not exceeding 80 acres. For larger areas, a gravity supply from Beaver Creek is nost attractive, with a construction cost, including purchase of irrigation rights, of $136,000 and a cost of 4 cents per 1,000 gallons.

Water requirements for irrigation, with reasonable care in handling, are estinated at 45 inches in depth annually, equivalent to 1,220,000 gallons per acre. From the foregoing, it is concluded that:

(a) In a year of drought such as 1954, present water supplies are inadequate and would necessitate restrictions in the use of water for irrigation of lawns and shrubbery.

(b) The city of Colorado Springs has undertaken major construction projects, which by 1957, will provide in excess of 100 percent increase in the firm water Supply.

(c) The city of Colorado Springs does have definite plans and has initiated action to obtain additional major sources of aboveground water, as well as supplemental sources of underground water.

(d) The firm sources of water which will be available to the city of Colorado Springs by 1957 will be more than sufficient to meet the estimated demand generated by the growth of the city, the Air Force Academy and other military installations in the foreseeable future.

(e) Sources of underground water exist on the site of the Air Force Academy and additional sources appear feasible of development as a source of water for purposes of supplemental irrigation.

Mr. MAHON. The specific issue before this subcommittee is-shall we give you the green light on the acquisition of an additional 2,500 acres of land, running the total land for the project to 17,500 acres? Now, we have had a hearing on that. All of the members of the subcommittee were invited and a number attended. I do not see much use of going further into that aspect of it. I think most of us have been convinced that the additional acreage could be justified, but we have to talk it over and decide. I am sure what the feeling will be.

COST OF ACADEMY

We have held this whole thing up pending a little better understanding with you, Mr. Secretary, and the people in the Department of Defense with respect to what the total construction cost will be. The transcript which is before us indicates that the architectSecretary TALBOTT. Skidmore, Owings & Merrill are the main architects. We have consulting architects in addition to our main architects.

Mr. MAHON. The transcript will indicate these architects are seeking something dramatic, something breathtaking, something really outstanding, and something the like of which exists no place in the world. We want it to be something we can take pride in. No one will debate that. We have authorized $126 million for this project and we do not want to be confronted in a few years with a plea from the Department of Defense-well, the costs have exceeded anything we had anticipated. It is going to cost $50 million more.

Then you might come back and say, "We are sorry, it will take $50 million more."

That is the way that it looks to me and I put my words on the record with a great deal of confidence that there is danger here. We want to write it down, and we want to nail you down and the Department of Defense in the record here that you are not going to come back for additional money, and you are not going to have such a romantic and dramatic and breathtaking construction that we are going to spend far more money than we can justify to ourselves, the Congress, and the country.

What do you say about that? What are your plans and what an you do about it?

Secretary TALBOTT. No plans of any buildings have been preented. There are no pictures of any buildings. I have never heard f any description, nor do I know of any basis for the talk that it is oing to be breathtaking and all that. I have never heard of anyhing that would be ground for that. We have been working on a aster plan which entails how much acreage we need, where the oads go, where the utilities go, and where we will put the main uildings of the Academy. However, I have not yet seen a drawng of a building.

Now, in order to protect ourselves, we brought in three eminent onsulting architects, Wallace Harrison of New York, Saranin of Detroit, and Weldon Becket of Los Angeles. We have Skidmore, Owings & Merrill and Robert & Co., and a total of seven groups working on this. They are to present to us on the 17th of March Chicago a little bit further development of what we are to do in he way of buildings. We hope to let the contracts for the airstrip, he warehouse, the roads, the utilities such as sewerage, water, and lectricity, and so forth, within the next 90 days. Those contracts ill be let. We will give ample study to all that. I will be very lad to come before your committee with a picture of the whole story efore the contracts are let on the buildings.

I think that it would be a stupid thing for us to start in on this hing with the idea that we are going to spend over $126 million, nd I have said so very emphatically to our architects and to our wn engineers and our Air Force people. I would be very disappointed if we did not come within that estimate.

Mr. MAHON. On the fully completed, first, second, and final invement of this construction?

Secretary TALBOTT. Unless you double the size, which we are now ontemplating, certainly.

Mr. MAHON. In other words, you do not have the remotest idea
hat more than $126 million will be required for the complete job
n this Academy, and you are going to see that is done?

Secretary TALBOTT. I am satisfied it can be done for $126 million.
Mr. MAHON. Are you going to see that it is done for that?

Secretary TALBOTT. I am going to try to-if I am here that long.
Mr. MAHON. If you get these buildings half constructed and
ome in and say, "We have to have additional money," then it is
oing to be too late.

Secretary TALBOTT. I cannot answer for what happens after I o away. I will tell you some of the other things I have done. There are certain things that I do not want to come to the Conress for.

The first thing I did was to inspire the State of Colorado to put up 1 million toward the purchase of land. That saved the Government 1 million. I do not want to come in and ask your committee for 500,000 now for a golf course, because that would be stupid.

