Therefore, while $21 million looked like a very expensive bill here, hen related to the amount of money we are not asking for to ild a new site some place else, it is quite reasonable. It also lets s make use of this warehousing which the Army is giving up.

OTHER SITES CONSIDERED AND PROBABLE COST

Mr. WHITTEN. Can you supply for the record what other sites you ooked over and their probable cost?

General RODENHAUSER. We will be glad to furnish that for the ecord. It is quite a story. I feel that we should because we have told ou in prior years that we did not foresee that.

(The following information was furnished:)

SITES AND COMMENTS

Hammonton, N. J. (preferred site): $101,410,000 estimated ultimate cost. he Plains, N. J.: Serious housing and labor situation.

arvanza Memorial area, N. J.: Lack of adequate area for expansion.

umberland tract, Millville, N. J.: Poorly drained area surrounded by poultry farms.

ancaster, Pa.: Soil problems due to limestone caverns.

Of the sites considered, the Hammonton, N. J., site was the only satisfactory ne and therefore detailed engineering construction costs were prepared on it. Mr. WHITTEN. I recall the Cadillac site where you took the higher ost place with the least flying time, and the more hazardous. So havng that in your record, it is just as well in this case that you show s it is not again something of that kind.

General RODENHOUSER. We have been in Olmstead since 1928.

Mr. WHITTEN. I know, but this is for $21 million. There could be question of whether you are doing the most expensive thing with the east benefit, in view of the other testimony in the record, and it would be well to show this is not another example of that.

General RODENHAUSER. I would like to get on the record that when we considered the Hammonton site in New Jersey it, of course, was on he Atlantic seaboard relatively close to the ocean. As I recall, the Senate committee did not feel that we ought to build the site there ecause it was too close to the seaboard. In other words, it might be oo vulnerable.

Mr. WHITTEN. Are they military experts in the Senate?

General RODENHAUSER. That was one of the reasons that influenced

Mr. WHITTEN. What would the Senate know about military plans, or the House, either, for that matter, with regard to where you ought o have an air base?

General RODENHAUSER. Mr. Whitten, we always respect the opinon of

Mr. WHITTEN. I suspect that.

General RODENHAUSER. We always respect the views and judgment f our representatives in Congress, and I do not feel that I am in a position to pass on those matters.

Mr. WHITTEN. I feel privileged to because I think they know as much about it as I, and I know how little I know, when it comes to electing the most useful base.

You started off by saying that you had made this decision because t cost less money. Now we are getting around to the fact that because

a Senate committee did not prefer it some place else you made the decision. When you get that far, you have to go in and see if some Senator might be interested in having it in one State as against another. It is always shocking to me to see these military decisions being based upon a Congressman's decision or a Senator's decision or the personal wish of someone in the Defense Department.

General RODENHAUSER. I would not want to give the committee the impression that what the Senate subcommittee said finally influenced us in not going into Hammonton, nor would I want to imply or have the committee gather that the reason we are going into Ölmstead is because of any such reason.

Mr. WHITTEN. You yourself gave that as one of the factors, or one of the reasons involved in it.

General RODENHAUSER. What I said, Mr. Whitten, was this: When you asked me to furnish the information for the record I said it was quite a long story.

Mr. WHITTEN. And then you waded off into the other matter. The cost comparison might not have been a clincher, so voluntarily you said that the Senate committee had indicated you should not go in there, so you are giving a new reason apparently to bolster your case. General RODENHAUSER. I was pointing out some of the factors that would be in this paper that we will present to the committee, and I thought that I should inform you that that would be one of them. Mr. WHITTEN. I am glad to have the information.

I would like also to know any other sideline factors or pressures or requests that may have been factors in this other than a purely military decision.

General RODENHAUSER. We will furnish a complete statement for your committee.

JUSTIFICATION FOR EXPENDITURE AT THE BASE

Mr. DEANE. Have at we have been dis General RODENHAU Mr. DEANE. When General RODENHAU Mr. FERRY. I was u had come into the my warehousing through an interchan railable to be used tion upon the pos look at it. W red, it was so bad Tea bad condition. Mr. DEANE. Will t Mr. FERRY. It wil cation where we wil Mr. DEANE. Does t General RODENHAU Mr. SCRIVNER. H red? It would ild a new runwa Mr.FERRY. You ar way location it is 1 position that wh sa hazard. The nes that we want be shown on the m General RODENHAU the base plan out they so desire. Mr. DAVIS. This co ed by the discussio tof things that we we discussed it.

