We have in our district another type of community where the office workers and personnel in executive positions would not move, but it is more or less the people who follow the various types of construction jobs, and I would say you would have a different type of intelligence in those two classes of people.

Generally speaking, I think we would be doing a lot of people wrong to say that in the main anybody who lives in one of these districts is not intelligent.

Senator MORSE. Well, let us take a thousand students in your district and a thousand students in the better Dayton, Ohio, schools. If they had equal educational opportunities, what difference in percentage do you think there would be between the group of students in the substandard school who would qualify to go on to high school or to college, in comparison with the thousand students now attending what I have designated as a standard school, provided the students in the substandard school had been given the same educational opportunities as the students in the standard school. Would there be a marked difference in percentage of those who met the qualification tests for going on to high school and college?

Mr. STEBBINS. I do not believe there would, sir.

Senator MORSE. That is, taking a cross section now of American children going to standard and substandard schools across this Nation, do you think it is a supportable conclusion to contend that if we gave them equal educational opportunities, that approximately the same proportion of students who are now attending substandard schools would qualify for higher education in both high school and college if they had been given the same opportunities as the students going to Dayton, Ohio, schools, or Albany, N. Y., schools, or Kearney, Nebr., schools?

Mr. STEBBINS. I think there would be very little difference.

Senator MORSE. Well, if that conclusion is sound, then are we not as a nation in fact depriving boys and girls of an educational opportunity that their intelligence should entitle them to have if we provided them with those educational conditioning factors that would make it possible for them to maintain maximum use of their intelligence?

Mr. STEBBINS. I think that is entirely true.

Senator MORSE. Are we not, therefore, from the standpoint of the Nation, discriminating against boys and girls simply because they happen to be born of parents who are working in Government projects in areas of the country where adequate school opportunities are not provided the children?

Mr. STEBBINS. I think your conclusion is sound.

Senator MORSE. And if that is so, then does not the Federal Government have some responsibility in helping the States financially eliminate that educational discrimination that really, when you analyze the results, is denying the boys and girls the opportunity to make the maximum use of their innate intellectual abilities, because of the fact that we do not give them the educational opportunities that their intelligence entitles them to?

Mr. STEBBINS. That is a very sound conclusion.

Senator MORSE. And has it been your observation as superintendent of schools in your area that because you do not have the facilities to give them educational standards as high as the students enjoy in the

better schools of Dayton, for example, that many of them drop out of the educational process rather than go on to finish high school and enter college? Has that been your observation?

Mr. STEBBINS. I can answer with some authority on that question, Senator. My high-school students are forced to attend school in the city of Dayton because we cannot provide the school facilities, and our pupil or student loss in high school is very great.

Senator MORSE. Because they have not had an equal training in the elementary schools and therefore they cannot meet the competition?

Mr. STEBBINS. That is correct.

Senator MORSE. The competition that the other students set up for them who, from the very beginning of their kindergarten through the eighth grade, went to the better Dayton schools?

Mr. STEBBINS. That is correct.

Senator MORSE. Well, you mentioned the fact that the officers at this air base have facilities, transportation facilities which make it possible for them to send their children to the better Dayton schools. Am I correct in that understanding?

Mr. STEBBINS. The school is not a Dayton school. It is beyond Dayton in a very wealthy residential district.

Senator MORSE. Would it meet the qualification of my hypothetical as being described as a standard school as contrasted to the substandard school?

Mr. STEBBINS. It would be above standard.

Senator MORSE. The standard would be above?

Mr. STEBBINS. Yes.

Senator MORSE. But the boy or girl of a father who holds a clerkship or a position on the lower echelons in the plant would not have that facility available?

Mr. STEBBINS. That is correct, and they are largely the children of officers.

Senator MORSE. But we have no evidence, have we-I want to be sure of this; I know of none; there may be some that I do not know of— that although the father of one child is an officer and the father of another child is a mechanic on airplane engines, the child of the officer is necessarily bound to have more innate ability for educational training than the child of the mechanic?