Mr. MAHON. I would not say it is stupid to have a golf course. Secretary TALBOTT. The $500,000 for a golf course and a clubhouse s being donated. I have already set up an Air Force Academy oundation, and I believe that we will have a number of items acquired hrough the foundation. We have had several men speak of their

desire to make gift
ames, but one mar
and still another n
She special thing,

I believe that we
ated through ou
Now as to the la
raised this acreage
do it. However, o
the only reason for
money. We would
prices go way up.
Finally I was con
need this extra a
Mr. MAHON. I do
the architects told u
not use the word
*dramatic."

Secretary TALBOT
Mr. MAHON. I ca
an enduring monum
Secretary TALBOT
Mr. MAHON. I wa
Secretary TALBOT
Mr. MAHON. I d
efensible.
Secretary TALBOT
and indefensible.

Mr. MAHON. I am

This is a picture whi this thing, and is son We want it to be o Secretary TALBOT Mr. MAHON. Let of people who ha Secretary TALBOT Mr. MAHON. Let Secretary TALBOT responsible

Mr. MAHON. The You give us your as o not have a plan o

Te sit.

Secretary TALBOTT Mr. MAHON. Ther hether or not this ure. That questi e for Mr. Riley to Mr. RILEY. Mr. S would like to say th Eny years. As a n

when it was not as p

lesire to make gifts or grants to the Academy. I will not use their ames, but one man wants to give $100,000 and another man $50,000, and still another man $50,000. They want to give that money for some special thing, a gate or pillars at the entrance, and that type of hing.

I believe that we are going to have a lot of very spectacular things donated through our Air Force foundation.

Now as to the land problem-I sent the architects back when they raised this acreage required from 15,000 to 17,500. I did not want to do it. However, on reconsideration it seemed a little shortsighted if the only reason for not taking the extra acreage was to save some money. We would never be able to go back and buy the acreage. The prices go way up.

Finally I was convinced, after going over the ground again, that we do need this extra acreage. We have all agreed on that.

Mr. MAHON. I do not want to be unfair in my statement as to what the architects told us a short time ago, I believe in January. He did not use the word "breathtaking." I believe that he used the word "dramatic."

Secretary TALBOTT. I want it dramatic. I want it wonderful.

Mr. MAHON. I can understand these architects would like to build an enduring monument to their firm.

Secretary TALBOTT. Do you not want them to?

Mr. MAHON. I want them to.

Secretary TALBOTT. So do I.

Mr. MAHON. I do not want them to do something ridiculous and indefensible.

Secretary TALBOTT. We will not let them do something ridiculous and indefensible. We have to approve those things, Mr. Chairman. Mr. MAHON. I am now quoting from Mr. Merrill's statement:

This is a picture which illustrates to a certain extent the dramatic possibilities of this thing, and is something which will be outstanding.

We want it to be outstanding.

Secretary TALBOTT. And you want it to be dramatic.

Mr. MAHON. Let us not let this thing get out of hand. There are a lot of people who have stars in their eyes on this.

Secretary TALBOTT. So do I have stars in my eyes.

Mr. MAHON. Let us have something utilitarian.

Secretary TALBOTT. I am also money conscious, and I will see that everyone responsible for this Academy is too.

Mr. MAHON. The point is, in summation, you do not have any plans. You give us your assurance it will not cost over $126 million, but you do not have a plan or design as to one single building. That is where we sit.

Secretary TALBOTT. That is right.

Mr. MAHON. There were some questions raised in this hearing as to whether or not this project was so designed as to be of a utilitarian nature. That question was raised somewhat by Mr. Riley. I would like for Mr. Riley to develop that a bit at this point.

Mr. RILEY. Mr. Secretary and Mr. Chairman, in the beginning I would like to say this: I have been an advocate of the Air Force for many years. As a matter of fact, I voted for the 70-wing Air Force when it was not as popular as it is now. I am very jealous of the Air

Force keeping in good standing. For that reason I sometimes may ppear to be a little critical and tough on these propositions. I do ot want either the Air Force or this committee to be put in a position here they will be criticized any more than is absolutely necessary. When we had these hearings it developed that this facility for the raining of our officers in the Air Force was going to be spread over onsiderable ground, so much so, in fact, that the professors or instrucors were going to have to use a bus or a train or private conveyances o get to the places where they were to work. I use that as a concrete xample. When you spread a facility of this kind over considerable creage, as seems to be contemplated here, you are going to run into a remendous expense on sewerage, water, and electricity. I presume at you are going to put the lines underground. You do not want hem around on poles for people to get tangled up in.

The wider you spread utilities and installations the more money ou are going to find it will cost. Just the utilities alone will run into tremendous amount of money.

Then when the architects began to speak in such glowing terms bout the dramatic appearance of these buildings, and the unusual and utstanding scenery that is going to be added to that section of the ountry, it made me a little uneasy, frankly.

I just do not believe that you can build the kind of an institution at was outlined for $126 million.

