ize that is over a period of time, but give them to us to the best of your ability. Mr. HILL. Well, that is rather a hard thing to pin down because most of the officers in the club were shifted around quite a bit. I can give you the names of people who have at one time or other held office. Mr. KUNZIG. Would you please do that? We will understand that it was during that period of 1946, 1947, 1948, and 1949. Mr. HILL. Membership chairman at one time was Katrina Manley. At one time it was James Wood. Mr. KUNZIG. James Wood? Mr. HILL. That is right. Mr. KUNZIG. Is that his full name? Mr. HILL. So far as I know. Mr. KUNZIG. You knew James Wood, then, of course, to be a member of the Communist Party. Mr. HILL. Yes. For a short period of time Emma Stanley. Mr. KUNZIG. Do you know anything about her, her occupation, residence, or anything of that nature? Mr. HILL. She was a county functionary. She had the office of treasurer, I believe, of Alameda County. I know she was in charge of making contacts both within the party and outside of the party for the purpose of collecting contributions, and she practically always picked up the dues at our local meeting and took them to the county office. She was financial secretary, I believe was her title. Mr. KUNZIG. These were Communist Party officers of which you were speaking? Mr. HILL. These were the Communist Party officers of Alameda County. Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Moulder. Mr. MOULDER. In response to counsel's question a moment ago you said you knew someone to be a member of the Communist Party. May I suggest you state your reason as to how and why you knew him to be a member of the Communist Party? Mr. HILL. Do you recall the person I mentioned? Mr. MOULDER. I believe you named James Wood. I think that same rule should apply to anyone else you named as a member of the Communist Party. Mr. HILL. Well, in the case of James Wood, the people in our branch, I have personal knowledge of because I subsequently became the membership director of the branch, and I kept all the records, and I issued cards to the other members, so I had direct, first-hand knowledge there. In the case of other people, some of them that I have mentioned have been through association, seeing them at closed meetings where you could only get in with a card. Mr. VELDE. How would you describe a closed meeting, Mr. Hill? Mr. HILL. Well, I recall a meeting that was called at the Norway Hall in Oakland which was a closed meeting, and someone stayed at the door and actually checked cards in, checked people in from positive knowledge. There is no secondhand arrangement; it was firsthand knowledge. 41002-54-pt. 2 This particular meeting that I recall to some extent-I recall a girl and her mother who had been previously expelled I believe previous to my time with the party, who, from information I had received from the Manleys, had been a long-time member, had tried to crash this party, and they had actually got in, and when it was discovered that she was there, she was carried out bodily by a man by the name of Bill Clifford and another man by the name of George Edwards, so they were very strict. Mr. VELDE. In that particular instance they had determined that this person was no longer a member of the Communist Party? Mr. HILL. That is right. Mr. VELDE. So she could not attend a closed meeting? Mr. HILL. That is right. Mr. DOYLE. Mr. Chairman, may I ask this question right along that line? Mr. VELDE. Mr. Doyle. Mr. DOYLE. Was it an established practice during the time you were in the party to always require the identification of a party card to attend a closed meeting? In other words, was that the only way you could attend? Mr. HILL. Further on in my experience in the party carrying a card was frowned on very definitely for security reasons because there had been occasions, especially in the case of women, where their purses had been lost; they had been carrying them in their purses, and they were constantly afraid of the FBI finding or having them turned in, and so later on in the thing, when security was tightened up more, carrying cards was definitely frowned on, and admission to meetings of that sort was by recognition by responsible people. Mr. VELDE. About what year was this that the carrying of cards was frowned upon? Mr. HILL. Well, security tightened up strongly in about late 1947 and 1948-1948 was a strong year for security. Mr. VELDE. Again may I ask you, you are talking about the security within the Communist Party? Mr. HILL. Yes; that is right. Mr. VELDE. Not the security of the United States? Mr. HILL. No; the security of the Communist Party. Mr, MOULDER. That is, the secrecy of it? Mr. HILL. That is right. Mr. DOYLE. Then as I understand it, your statement would be that substantially beginning in 1947, if it was a closed meeting of the Communist Party, no cards were being carried or required, and it would at least require the identification at the door or some place before a person could get in? Mr. HILL. Yes; definitely. Mr. VELDE. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. Mr. KUNZIG. You had mentioned a moment ago Bill Clifford. I want to make sure the record is straight. Do you know any further facts about him, his occupation or anything of that nature? Mr. HILL. Well, later in my experience he was transferred-well, I believe at the time we were broken down into the 16th AD he was brought into our group, and as a card-carrying member-I issued 1 or 2 cards to him. Mr. KUNZIG. You therefore, of course, knew him to be a member of the Communist Party? Mr. HILL. Yes. Mr. KUNZIG. Do you happen to know his occupation at all, or is that not within your knowledge? Mr. HILL. He worked at several different jobs. The thing that stands out most is something to do with the plastering trade. Mr. KUNZIG. You were going through various names of people whom you knew to be members of the 16th AD club of the Communist Party. Would you continue with those names, please, sir? (Representative Gordon H. Scherer left the hearing room at this point.) Mr. HILL. Well, so far as the executive officers are concerned, Ida Wood and Emma Stanley both held offices from time to time. My wife held an office for quite a length of time. She was an educational director. Mr. KUNZIG. What was Ida Wood's occupation if she had one and if you remember? Mr. HILL. She was part of the time