Mr. DEANE. Do you think that you are fully justified in making this large expenditure on the base in view of the number of personnel that you have at this base? I notice that you have airmen, 265; officers, 233. At McClellan you had airmen, 3,481 and officers, 815. I wonder if you have fully given us the figures and sufficient testimony as to the mission of this base that would require this amount of money? General RODENHAUSER. I will be glad to expand on it. If you will look on that same line, you will see that there are some 13,162 Department of Air Force civilian employees working at this depot. Mr. DEANE. At McClellan you had 15,000.

General RODENHAUSER. That is right, but you have some tactical missions in at McClellan as well. The mission of this depot is that it is to be the principal northeast depot in the United States. It already has a large number of facilities on it, Mr. Deane, which, of course, we would not care to abandon. Their utilization in the future is going to be nil, or practically so, and over a period of years actually nil if you cannot fly aircraft in there for the necessary maintenance operations.

Olmstead is a base that we have had aircraft in since 1918. It has been built up over a great number of years. It has always been regarded as one of our important installations in the northeast part of the United States.

AVAIL

Now we have a $21
eestimated total cos
illion last year
doat Olmstead?
General RODENHAU
which we will not
Army. That is

al amount of war
pin price somewha
In addition to that
h to put that ware
in that area, so that
I would say, Mr. I
are getting appro
this Marietta depot
Mr. DAVIS. How fal

r. DEANE. Have you been on this base and on most of the bases we have been discussing?

eneral RODENHAUSER. Yes; I have been to Olmstead.

r. DEANE. When were you there last?

eneral RODENHAUSER. About 3 years ago, as I recall it.

r. FERRY. I was up there last October to look at this base, because ad come into the picture on account of the availability of the y warehousing about 10 or 12 miles away from the base and ugh an interchange of facilities the warehousing would be made lable to be used by the Air Force. That brought a new comtion upon the possible utilization of Olmstead. So I went up to › a look at it. When we came into the flying field frankly I was ed, it was so bad. You come right over a powerline there. It a bad condition.

r. DEANE. Will that powerline continue to stay there?

[r. FERRY. It will stay there, but we will move the runway to a tion where we will be free of the hazard of coming in.

[r. DEANE. Does that involve this wholesale bulk depot?

eneral RODENHAUSER. This is depot warehousing, Mr. Deane.
Ir. SCRIVNER. How much would it cost to have the powerline
oved? It would be more reasonable to move the powerline than
uild a new runway?

r. FERRY. You are on the bank of a river there, and with the present
way location it is impossible to extend it. The power line is in
position that when you come in to the existing runway it pre-
s a hazard. The runway itself is too short to use for the big
es that we want to bring in there for depot maintenance. That
be shown on the map, Mr. Scrivner.

eneral RODENHAUSER. If you desire, we would be very happy to the base plan out here and discuss it in detail with the committee, ney so desire.

Ir. DAVIS. This comes something as a surprise. I am a bit cond by the discussion that we have had on it. Here we are doing a of things that we did not contemplate at this base, at least the last e we discussed it.

AVAILABILITY OF WAREHOUSE FACILITIES

ow we have a $21 million package at this time, and yet I notice that estimated total cost for this installation will be reduced from about million last year to $50 million this year. What are we not going at Olmstead?

eneral RODENHAUSER. We are inheriting quite a bit of warehouswhich we will not have to build by getting this Marietta depot from Army. That is one reason and a very substantial one why the 1 amount of warehousing that we would have to build would in price somewhat.

addition to that, we are not going to have to buy the land on ch to put that warehouse, and of course land is very difficult to come n that area, so that of course drops it down considerably.

would say, Mr. Davis, that is the principal factor in the drop. are getting approximately 4 million square feet of warehousing his Marietta depot and at $6 per square foot that is quite an item. r. DAVIS. How far away is that warehouse?

44

General RODENHAUSER. About 10 to 13 miles by road, sir. It is just up the valley from Olmstead.

Mr. SCRIVNER. What will you put in there; seldom-needed items? General RODENHAUSER. That is right; heavy stuff will be placed out there and the slower moving items, and the stuff you need on the base will be faster moving items.

NEW RUNWAY

Mr. DAVIS. You are building an entirely new runway and abandoning the old one?

General RODEN HAUSER. That is correct, sir.

Mr. DAVIS. I did not pick that up from looking at the map there. Mr. SCRIVNER. What are you going to do with the old runway? General RODENHAUSER. Part of it will be used as a taxiway and apron, but other portions will be used on which to build some of these facilities which we have in here, sir. They are pretty crowded there on that little piece of land and they are unable to expand the base. Mr. SCRIVNER. That is the reason there was some objection to putting it there in the first place-it was so crowded.

