that title to such site is or will be vested solely in the applicant, (4) reasonable assurance that adequate financial support will be available for the construction of the project and for its maintenance and operation when completed, and (5) reasonable assurance that the rates of pay for laborers and mechanics engaged in construction of the project will be not less than the prevailing local wage rates for similar work as determined in accordance with Public Law 403 of the Seventyfourth Congress, approved August 30, 1935, as amended. The Commissioner shall approve such application if sufficient funds to pay the Federal share of the cost of construction of such project are available from the allotment to the State, and if the Commissioner finds (A) that the application contains such reasonable assurance as to title, financial support, and payment of prevailing rates of wages, (B) that the plans and specifications are in accord with the regulations prescribed pursuant to section 42, (C) that the application is in conformity with the State plan approved under section 43 and contains an assurance that the applicant will conform to the applicable requirements of the State plan and of the regulations prescribed pursuant to section 42 (d) regarding the provision of facilities without discrimination on account of race, creed, or color and an assurance that the applicant will conform to State standards for operation and maintenance, and (D) that it has been approved and recommended by the State agency and is entitled to priority over other projects within the State in accordance with the regulations prescribed pursuant to section 42 (b). No application shall be disapproved until the Commissioner has afforded the State agency an opportunity for a hearing.

(b) For the purposes of this title the amount of the Federal share of the cost of construction of a project shall be determined by the Commissioner on the basis of need, but in no case shall be less than 40 per centum nor more than 90 per centum of such cost. The application submitted under this section with respect to a project shall be accompanied by such information, and such certifications as to need for Federal funds, as the Commissioner shall by regulations require.

(c) Upon approving an application under this section, the Commissioner shall certify to the Secretary of the Treasury an amount equal to the Federal share of the estimated cost of construction of the project and designate the appropriation from which it is to be paid. Such certification shall provide for payment to the State, except that if the State is not authorized by law to make payments to the applicant the certification shall provide for payment direct to the applicant. Upon certification by the State agency, based upon inspection by it, that work has been performed upon a project, or purchases have been made, in accordance with the approved plans and specifications, and that payment of an installment is due to the applicant, the Commissioner shall certify such installment for payment by the Secretary of the Treasury; except that if the Commissioner, after investigation or otherwise, has ground to believe that a default has occurred requiring action pursuant to section 51 (a) he may, upon giving notice of hearing pursuant to such subsection, withhold certification pending action based on such hearing.

(d) Amendment of any approved application shall be subject to approval in the same manner as an original application. Certification under subsection (c) may be amended, either upon approval of an amendment of the application or upon revision of the estimated cost of a project. An amended certification may direct that any additional payment be made from the applicable allotment for the fiscal year in which such amended certification is made.

(e) The funds paid under this section for the construction of an approved project shall be used solely for carrying out such project as so approved.

(f) If any school for which funds have been paid under this section shall, at any time within twenty years after the completion of construction, be sold or transferred to any person, agency, or organization, (1) which is not qualified to file an application under this section, or (2) which is not approved as a transferee by the State agency designated pursuant to section 43 (a) (1), or its successor, the United States shall be entitled to recover from either the transferor or the transferee an amount bearing the same ratio to the then value of the school as the Federal share bore to the cost of construction at the time the Federal share was paid, as determined by agreement of the parties or by action brought in the district court of the United States for the district in which such school is situated.

TITLE V-MISCELLANEOUS

WITHHOLDING OF CERTIFICATION

SEC. 51. (a) Whenever the Commissioner, after reasonable notice and opportunity for hearing to the State agency designated in accordance with section 32 (a) (1), finds that the State agency is not complying substantially with the

provisions required by section 32 (a) to be contained in its application for funds under title III, or after reasonable notice and opportunity for hearing to the State agency designated in accordance with section 43 (a) (1) finds (1) that the State agency is not complying substantially with the provisions required by section 43 (a), or by regulations prescribed pursuant to section 42, to be contained in its plan submitted under section 43 (a), or (2) that any funds have been diverted from the purposes for which they have been allotted or paid, or (3) that any assurance given in an application filed under section 45 is not being or cannot be carried out, or (4) that there is a substantial failure to carry out plans and specifications approved by the Commissioner under section 45, the Commissioner may forthwith notify the Secretary of the Treasury and the State agency that no further certification will be made under title III or title IV, as the case may be, or that no further certification will be made for any project or projects designated by the Commissioner as being affected by the default, as the Commissioner may determine to be appropriate under the circumstances; and, except with regard to any project for which the application has already been approved and which is not directly affected by such default, he may withhold further certifications until there is no longer any failure to comply, or, if compliance is impossible, until the State repays or arranges for the repayment of Federal moneys which have been diverted or improperly expended.

(b) (1) If the Commissioner refuses to approve any application under section 45, the State agency through which the application was submitted, or if any State is dissatisfied with the Commissioner's action under subsection (a) of this section, such State may appeal to the United States circuit court of appeals for the circuit in which such State is located. The summons and notice of appeal may be served at any place in the United States. The Commissioner shall forthwith certify and file in the court the transcript of the proceedings and the record on which he based his action.