a secretary or office worker in the Alameda County office. Mr. KUNZIG. She was actually a paid worker, too, for the party? Mr. HILL. Yes, yes; and then either in that time, in between that time or previous to it, she had worked for one of the CIO unions. Mr. KUNZIG. Do you happen to know which one or what type of union? Mr. HILL. It was one of the unions that was housed in the CIO building on Grant Avenue there. She made mention, dropped it several times, that she worked there. Mr. KUNZIG. Would you go on with any other names of members whom you knew? Mr. HILL. Emma Stanley I believe I named. She was the county functionary. She held office on several different occasions. A Eugene Eagle. Mr. KUNZIG. Eugene Eagle? Mr. HILL. E-a-g-l-e. He was an optometrist. Mr. KUNZIG. Where? Mr. HILL. I hope I used the right word there-optometrist, in the business of fitting glasses, at any rate. In San Francisco. He lived in Oakland. Mr. KUNZIG. You knew him, of course, to be a member of the Communist Party? Mr. HILL. Yes; I issued cards to him. (Representative Gordon H. Scherer returned to the hearing room at this point.) Mr. KUNZIG. Any others? Mr. HILL. Al Stanley. Mr. KUNZIG. Al? Mr. HILL. I believe the name was Albert; I wouldn't state that positively. Al, he always went by. Mr. KUNZIG. Do you know his occupation or residence? Mr. HILL. My first knowledge of him was as he came out of the service, and I don't recall what he was doing. Later he had an agency for one of the hearing aid companies. Mr. KUNZIG. In San Francisco or Oakland? Mr. HILL. Berkeley, I believe. Mr. KUNZIG. You knew him of your own knowledge to be a member of the Communist Party? Mr. HILL. Yes. Mr. KUNZIG. Any others? Mr. HILL. Charlotte Kyer. Mr. KUNZIG. How do you spell that last name? Mr. HILL. I am not sure of the spelling on that. I have written down here K-y-e-r, but it could have been K-e-i-e-r. I wouldn't state definitely. Mr. KUNZIG. For the record would you put it down as K-y-e-r,1 Charlotte Kyer. Do you know her occupation or residence? Mr. HILL. She lived in Oakland. She lived within the 16th assembly district. She did secretarial work, I believe. She was involved in typing and that sort of thing. Mr. KUNZIG. You knew her to be a member of the party. Did you issue a card to her? Mr. HILL. Yes; I have issued cards to her. Mr. KUNZIG. Who else? Mr. HILL. For a short period of time a girl by the name of Janet McHarg. Mr. KUNZIG. How do you spell that? Mr. HILL. I have M-c-H-a-r-g, which I believe is correct. Mr. KUNZIG. Do you know her occupation? Mr. HILL. She was a student. Mr. KUNZIG. Where was she a student? Mr. HILL. At UC, California. Mr. KUNZIG. While she was a student at the University of California you knew her as a member of the Communist Party? Mr. HILL. I wouldn't want to state that positively. Mr. KUNZIG. Did she attend Communist Mr. HILL. She was definitely a member of the party because I have issued cards to her, but I don't recall whether it was that period that she was a student. Mr. KUNZIG. I see. But you know definitely she was a member of the party during that period of time? Mr. HILL. Yes. She was considered in the Alameda County Communist Party structure; she was recognized as a more or less leader of People's Songs. Mr. KUNZIG. People's Songs? Mr. HILL. Yes. Mr. KUNZIG. What do you mean by that? Mr. HILL. Well, I don't know just how to explain that, but the party has songs which are more or less traditional with people in struggle and in getting along, and they are very much along the line of some of the things that Burl Ives does, chanties and Mr. KUNZIG. Chants and that type of music, but as far as the words and the things used, it was Communist Party propaganda; is that right? Mr. HILL. In many cases; yes. Mr. JACKSON. I believe that People's Songs has been cited. 1 Investigation reflects K-y-e-r to be correct spelling. Mr. KUNZIG. Yes, sir; I was just going to read that. It has been cited by the California Committee on Un-American Activities in 1948 as a Communist front which was incorporated January 31, 1946, in New York City. All the productions of People's Songs, Inc. follow the Communist Party line as assiduously as do the people behind the organization. Mr. Chairman, this would be a good place to stop. Mr. VELDE. At this time the committee will stand in recess until 1:30. (Whereupon, at 12 noon, the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at 1:30 p.m. of the same day.) AFTERNOON SESSION (At the hour of 1:39 p. m. of the same day, the hearing was resumed, the following committee members being present: Representatives Donald L. Jackson (presiding), Gordon H. Scherer (appearance noted in transcript), Morgan M. Moulder, and Clyde Doyle.) Mr. JACKSON. The committee will be in order. Let the record show that for the purpose of the hearing this afternoon the subcommittee will consist of Messrs. Scherer, Moulder, and Doyle, with Jackson as acting chairman. Congressman Velde is forced to be absent from this session on official business and for that reason will not be here this afternoon. Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed? TESTIMONY OF DICKSON P. HILL-Resumed Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Hill, we had stopped your testimony at lunch time, and you had been discussing Janet McHarg. I think that was the last person about whom you gave testimony, and you were discussing the various members that you knew to be Communist Party members of the 16th assembly district. Could we continue where we stopped, and would you continue giving the names of those people whom you knew as members of the party? Mr. HILL. Would you like me to continue with the official membership first? Mr. KUNZIG. That is right. (Representative Gordon H. Scherer entered the hearing room at this point.) Mr. HILL. At one time for a short period a Mr. George Bratoff- Mr. HILL. The spelling I have is B-r-a-t-o-f-f. Mr. KUNZIG. Did you know the employment of George Bratoff? Mr. HILL. The only thing that I knew regarding his employment was that he had a small store next to the union hall, the CIO hall, I believe, on Grant Avenue in Oakland, in which he sold dolls and art items, which he had explained during the course of one of our talks, he purchased through Amtorg, the Russian trading company. Mr. KUNZIG. And you knew him to be a member of the Communist Party? Mr. HILL. Yes, I issued cards to him. |