mr. DARE. No.

Mr. VELDE. Any association?

Mr. DARE. The people were never friends of mine, including the people who were in the Hollywood Theater Alliance, were never my social friends. Tanya Tuttle and

(At this point Mr. Dare conferred with Mr. Gang and others.)

Mr. DARE. And Mr. White had something to do with a show at the Actors' Lab, which I directed in 1950, early 1950.

Mr. FRAZIER. Do you know of your own knowledge whether these persons that you have mentioned are still members of the Communist Party?

Mr. DARE. The persons I have mentioned?

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes.

Mr. DARE. No; I wouldn't have known ever since then, because once I just stopped going-I went to 2 meetings that I can recall, but I am sure that I went to 1, 2, or 3 more, and I was just bored. I couldn't sit around and listen to a lot of talk that I didn't understand. I was just interested in doing something to fight Mr. Hitler. I just stopped going, and I was asked by Mr. White about going to a meeting, and I said, "I'm too nervous. I just can't sit around, and I don't know what you are talking about." Since that time no one has ever told me anything officially about the Communist Party nor have I ever discussed any official business of the Communist Party with them.

Mr. FRAZIER. What year was it when you withdrew your active part?

Mr. DARE. I was in from around March 1939 to around May 1939, which may explain the fact that I was unaware of things happening around the Hollywood Theater Alliance. I had already been out before the show went into its rehearsal. Therefore, I guess I wasn't taken into confidence and given the reasons why certain materials should be in the show at the time.

Mr. FRAZIER. Thank you very much.

Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Dare, since you severed your connection with the Communist Party, have you attended any functions of the party? Mr. DARE. By "functions" you mean

Mr. JACKSON. Have you attended any meetings of the Communist Party?

Mr. DARE. Oh, never.

Mr. JACKSON. Have you participated in any activities of any Communist-front organizations?

Mr. DARE. Not knowingly, at least, to my knowledge.

Mr. JACKSON. Without your personal knowledge at the time, have you subsequently discovered that you have participated in Communistfront organizations or have had any activity whatever in any organization which has been proscribed as "Communist front"?

Mr. DARE. I may have gone to some of the so-called parties around town during the run of Meet the People, which maybe was raising funds from refugees from Russia, or whatever it was, or Nazi Germany.

I wouldn't want to say "I didn't" unless I was pretty sure I didn't. Mr. JACKSON. Your last association with the Actors' Laboratory was in 1950, I understand.

Mr. DARE. Yes.

Mr. JACKSON. The Actors' Laboratory was proscribed as a Communist front by the California Committee on Un-American Activities in their 1947 report, page 74. What was the nature of your work at the laboratory in 1950?

Mr. DARE. I would like to preface that by saying that, having lost all interest in so-called leftists, I did not follow the committee's hearings, many committee hearings. I did not keep up with what was considered "Communist front" or wasn't.

By early 1950 I again had been unemployed for about a year and a half or more, and Eddie Eliscu and Henry Meyers came to me and said that the Actors' Laboratory wanted to do a show and would I direct it. Not being employed and thinking of it as strictly a commercial venture, I signed a contract to do this show, which I did. Mr. JACKSON. Who produced this show?

Mr. DARE. I think it was the Actors' Lab.

Mr. JACKSON. Who directed it?

Mr. DARE. Or a committee from the Actors' Laboratory.

Mr. JACKSON. Who directed the show?

Mr. DARE. I did.

Mr. JACKSON. You directed it?

Mr. DARE. Yes, sir.

Mr. JACKSON. Was Morris Carnovsky in any way associated with the production?

Mr. DARE. Yes, sir.

Mr. JACKSON. What was his capacity?

Mr. DARE. I first met Mr. Carnovsky when I agreed to do the show. They said, "You will have to meet with the committee that is producing it," and this was the first time I met with Mr. Carnovsky, so far as I know. He was on the committee that was producing the show.

Mr. JACKSON. Were you also associated with Albert Maltz in the production of this show?

Mr. DARE. I do not know Mr. Albert Maltz.

Mr. JACKSON. My understanding was that you had mentioned having met him or having last seen him at the Actors' Lab.

Mr. DARE. Oh, no. The only time I mentioned him was in connection with the fact that the Hollywood Theater Alliance produced a play of his, which I had nothing to do with. I was not on the committee that produced that play.

Mr. TAVENNER. That was the play entitled "Zero Hour"?

Mr. DARE. That is correct.

Mr. JACKSON. Did you know, at the time of your association with the Actors' Laboratory in 1950 or several years after its citation as a Communist venture or a Red front, that Mr. Carnovsky had been identified as a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. DARE. No; I didn't.

Mr. JACKSON. Over how long a period of time have you had consecutive residence in the Los Angeles area?

Mr. DARE. Consecutive?

Mr. JACKSON. Consecutive residence, allowing for short trips to New York or elsewhere.

Mr. DARE. From 1937 to 1950, and then I went to New York for a year and a half, and then back here.

Mr. JACKSON. During that period of time you had no specific knowledge as to the identity of the witnesses before this committee or other duly constituted agencies of Government or of the nature of the testimony they had given?