(2) The findings of fact by the Commissioner, unless substantially contrary to the weight of the evidence, shall be conclusive; but the court, for good cause shown, may remand the case to the Commissioner to take further evidence, and the Commissioner may thereupon make new or modified findings of fact and may modify his previous action, and shall certify to the court the transcript and record of the further proceedings. Such new or modified findings of fact shall likewise be conclusive unless substantially contrary to the weight of the evidence.

(3) The court shall have jurisdiction to affirm the action of the Commissioner or to set it aside, in whole or in part. The judgment of the court shall be subject to review by the Supreme Court of the United States upon certiorari or certification as provided in sections 239 and 240 of the Judicial Code, as amended.

FEDERAL SCHOOL COUNCIL; ADMINISTRATION OF ACT

SEC. 52. (a) The Commissioner is authorized to make such administrative regulations and perform such other functions as he finds necessary to carry out the provisions of this Act. Any such regulations shall be subject to the approval of the Administrator.

(b) In administering this Act, the Commissioner shall consult with a Federal School Council consisting of the Commissioner, who shall serve as Chairman ex officio, and eight members appointed by the Administrator. The eight appointed members shall be persons who are outstanding in fields pertaining to education and at least four of such appointed members shall be persons familiar with the need for school facilities in urban or rural areas. Each appointed member shall hold office for a term of four years, except that any member appointed to fill a vacancy occuring prior to the expiration of the term for which his predecessor was appointed shall be appointed for the remainder of such term, and the terms of office of the members first taking office shall expire, as designated by the Administrator at the time of appointment, two at the end of the first year, two at the end of the second year, two at the end of the third year, and two at the end of the fourth year after the date of appointment. An appointed member shall not be eligible to serve continuously for more than two terms but shall be eligible for reappointment if he has not served immediately preceding his reappointment. The Council is authorized to appoint such special advisory and technical committees as may be useful in carrying out its functions. Appointed Council members and members of advisory or technical committees, while serving on business of the Council, shall receive compensation at rates fixed by the Administrator, but not exceeding $50 per day, and shall also be entitled to receive an allowance for actual and necessary travel and subsistence expenses while so serving away from their

place of residence. The Council shall meet as frequently as the Commissioner deems necessary, but not less than once each year. Upon request by three or more members, it shall be the duty of the Commissioner to call a meeting of the Council.

(c) In administering the provisions of this Act, the Commissioner, with the approval of the Administrator, is authorized to utilize the services and facilities of any executive department in accordance with an agreement with the head thereof. Payment for such services and facilities shall be made in advance or by way of reimbursement, as may be agreed upon between the Administrator and the head of the executive department furnishing them.

CONFERENCES OF STATE AGENCIES

SEC. 53. Whenever in his opinion the purposes of this Act would be promoted by a conference, the Commissioner may invite representatives of as many State agencies, designated in accordance with section 32 (a) (1) or section 43 (a) (1), to confer as he deems necessary or proper. Upon the application of five or more of such State agencies, it shall be the duty of the Commissioner to call a conference of representatives of all State agencies joining in the request. A conference of the representatives of all such State agencies shall be called annually by the Commissioner.

STATE CONTROL OF OPERATIONS

SEC. 54. Except as otherwise specifically provided, nothing in this Act shall be construed as conferring on any Federal officer or employee the right to exercise any supervision or control over the administration, personnel, maintenance, or operation of any school with respect to which any funds have been or may be expended under this Act.

Senator HUMPHREY. I think my good friend, the Senator from Virginia, Willis Robertson, has been waiting to testify, and we are very happy to hear your testimony. Go right ahead, Senator.

STATEMENT OF HON. A. WILLIS ROBERTSON, A UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF VIRGINIA

Senator ROBERTSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I am advocating passage of S. 137 as an approach to our public school problem preferable to S. 246 which has passed the Senate but has not cleared the House.

It is my belief that the type of Federal aid to education proposed by my bill will give relief at one of the points of greatest need but that it will avoid the dangers I feel are inherent in a system of contributions toward school operating expenses such as S. 246 would provide.

In drawing S. 137 I deliberately tried to make it as simple as possible. There are no complicated formulas or tricky provisions subject to interpretation. It will not even require a separate appropriation to make it effective.

This bill merely authorizes the Reconstruction Finance Corporation to make grants totaling $300,000,000 and loans totaling $300,000,000 for construction of public elementary and secondary schools and related physical facilities.

The RFC would act as a disbursing and collecting agency, responsible only for the fiscal side of the program. All policy matters would be left entirely to State agencies with no possibility of Federal interference or control.

The funds would be divided among the States in proportion to their share of the total population of school-age children. State Boards of Education, or equivalent State agencies, would decide how

funds should be distributed within each State. Whenever a project was certified to the RFC by the State educational agency, the RFC would make payment to the State treasurer, who in turn would make disbursements on order of the educational agency.