So I asked this question: "How much do you propose to spend?”
"he only answer I got was "$126 million has been authorized.'

I submit to you, sir, that is not a very sound answer.
Secretary TALBOTT. That is what we asked for to build the Academy
fter we had gone over the plans and estimates.

Now, I ask you, Mr. Riley, what would you do if you had this job
ut up to you the way that I have it put up to me? We have 322
rchitectural groups. We appointed a committee to go over and
nalyze each of these groups, and we analyzed and analyzed and
me up with four top firms. The top firm, Skidmore, Owings &
Ierrill, has done over $2 billion worth of work in this country alone.
They were the top selections. They are a Chicago firm with offices in
-os Angeles and New York. They have a top reputation.

The second was Harrison. The third was Sarann and the fourth as Weldon Becket. They are the top four.

So we hired the one the committee recommended. We asked the her three to come in and consult. Their fee as consultants is praccally nothing. They do it because of their interest in the whole roposition.

I have gone to each of these men and firms. I do not know where to rn for better advice and consultation on architectural work.

That is the setup.

Mr. RILEY. I know from reputation that you selected a good archictural firm.

Mr. TALBOTT. Are you criticizing the master plan that these men ave come up with?

Mr. RILEY. NO; I am criticizing the fact that the chairman brought ut a while ago, that we do not want you coming back for $50 milon additional and then later than that coming back for another $50 illion, and we wind up with a $350 million Air Force Academy.

Secretary TALE master plan. I d know. We are h Mr. RILEY. If be

Secretary TALB and the way it is Academy. I kno ind that both had Both had to come Everybody I hav

acreage. When I see the need all the acreag Then when you fi people keep it and mind. I think sor Mr. RILEY. I th I am not so muc as I am with the u Secretary TALBO Mr. RILEY. Yes Secretary TALBO Mr. RILEY. The and I am going to Secretary TALBO flow Talbott was have to hold the Mr. RILEY. I say tration of the fact Academy is going Secretary TALBO into those two vall Mr. RILEY. Whe Secretary TALBO

Te are.

Mr. RILEY. I th
You got the land.
Secretary TALBO
Lave to go to the tw
Mr. MAHON. IV
Committee how far
the professors wou
and all of that busi
Secretary TALBOT
Mr. MAHON. Ho
they live to the plac
Secretary TALBOT
be 2 miles. I took
Mr. MAHON. I se
Mr. RILEY. It wo

house?
Secretary TALBOT
git safe-2 miles.

Secretary TALBOTT. I will not. You see, you are criticizing the master plan. I do not know whether it is right or not. I do not know. We are hiring the best people we can for that purpose.

Mr. RILEY. If you do not know what the cost of it is going to be

Secretary TALBOTT. I did not say the cost. I say this master plan and the way it is spread out whether it is a half mile or so from the Academy. I know when you go to West Point and Annapolis, you find that both had trouble because they did not have enough acreage. Both had to come back and pay a premium price to get more acreage. Everybody I have talked to has advised, "Be sure you get enough acreage."

When I see the layout and how spread out it is, I do not think we need all the acreage, but everybody tells me we do. I sort of hesitate. Then when you find out how much it would cost you if you let the people keep it and then you need it and must buy it, you change your mind. I think some of this property would double and quadruple.

Mr. RILEY. I think you are right and I am in accord with that.

I am not so much concerned about the 2,500 additional acres of land, as I am with the ultimate cost of the Academy.

Secretary TALBOTT. Whose worry is that? That is not your worry. Mr. RILEY. Yes; it is.

Secretary TALBOTT. It is not comparable to my worry.

Mr. RILEY. The responsibility comes right back to the Congress, and I am going to take care of my part.

Secretary TALBOTT. You fellows can say what a false alarm that fellow Talbott was, and I do not want to be put in that position. I have to hold the Academy costs down, and I know it.

Mr. RILEY. I say the widespread installation proposed is one illustration of the fact that I have some ground for my uneasiness that the Academy is going to cost considerably more than the $126 million.

Secretary TALBOTT. That was our original plan, to have it spread into those two valleys.

Mr. RILEY. When you got the authorization?

Secretary TALBOTT. I thought that we would spread out more than

we are.

Mr. RILEY. I thought you said the architects made the plan after you got the land.

Secretary TALBOTT. I knew from looking over the site that we would have to go to the two valleys. You could not hold it in one valley.

Mr. MAHON. I wish that somebody would tell Mr. Riley and the committee how far it is from one of these valleys to the other where the professors would have to come in order to attend the classrooms and all of that business-how many miles.

Secretary TALBOTT. At the outside, 2 miles.

Mr. MAHON. How far will they have to travel from the place where they live to the place where they will have to work?

Secretary TALBOTT. Some of the houses will be a mile and some will be 2 miles. I took the outside perimeter.

Mr. MAHON. I see your point.

Mr. RILEY. It would not be over 2 miles to the farthest instructor's house?

Secretary TALBOTT. I do not think it will be that far, but I am playing it safe-2 miles.