INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA-Part 2 FRIDAY, MARCH 27, 1953 UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, PUBLIC HEARING Los Angeles, Calif. The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10:10 a. m., in room 518, Federal Building, Hon. Harold H. Velde (chairman) presiding. Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde (chairman), Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E. Walter, Morgan M. Moulder, Clyde Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr. Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis J. Russell, chief investigator; Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk; Raphael I. Nixon, director of research; and William A. Wheeler, investigator. Mr. VELDE. The committee will be in order. Let the record show that a full quorum of the committee is present. Mr. Counsel, do you have a witness? Mr. TAVENNER. Yes. Mr. LeRoy Herndon. Mr. VELDE. In the testimony you are about to give before this committee, do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. HERNDON. I do. TESTIMONY OF LEROY TRAVERS HERNDON, JR. Mr. TAVENNER. What is your name, please, sir? Mr. HERNDON. H-e-r-n-d-o-n. Mr. TAVENNER. When and where were you born? Mr. HERNDON. In Gonzales, Calif., September 1, 1906. Mr. HERNDON. I am a teacher. Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee briefly what your formal educational training has been? Mr. HERNDON. I graduated from Stanford University, January of 1927. I did my graduate work there that same year, finished my graduate work there. I went to the 1928 summer session at Stanford. In 1935 I attended the University of New Mexico summer session. In 1937, summer session at Stanford. 1949, 1950, and 1951, sùmmer sessions at the University of Southern California. Mr. TAVENNER. Where do you now reside? Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee how you have been employed since the beginning of your professional career? Mr. HERNDON. In 1927-28 I taught in the Orosi Union High School. In 1929 and 1930-I had better put something else in there. In 1928 and 1929 I traveled in Europe. I was in Spain for 4 months and I had 2 jobs there. I worked for the Ford Motor Co. in their assembly plant in the daytime and taught English at night. Coming back to the United States I taught in the Sacramento Junior College the year of 1929 and 1930. Since 1930 I have been at Glendale College, except for 3 I was absent on military leave. years when Mr. TAVENNER. What years were you absent on military leave? Mr. HERNDON. From September 1952 unitl October 1945. Mr. TAVENNER. Are you accompanied by counsel? Mr. HERNDON. No, sir. Mr. TAVENNER. You are aware of the fact, are you not, that you are entitled to counsel at any time during the course of your interrogation? Mr. HERNDON. Yes. Mr. TAVENNER. Professor Herndon, it has come to the attention of the committee, through several sources, that you were at one time a member of the Communist Party. Is that correct? Mr. HERNDON. That is. I was. Mr. TAVENNER. Over how long a period of time were you a member of the Communist Party? Mr. HERNDON. I thought it was 2 years, but I just this morning at 5 o'clock finally realized it was from the fall of 1937 until the fall of 1940, so that makes 3 years. Mr. TAVENNER. Since 1940 have you been associated in any way with the Communist Party or the activities of the Communist Party? Mr. HERNDON. Not officially, not socially, not in interest, not in any way. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Counsel, I interrupt at this point. It is apparent that the witness is going to give certain information. The committee has need to go into executive session to determine the future conduct of the committee hearings, and in view of the large number of witnesses that we have subpenaed, I now will appoint Mr. Clardy of Michigan as chairman of the subcommittee consisting of himself and Mr. Scherer of Ohio to continue with this hearing, and the remainder of the committee will go into executive session. Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Herndon, let's start your testimony with the very inception of your Communist Party membership. Mr. HERNDON. Do you want me to tell you why I joined? Mr. TAVENNER. Yes; including all the circumstances under which you became a member and any facts that you have in mind leading up to your membership in the party, because before your testimony is completed I think the committee would like to know all the circumstances under which you became a member and all the circumstances under which you left the party. Mr. HERNDON. Before I answer that question specifically and directly, would it be possible for me to answer it rather generally? Mr. TAVENNER. Yes. Mr. HERNDON. I think I have learned a little bit at a rather heavy price from my association with the Communist Party. Many people still believe anyone who has been a Communist is a traitor, and many people think that the Communists preach overthrowing the Government by force and violence, and I think the Communists are highly dangerous just because they soft-pedal and conceal and try to explain away their ultimate ends. If the Communist Party were to openly preach the sort of murder and theft that their theories will result in, they would have even a very much smaller fractional membership than the small membership they now have. I think that the Communists pick every possible kind of trustworthy cause to use as bait. In my unhappy experience every one of the good and trustworthy causes which the Communists have espoused has concealed a hook, a very deviously and cleverly concealed hook, and in my case the hook that caught me was the Spanish Republic. Mr. TAVENNER. Was what? Mr. HERNDON. Was the Spanish Republic. I am a Spanish teacher. I read the newspapers in Mexico at the time of the Spanish War during the summer of 1936, and the newspapers in Mexico during the Spanish War treated it as if it were more important than the newspapers here. They regarded the Spanish War as somewhat dangerous to the safety of the world, the Western Hemisphere included. In many cases I thought that most of the American newspapers were underplaying it, and the only people that were making it known here were the Communists, and I was reading at that time the British papers, French, Spanish, Mexican, Cuban, anything I could lay my hands on, and finally, unfortunately, I got my hands on some Communist publications, and they were working for the Spanish Republic.. I thought the safety of the Spanish Republic, which was being attacked by the Fascists, was vital to the United States. I thought that our policy was rather suicidal in reference to abandoning