Mr. DARE. Not specifically. I was in New York for a year and a half, and of course the newspapers there don't report daily as they do here when the meetings are held here. Actually, I did not follow the meetings of the investigation closely.

Mr. JACKSON. I find that I am in error, and I should like to correct the record. The identification of Mr. Carnovsky, I am told, was in 1951.

Mr. DARE. I still don't know it.

Mr. JACKSON. Are you now prepared to state, Mr. Dare, under the compulsion of your oath, that you have given the committee all of the information in your possession with reference to the meetings you attended and those who attended the meetings who were known to you to be members of the Communist Party?

Mr. DARE. To the best of my knowledge, with one exception, which I have been prepared to name, but we skipped over that part of the story. I remember a fellow by the name of Kelly Glickman attending one meeting.

Mr. JACKSON. Aside from the ones you have already named, you have no personal knowledge of any other members of the Communist Party during the period of time you were in the party?

Mr. DARE. To the best of my knowledge, no, and I do not remember attending the so-called fraction meeting at which I was named. I remember attending a meeting of the Hollywood Theater Alliance to discuss Mr. Berkeley's play Abraham Lincoln, but as I remember it, it took place in the upper lobby of what was then known as the Music Box Theater, and I do not recall-as a matter of fact, I hardly know Ed Chodorov or George Sklar, and I am positive I have been at no meetings with them, not only Communist meetings, but almost any kind of a meeting.

Mr. JACKSON. You have never attended a meeting in company with any other person or persons whose names you have not given to the committee this morning?

Mr. DARE. That is true, except as I said, the first meeting that I went to must have had about 30 people, and I am sure that the 6 I was later identified with were at that meeting, but who the other people were I couldn't say. I don't remember.

Mr. WALTER. With whom did you go to the first meeting?

Mr. DARE. Mr. White.

Mr. DOYLE. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question here?

Mr. VELDE. Yes, Mr. Doyle.

Mr. DOYLE. I think you said when you were in New York this newspaper was brought to you showing that you had been named by Mr. Berkeley and you said, "I thought I could brazen it out." What did you mean by that? Brazen out what?

Mr. DARE. Well, in the first place, I didn't remember Mr. Berkeley from our party, and still don't, and had been so involved in such a short time I just thought that I could say I wasn't and get away with it. Of course, I didn't know at that time, I didn't realize the seriousness of perjury in front of this committee. I was just thinking of myself and my family, in trying to protect them, and I did the stupid thing on the spur of the moment.

Mr. DOYLE. You have just stated with reference to your perjury, and I think that it is clear that you did tell a falsehood in connection

with your not having been a member of the Communist Party, and you now say you were.

Mr. DARE. That is true.

Mr. DOYLE. In other words, it is true that you told a falsehood.
Mr. DARE. That is true.

Mr. DOYLE. Now, let me ask you this: You know it is a standing offer of this committee, this committee often urges men and women who have been Communists or who are Communists to come forward and volunteer whatever the truth is about their connection with the Communist conspiracy. You know that is true, don't you?

Mr. DARE. Yes.

Mr. DOYLE. Now, what can this committee do, if anything, in your judgment, to actively make it more known or more widely known that there is that standing offer by this committee to have American citizens who want to clean up their back connection with the Communist conspiracy, subversive conspiracy? What can we do, if anything, in your judgment, to get more cooperation from men and women who wish to help in our national security against subversive communism? Have you any suggestions?

Mr. DARE. I feel sure, for instance, that had I been approached by an investigator for the committee privately and said, "Look, here is the situation: So and so is going to name you; what about it?" I might not have gotten scared and panicky and probably would have cooperated fully from the first, which I am glad I am doing now.

Mr. DOYLE. Of course, we don't have enough employees. We don't have a staff numerically strong enough to send all over the country to tell these people that they have been named.

Mr. DARE. I realize that.

Mr. DOYLE. You realize that.

Mr. DARE. I realize that; yes.

Mr. DOYLE. Therefore it couldn't be that kind of a program, but is there any inducement, any honest, fair, just inducement that we could make to former Communists or present Communists in this country who want to clean up their conspiratorial record, to come clean and help protect our Nation against this subversive conspiracy? Have you any suggestions?

Mr. DARE. Well, to me, it would depend a little on how deeply anyone was involved. Had I known the treatment that I would have received from this committee, as I have subsequently learned—incidentally, this was the thing that made me change my mind. I had visions of being persecuted and everybody being down my throat. Mr. DOYLE. You have been, haven't you?

Mr. DARE. Well, no.

Mr. DOYLE. You don't mean you have been persecuted? I thought you had been.

Mr. DARE. Well, I don't think so. As a matter of fact, when I engaged counsel and he put me in touch with the investigator for the committee and certain other people in Hollywood who were trying to tell people who may be accused falsely and I saw the reception I got and the kindness and consideration with which I was treated and that they were honestly trying to help me, I thought I was doing justice, not only to them but to myself and my family, and I said, "Well, look; let's face it, and this is the truth. You have been nice to me and I can't double-cross you and put you out on a limb for me."