Any approved project might receive a grant, a loan or a combination of the two. The maximum loan or the maximum grant would be 50 percent of the total cost of a project, but by combining a grant and a loan it would be possible to obtain the full cost of a building.

Loans would run for a period of not to exceed 20 years and would bear interest at the rate of 2.5 percent. The loans would be secured by bonds of the school district or other taxing unit and the RFC would hold this security after satisfying itself that the bonds were properly issued.

Funds for the loans would be provided by the RFC out of the revolving fund which it already has available. Money for the grants would be paid by the RFC out of its existing funds and the corporation would reimburse itself by having the Secretary of the Treasury cancel an equivalent amount of its outstanding notes.

As you can see, this plan offers little opportunity for Federal interference. No Federal board has to pass on the plans for a school and make the local board adopt its ideas about construction or ornamentation. No bureaucratic agency can threaten to withhold funds unless the local officials conform to its ideas as to who should attend a school and how it should be run.

But, to make doubly sure, my bill, in section 8 specifically states that

nothing contained in this Act shall be construed to authorize any department, agency, officer, or employee of the United States to exercise any direction, supervision, or control over, or to prescribe any requirements with respect to any school, or any State educational institution or agency, with respect to which any funds have been or may be made available or expended pursuant to this Act, nor shall any term or condition of any agreement or any other action taken under this Act, whether by agreement or otherwise, or any limitation or provision in any appropriation made pursuant to this Act, seek to control in any manner, or prescribe requirements with respect to, or authorize any department, agency, officer or employee of the United States to direct, supervise, or control in any manner, or prescribe any requirements with respect to the administration, the personnel, the curriculum, the instruction, the methods of instruction, or the materials of instruction, nor shall any provision of this act be interpreted or construed to imply or require any change in any State constitution prerequisite to any State sharing the benefits of this Act.

I have read this section to emphasize the States' rights character of my bill, and I want to point out that no later action by the Congress could invalidate that section in the way that could happen under the plan of aid proposed by S. 246.

If our local school authorities, lulled by the assurance of a noninterference section, accept Federal aid for their annual operating expenses including payments of teachers' salaries, they will have sacrificed their independence. Once their budgets have been set up, including the Federal aid, what will they do if the noninterference section is repealed by a future Congress? They will be faced with the embarrassing choice of reducing salaries, finding new local sources of revenue on short notice, or accepting whatever bureaucratic supervision is required.

On the other hand, when a board accepts a grant or a loan under my bill and has erected a building, that is a completed transaction.

If another Congress should pass a law tying strings to such grants, each community then could decide whether or not it wanted to accept the aid, but it would not be embarrassed by the aid already accepted for schools which had been built.

Another point I want to stress is that all the funds proposed for grants or loans under my bill become immediately available and no obligation is involved to make subsequent appropriations to carry on the program. To allow each State an opportunity to participate fully, a period of 5 years would be allowed during which the funds could be taken up. But the entire amount could be used during the next year. Then, if the plan has been successful, if the need still is acute and if the state of our national finances permits, there could be a new grant authorized for the following year. On the other hand, if it seemed advisable to close down the program, just as we did the PWA and WPA programs under which 15,300 new buildings or major additions to schools were constructed a decade ago, that could be done without embarrassment to anyone.

This is in contrast with what happened under the road building program, where the appropriations have grown from $5,000,000 in 1916, the first year, to the current level of $450,000,000 and the plan proposed under S. 246 which starts with $300,000,000 but is likely to get up into the billions in a few years as the States and localities follow a natural urge to unload as much as possible of the burden of operating expenses.

Another point that has been raised by many of those who have written me about my bill is the formula for distribution among the States. I know there are some who feel that it should be more heavily weighted in favor of the poorer States instead of being divided on the simple basis of the number of children of school age.

It happens, however, that the proportion of children is, generally speaking, larger in those States with lower per capita income, so that under my formula they will have some advantages compared with the wealthier States. I felt that the differential should not be made too great because even in the States which as a whole have a higher per capita income there are communities in dire need of more school facilities.

For example, I was advised by the New York State Education Department that if the school children of that State are to be housed properly, a program of plant construction should be undertaken costing $1,250,000,000 during the next 8 years.

A report of school plant needs as of January 1, 1949, prepared by the United States Office of Education estimated the total for the Nation during the next 6 years at more than $8,000,000,000. An independent study made by the New York Times and published on April 4, 1949, estimated the building needs for the next decade at $10,000,000,000 and stated that the school authorities are helpless to cope with the problem at the present time.

Admittedly the $300,000,000 in grants and $300,000,000 in loans proposed by my bill will make only a small dent in this accumulated demand, but it would give help in some places where it is most acutely needed and in view of the present state of the Nation's finances I could not recommend a larger program.

If by exercising economies in other places we can avoid the deficit spending which now seems almost inevitable during the next year,