Mr. STEBBINS. Except, Senator, that the officer lives in Government housing on the post, whereas the mechanic is likely to live in a housing project in my school district.

Senator MORSE. Which means early infancy conditioning that affects the child as the result of his early environment as far as the home is concerned. But given equality of conditioning, we know of no statistical data, do we, to the effect that the children of these officers are predetermined to rise higher in the educational scale than the children of the mechanics?

Mr. STEBBINS. No; Senator, except that I was trying to point out that the child of the officer living on the post and being transported across town through the other school system is likely to get a better education.

Senator MORSE. That is right, because he is taken out of the substandard environment and put into an environment of superior standards.

Well, is it not also true that one of the basic tenets of American free education is that if we provide equality of educational opportunity to all of our children, those of like intellectual ability, irrespective of economic status of their parents, will rise to the top?

Mr. STEBBINS. That is correct, I believe.

Senator MORSE. And we are discriminating against these children because we are deliberately following the policy that makes it impossible for them to rise to the top because they do not have the educational facilities, teaching staff and other educational opportunities, that make it possible for them to develop these innate abilities which will wither if they are not developed.

Mr. STEBBINS. That is correct.

Senator MORSE. Has it been your observation that there is another discrimination that we find developing, based again on economic status, namely where some parents have the financial means, they just take the boy and girl out of the public school, and place the child in a private school?

Mr. STEBBINS. Yes; I think there is very grave danger

Senator MORSE. I do not deny their right to do so, and I am quite. a supporter of private schools for those who want to use them, but I do not see why a parent should in effect be forced by his Government to go to the expense of sending a child to a private school if he would prefer not to send the child to a private school, but feels that he must do so in order to give the child a decent break in educational training. It seems to me that that is a form of taxation that the Government cannot justify, that is being imposed upon a parent who would prefer to send his children to a public school.

Mr. STEBBINS. That practice, Senator, is quite prevalent in these war defense areas with which I am familiar at least. A number of the people recognize that to get the best educational advantages, they are going to have to send their children outside of those districts, and they do pay the tuition to other school districts.

Senator MORSE. Well, there was a time, I understand, in the not too far distant past, when that was also almost a choice that had to be made by people living in Washington, D. C., and I speak as one who for the past 2 years has been president of a Parent-Teachers Association. We are improving the standards so that a good many of our District schools are, I think we can say, of superior standards.

I will give you a little humorous incident that will bring a twinkle to your eye. My daughter entered a high school in this city. The second day of her entrance, a classmate came up to her and said, "Is it true that your father is a member of the Senate?" "Yes." The classmate said, "Well, then why do you not go to a private school where you belong?" (Laughter.]

I am a great supporter of public schools. I know of no better training for democratic living than the public school, but it is very significant that that attitude has existed for a long time past in Washington, D. C. It is only in recent years that you find more and more people in Government life sending their children to public schools.

I do not know the statistics, but I venture a guess that you would be surprised at the large percentage of them who are still being sent to private schools, not because their parents prefer to send them to private schools necessarily, but because many of them feel they cannot give them the educational opportunity the children ought to have unless they are sent to private schools.

That is why I say so frequently on the floor of the Senate the Congress does a disgraceful job of giving adequate support to the District of Columbia schools, and I am afraid that too many of them have developed a private school philosophy because of where they send their own youngsters -

Mr. STEBBINS. That is right.

Senator MORSE. Forgetting that after all the boys and girls of the Government clerks, the mechanics in the garages and other places are entitled to high-standard public schools in this district; just as I think Congress is derelict in the type of situation you mention.

I have just one more question along the same line as the question I asked Senator Kerr earlier. As a school superintendent, do you know of any provision in S. 287, for example, or any of the other bills before us, which would in any way encroach upon your prerogatives and jurisdiction and the prerogatives and jurisdiction of your school board to determine educational administrative policy of your schools without interference from the Federal Government?

Mr. STEBBINS. We have no fear, Senator, along those lines whatsoever, that there would be control.

Senator MORSE. And you are familiar with the Federal aid to education bill that has passed the Senate and has been bottled up to date in the House by the same sort of opposition that has killed it in every session gone by?