the Spanish Republic. I was interested in these people who I thought were clearly presenting what might be the unhappy consequences of abandoning the Spanish Republic. So, unfortunately, I became more and more interested in the Communists who I thought were doing good work. It wasn't until long after I left the party that I saw the hook in it, that the Communists were interested in the Spanish Republic, I believe now, not for the preservation of the Spanish, but so that they could take it over as a Communist country after the wreckage of the civil war. I thought that they were interested in defeating the enemies of the Spanish Republic, but I believe now that they were interested in it so that they could take over the country as a Communist country after the wreckage of it by the civil war. Mr. CLARDY. In other words, there was a hook even in that. Mr. HERNDON. I believe so. But it wasn't until after I left the party that I was able to figure that out by continuously reading all I could lay my hands on as to what had happened. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, will you tell the committee, please, how your interests in the Spanish Republic finally led you into the Communist Party? Mr. HERNDON. I thought the Communists at the time were doing a great deal by way of propaganda and explanation and really straight news reporting to give the truth about what was happening in the Spanish Republic. I think they shaded the truth now a little bit, but they were giving a great deal more of what later turned out to be the truth than the immediate communications at the time. I thought if they were right on that and right on saying that Hitler-of course, at that time many people thought Hitler was a funny man with a mustache, like Mr. Chaplin, and I thought he was a grave danger and the Communists had been screaming that for some time. They also thought that it was extremely dangerous that the Japanese were invading China. They were more or less right on that. They concealed a hook in both of those cases, also. I wondered if they were right in those cases, and thought that if they were right in those cases, they might be right in other things. I was interested to find out what they stood for. I had to go inside the party to find out what they did stand for. I think I could have stayed out and perhaps taken a little longer and become disillusioned without having to take the step of joining the party, but I did take that step. Mr. TAVENNER. Just what steps did you take in getting into the party? Mr. HERNDON. I was in San Francisco. There was a girl I knew slightly. I asked her if she knew any way I could make contact with the Communist Party. I didn't think of going to their headquarters for some reason or other. She said she might know someone in San Francisco who might know someone in Los Angeles who might get in touch with me. I returned to Los Angeles. Some time later I received a telephone `call to come to a certain address in Los Angeles at a certain time. I went there. I met a man who introduced himself to me as Sidney Freeman. I am not quite sure of that name. I don't know if it is a real name or an alias. He asked me why I wanted to get into the Communist Party. I told him on account of Spain, and he handed me a membership card and I signed it. Mr. TAVENNER. Were you assigned to any particular group of the Communist Party after becoming a member? Mr. HERNDON. Yes, sir. I was immediately assigned to the teachers' unit of the Hollywood Professional Section. Mr. TAVENNER. To the teachers' unit of the Hollywood Professional Section of the Communist Party? Mr. HERNDON. Yes. Mr. TAVENNER. Now, when you were given that assignment were you at the Communist Party headquarters in Los Angeles? Mr. HERNDON. No. Mr. TAVENNER. Where were you? Mr. HERNDON. A person who was a member of the unit called me and told me where the next meeting would be, and I was to appear at the next meeting of the unit. Mr. TAVENNER. Who called upon you and gave you that information? Mr. HERNDON. Richard Byrd Lewis. Mr. TAVENNER. Do you know what Mr. Lewis' occupation was at that time? Mr. HERNDON. He was a teacher. Mr. TAVENNER. Where, at what institution? Mr. HERNDON. In Glendale College. Mr. TAVENNER. What college? Mr. HERNDON. In Glendale College. Mr. TAVENNER. Now, when was it, as nearly as you can recall? Mr. HERNDON. This was sometime in the fall of 1937. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, as a result of that information, did you attend a meeting of the teachers' unit? Mr. HERNDON. I did. Mr. TAVENNER. Where was the meeting held? Mr. HERNDON. I cannot now remember. I have tried time and again. I know the section of the city, but I can't find the street. I have been by there trying to find the place. Mr. TAVENNER. How long did you remain a member of that particular unit, the teachers' unit of the professional group of the Communist Party? Mr. HERNDON. I don't know, and I have tried to remember that. I must have left sometime in 1940, in the winter or spring of 1940. Mr. TAVENNER. Then during that period of time you became very familiar with the activities of that group? Mr. HERNDON. Yes. Mr. TAVENNER. How many persons composed the group? Mr. HERNDON. I could remember 12 names and I think that is about it, but some people left and other people came in later, perhaps 8 or 10 at the time at the most. Mr. TAVENNER. Were these persons representatives from different educational institutions or where they all from one educational institution? Mr. HERNDON. They were individuals from various educational institutions. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, let us try to get clear at this point just what the Communist Party organization was within the teaching profession. Can you give me information as to other Communist Party groups within the teaching profession in addition to the one that you were in? Mr. HERNDON. I know of no other teachers' unit, not directly or by hearsay, in Los Angeles. At that time the various professions were not-or at that time the professional people in the Communist Party were organized by professions so that there would be a teachers' unit and perhaps some other units. There were motion picture units. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, this particular unit of the Communist Party within the teaching profession covered what general territory or area? Mr. HERNDON. Los Angeles and its surroundings. I think Lewis and I were the only people who were not in the Los Angeles public schools, the only two. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, were the rest of the members from any particular public school or from the public schools generally? |