General RODENHAUSER. We could see that we could not do it because we could never build the amount of warehousing needed in connection with it. Then, when we got the warehousing from the Army that made it worthwhile for us to do this rather than to pick a whole new site someplace else and start from scratch. I assure you this project was very, very thoroughly reviewed, not only in the Air Force but in the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense, and exhaustively so. It was approved by that Office for inclusion in the

program.

Mr. DAVIS. Apparently this new runway will be down in the flood plain of the river.

General RODENHAUSER. No, sir; it will not. We have made certain of that through a system of diking on the edge of the runway and raising up the elevation of the runway above the present level of the ground, so we feel we are several feet above the maximum flood level at this location.

ilitarily a sound pr that trip I had to in here presently, and 1as proper procedu

Mr. MAHON. Were
that probably t
dher than the cost fa
Mr. FERRY. Yes; t
arts of the Air For
is base are World
up to date, part
There was a f
tandably, that
bet I do not think
Lauch seriousnes
Mr. MAHON. Do
are referred, from
dare to do i

Mr. FERRY. That other factor w ich I feel should s decision. This Torkmen who have be over a great to replace with too bad to lose t Mr. GARLOCK. TH Ming in Mariett the runways in acertain amount a warehouse 10 siered. we came to it was substan Salting from the g Mr. MAHON. I a projects in the f doubtful nat Now, we come he of opinion wi Mr. FERRY. Yes Mr. MAHON. F best interest o per.

Mr. GARLOCK. The question raised by Mr. Davis was one of the problems that had to be solved before we could agree on using the Marietta depot.

General RODENHAUSER. That is right.

Mr. DAVIS. You have $3,500,000 for excess fill to put the runway up above flood level?

General RODENHAUSER. That is right; that and diking. That is a part of the diking.

Mr. DEANE. What will be the height of your highest dike?

Mr. FERRY. About 15 feet.

Mr. DEANE. Was it because of the serious problem that seemed to be facing the airport that you went up there?

Mr. FERRY. I went up because the prospective cost of this new runway seemed to be so exorbitant that I was unable to justify it in my own mind for inclusion in the public-works program; military construction, for this year. It seemed to me an outrageous sum of money. So I got in a plane and went up there and took a look at it myself in order to justify the fact the project was economically and

I would like to gress to the he to know every on a sheet of Tald direct us t Can you think off Mr. FERRY. Qu ed to be here

militarily a sound project to go forward with. In connection with that trip I had to investigate the functions of the base, what was there presently, and the Marietta warehouse to convince myself that it was proper procedure.

OPPOSITION TO SITE

Mr. MAHON. Were there those in the Air Force who took the position that probably this project should not be approved for reasons other than the cost factor that you have mentioned?

Mr. FERRY. Yes; there was great opposition to going in by certain parts of the Air Force at an old base because some of the buildings at this base are World War I buildings, rather decrepit and little and not up to date, particularly in the light of modern industrial buildings. There was a feeling on the part of a great many people, and understandably, that we should make a nice new start someplace else. But I do not think they were regarding the money aspect of it with too much seriousness.

Mr. MAHON. Do you think despite this unusual cost to which you have referred, from the standpoint of the tax dollar this is the best thing to do?

Mr. FERRY. That was the conclusion that I came to. There was one other factor which has not been introduced into the testimony which I feel should be given a certain amount of weight in reaching this decision. This is an area of very highly skilled and experienced workmen who have been doing this class of maintenance for the Air Force over a great many years. It would be a difficult group of people to replace with similar skills in a short period of time. It would be too bad to lose that ability.

Mr. GARLOCK. The whole thing ties into the utilization of this warehousing in Marietta. If you are going to use that, then you have to get the runways in so that they can be used, and Mr. Ferry said there is a certain amount of inconvenience and reduction in efficiency in having a warehouse 10 or 13 miles away from the base, but all things considered, we came to the conclusion that it was a satisfactory operation and it was substantially cheaper than going someplace else and just starting from the ground up.

Mr. MAHON. I am interested, Mr. Ferry, in fixing in my own mind the projects in the proposal which may be controversial and which may be of doubtful nature.

Now, we come here to one of those where there has been some difference of opinion within the services. You resolved that difference. Mr. FERRY. Yes.

Mr. MAHON. From what you have said thus far you resolved it in the best interest of defense, and particularly from the standpoint of money.

I would like to know, at the time we mark this bill up, and as we progress to the hearings, where these spots are. It is impossible for me to know everything about all these projects. If you could write out on a sheet of paper projects somewhat comparable to this that would direct us to take a special look, I would be very appreciative. Can you think offhand of some that would be comparable to this?

Mr. FERRY. Quickly I cannot, but as the hearing progresses, and I intend to be here as much as I possibly can, I will personally, or I