Mr. STEBBINS. Yes, I am.

Senator MORSE. On the theory that it endangers local autonomy and local jurisdiction over school policies and administration prerogatives. Do you know of anything in that bill that would in any way interfere with you as a school superintendent and your school board in determining completely local policy?

Mr. STEBBINS. We have complete confidence, Senator, that that would not exercise any type of Federal control. Our people are very much enthused about it, and hope it does pass.

Senator MORSE. Dangerous as figures of speech are, do you nevertheless agree with me that the argument. that this Federal aid to education bill will endanger local school autonomy is a scarecrow argument? Mr. STEBBINS. We call it a straw man, Senator.

Senator MORSE. Well, either one. I have never seen very many straw men in a cabbage patch or a carrot field that will keep the crows and rabbits away. I always had to do it by the shotgun method, and I recommend to the American people that they do it by the ballot box method in 1950, because I think it is going to take another election to educate this Congress in an understanding that the American people want to eliminate the type of unfair discrimination against the boys and girls of this country who are unfortunate enough to be born into the type of locality that you have testified here about today.

The American people, I think, have reached the point where an overwhelming majority of them want this Government to stop the sort of unjustifiable discrimination on which you have so well testified to this morning, and I think your testimony is a great help to the record of this case. Thank you very much.

Mr. STEBBINS. Thank you.

Senator MORSE. Mr. Glen T. Goodwill, superintendent of schools, Monterey, Calif. Well, we are almost neighbors.

STATEMENT OF GLEN T. GOODWILL,

SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS, MONTEREY PUBLIC SCHOOLS, MONTEREY, CALIF.

Mr. GOODWILL. Yes, indeed.

Mr. Chairman, I am superintendent of Monterey public schools, Monterey, Calif.

The city of Monterey, Calif., has existed as a beautiful, quiet, offthe-beaten-path, residential community for the past hundred years. It has enjoyed slow but substantial growth, and is known throughout the world as a fine home and recreational area.

World War II caused establishment of military camps all over the United States, and Monterey was selected as the ideal location for military installations-which now include the following:

1. The Presidio of Monterey (established 1770), which is now the home of the United States Army Foreign Language School.

2. Fort Ord.

3. The United States Navy General Line School.

4. The United States Navy Air Station.

5. The United States Coast Guard Station.

It is an admitted fact that when the United States Government creates employment in a community, and establishes a substantial pay roll there, certain benefits are derived by the business and professional people of the area. The reverse is true, however, for public education. To substantiate this statement, I should like to point out the facts as they exist in Monterey.

The Presidio of Monterey is located in the finest residential area of our city, and takes 400 acres of land from the tax rolls. The United States Army purchased 28,000 acres of land overlooking Monterey Bay for the location of Fort Ord. The United States Navy recently purchased 600 acres of fine residential property and the world-famous Hotel Del Monte at a cost of $2,500,000, for location of the Navy General Line School. The other installations mentioned above are also situated in areas where land is expensive.

We welcome these military centers in our school district, but it must be pointed out that the millions of dollars which have been taken from the tax rolls lessen our ability to support good schools.

The Monterey Public Schools consists of two separate school districts: The Monterey city school district (elementary grades, kindergarten through grade 8) covers the city of Monterey and the contiguous community of Seaside; and the Monterey Union High School district (high school grades 10 through 12, and junior college grades 13 and 14) which includes within its boundaries all of the Monterey city school district and also 7 outlying elementary districts. Fifty percent of the money expended for school purposes in the Monterey districts must be paid from taxes on real and personal property. More than 29,000 acres of land have been removed from the tax rolls of the school districts because of military installations. The Presidio (Army Language School), the United States Navy General Line School, and the United States naval air station-which total 1,000 acres are entirely within the city limits of Monterey. This land would have a high assessed valuation if the property were on the tax rolls of the school district.

Fort Ord lies entirely within the Monterey Union High School district, and covers hundreds of acres of land which would otherwise be very valuable as residential area, with a view of Monterey Bay.