Miss BOWEN. I refuse to answer the question on the same ground. Mr. KUNZIG. Did you ever attend a meeting of the Political Affairs Committee of the Communist Party of Alameda County? (At this point Miss Bowen conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Miss BOWEN. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it infringes my rights under two amendments to the Constitution, first amendment and the fifth amendment. Mr. KUNZIG. Did you hear the testimony of Mr. Blodgett yesterday? Miss BowEN. I was here during most of the afternoon. I was not here during all of the morning. I was out of the room on one occasion during the afternoon yesterday. Mr. KUNZIG. Did you know Charles Blodgett? Miss BOWEN. Well, that question has to do with association. I refuse to answer a question of that sort under the protection afforded me by the fifth amendment. Mr. KUNZIG. Have you ever been chairman of the Communist Party of Contra Costa County as was testified here yesterday? Miss BOWEN. That question, too, I feel I am not required to answer because the fifth amendment guarantees that no citizen shall be required to be a witness against himself. Mr. JACKSON. Do you decline to answer the question? Miss BOWEN. I do. Mr. JACKSON. For the reason previously stated? Miss BOWEN. And for the reason I stated in my answer. Mr. JACKSON. Very well. Mr. KUNZIG. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party at any time, Miss Bowen? (At this point Miss Bowen conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Miss BowEN. I refuse to answer that question under the protection afforded me by the first and fifth amendments to the Constitution. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? Miss BOWEN. That question, too, I refuse to answer on the same grounds. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. It is obvious the witness will not cooperate. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Jackson. Mr. JACKSON. No questions. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Scherer. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Doyle. Mr. DOYLE. I notice in your answers you quoted a section of the fifth amendment where you claimed the constitutional privilege. You also referred to the first amendment. What portion of the first amendment do you refer to? Miss BOWEN. Well, in answer I want to say that I don't pretend to be a lawyer, and I don't intend to engage in a legal sparring. I understood that under the first amendment I am guaranteed the right of free speech and association. Mr. DOYLE. Very well. Mr. JACKSON. The Supreme Court, I might say, has found that the right of free speech does not connote the opposite, the right of silence, and that is the finding of the highest court of the land. (At this point Miss Bowen conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. JACKSON. However, as long as the other essential amendment is there, I see no harm in taking the first. Miss BOWEN. As I said before, I am not able to engage in a legal battle with attorneys. I did understand that this question, however, is still pending before the Supreme Court. Mr. JACKSON. It is not my intention to enter into any legal sparring, but merely to point out that there has been such a finding. Miss BOWEN. I see. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Counsel, is there any reason why this witness should be further retained under subpena? Mr. KUNZIG. No, sir. Mr. VELDE. If not, the witness is dismissed. Call your next witness, please. Mr. KUNZIG. Ole Fagerhaugh. Is Mr. Ole Fagerhaugh-O-1-e F-a-g-e-r-h-a-u-g-h-present in the room as required to be under subpena? Mr. Chairman, would the police kindly check in the halls and see if Mr. Fagerhaugh is in the hall? In the meantime, Mr. Chairman, while they are checking, with your permission we will take another witness. Mr. VELDE. Fine. Mr. KUNZIG. Joseph Melia, M-e-l-i-a. Mr. VELDE. Do you solemnly swear in the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. MELIA. I do. TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH MELIA, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, HENRY ELSON Mr. KUNZIG. What is your name, sir? Mr. MELIA. Joseph Melia. Mr. KUNZIG. Is that M-e-l-i-a? Mr. MELIA. That is correct. Mr. KUNZIG. Will counsel please state his name and address for the record? Mr. ELSON. My name is Henry Elson, E-l-s-o-n. Mr. Counsel, are you interested in my office address? Mr. KUNZIG. Yes. Mr. ELSON. I am afraid I can't answer that question, sir. It seems that my former employer considered my representation of Mr. Melia at this committee hearing inconsistent with my employment, and as such, terminated the same. Mr. KUNZIG. In what county are you a member of the bar? Mr. ELSON. Alameda County. Mr. KUNZIG. Would the witness please continue now? I would like to ask: When and where were you born, Mr. Melia. Mr. MELIA. I was born in 1916 in New York. Mr. KUNZIG. And your present address, sir? Mr. MELIA. Berkeley. Mr. KUNZIG. What is your address? Mr. MELIA. 1617 Parker Street. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you currently employed, and if so, where? Mr. MELIA. I would like to answer this question, Mr. Counsel, on the basis that it seems to me this question is not pertinent to the inquiry. If your interest is in blackmailing or blacklisting, that is one thing; if it is pertinent to the inquiry, that is something else. Mr. VELDE. Let me disabuse your mind that we are blackmailing or blacklisting any witness who appears here. We are seeking information relative to subversive activities in this area, and that is all. There is no reason why you shouldn't give your present address. Mr. MELIA. I understand that two witnesses have already lost their jobs. I heard the previous witness say that she has lost her job, and yet you say this is pertinent. Mr. VELDE. It certainly is pertinent. Mr. MELIA. If it is pertinent, I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. Mr. VELDE. Your answer will be pertinent, too. Mr. KUNZIG. If the witness, Mr. Chairman, is refusing to answer where he is employed on the grounds that to do so might tend to incriminate him, may I respectfully request that he be directed to answer? to answer that Mr. VELDE. Yes, certainly; you are directed to question. (At this point Mr. Melia conferred with Mr. Elson.) Mr. MELIA. I have already stated my answer on that same grounds. Mr. VELDE. You mean the refusal to answer the question? Mr. MELIA. That is right. Mr. VELDE. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. Mr. MELIA. I want to make it clear, however, that since you said this was pertinent to the inquiry, that it is on the grounds of the fifth amendment, and I therefore refuse to be a witness against myself. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Melia, do you know Charles Blodgett ? Mr. MELIA. I refuse to answer that question the grounds that it might incriminate me, and on the fifth amendment. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Blodgett testified here yesterday that he knew you as a member of the Political Affairs Committee of the Communist Party of Alameda County. Have you ever been a member of that committee? Mr. MELIA. My political beliefs, I believe, are my own. I think that the first amendment to the Constitution provides that a person may have free speech and free association. I therefore refuse to answer that question, both on the grounds of the first amendment and on the grounds of the fifth amendment, on the grounds of the ninth and tenth amendments. Mr. KUNZIG. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? Mr. MELIA. My answer is the same. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? Mr. MELIA. My answer is the same. Mr. KUNZIG. Do you know Dickson Hill, the former undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation Mr. MELIA. My answer is the same. Mr. KUNZIG. Just let me finish the question, do you mind? Do you know Dickson Hill, who testified here that he had been a former FBI agent? Mr. MELIA. My answer is the same. Mr. KUNZIG. Undercover agent for the FBI? Mr. JACKSON. For the reasons previously stated? Mr. MELIA. For the reasons previously stated. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Melia, Mr. Hill identified you and said he knew you to be a member of the Communist Party. Did you know Mr. Hill? Mr. MELIA. I have already answered that question. Mr. SCHERER. Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Scherer. Mr. SCHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the question. Mr. VELDE. The witness is directed, in the line with regular policy of the committee, to answer that question. There is no reason that we can see why that would tend to incriminate you in any way, your acquaintanceship with any person. (At this point Mr. Melia conferred with Mr. Elson.) Mr. MELIA. My refusal to answer that question is based on the fifth amendment; I will not be a witness against myself. Mr. KUNZIG. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Jackson. Mr. JACKSON. No questions. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Doyle. Mr. DOYLE. I think, Mr. Chairman, the record ought to show at this point that in addition to what our chairman has said about the purpose of this investigation, the abundant evidence shows that the Communist Party is subversive in its activities and purposes. I wish to reiterate again, we are not interested in anyone that may differ in opinion, have different political beliefs, but because it is well established that the Communist Party is subversive in its intents and purposes, we are interested in uncovering any person or any group of persons that are subversive. Mr. VELDE. The chair concurs with the gentleman from California. Is there any reason, Mr. Counsel, why this witness should be further retained under subpena? Mr. KUNZIG. No reason, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. The witness is dismissed. Call your next witness, please. Mr. KUNZIG. Paul Schlipf, S-c-h-l-i-p-f. Mr. VELDE. In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. SCHLIPF. I do. TESTIMONY OF PAUL SCHLIPF, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, GEORGE ANDERSEN Mr. KUNZIG. Would you kindly state your full name, please? Mr. KUNZIG. Would you spell it, please, sir? Mr. SCHLIPF. S-c-h-l-i-p-f. Mr. KUNZIG. I note you are accompanied by counsel. Would counsel please state his name and office address for the record? Mr. ANDERSEN. My name is George Andersen, 240 Montgomery Street, San Francisco. Mr. KUNZIG. What is your present address, Mr. Schlipf? Mr. SCHLIPF. I live in Oakland. Mr. KUNZIG. The street address? Mr. SCHLIPF. 791 Prospect. Mr. KUNZIG. When and where were you born, sir? Mr. SCHLIPF. I was born in 1905 in Indiana. Mr. KUNZIG. Where in Indiana? Mr. SCHLIPF. On a farm. Mr. KUNZIG. What is the farm near, the town, please, or city? Mr. SCHLIPF. Well, it is between, almost equidistance between a couple of towns. Mr. KUNZIG. Now would you please name those towns, Mr. Schlipf? Mr. SCHLIPF. Well, Goodland is one of them. Mr. KUNZIG. How do you spell that? Mr. SCHLIPF. Goodland? Mr. KUNZIG. Yes. Mr. SCHLIPF. Goodland. Mr. KUNZIG. G-o-o-d-l-a-n-d? Mr. SCHLIPF. G-o-o-d-l-a-n-d, Goodland. Mr. KUNZIG. I see. That is the name of the town? (At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) Mr. SCHLIPF. I beg your pardon? Mr. KUNZIG. Is that the name of the town? Mr. SCHLIPF. Yes; and another town, Remington, I believe is a little closer. It is the Corn Belt district. Mr. KUNZIG. What is your present employment, Mr. Schlipf? Mr. KUNZIG. Where are you employed? Mr. SCHLIPF. I am employed in Oakland in an automobile plant. Mr. KUNZIG. Have you ever been secretary of the Alameda County labor union, CIO? Mr. SCHLIPF. Yes, yes. Mr. KUNZIG. When was that, sir? Mr. ANDERSEN. Wait just a moment, please. (At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) Mr. VELDE. Yes; give the witness an opportunity to consult with his counsel. Mr. KUNZIG. Certainly, all the time in the world. Mr. ANDERSEN. Would you repeat the question, please? Mr. VELDE. Will the reporter repeat the question, please? (The question was read by the reporter as follows: "When was that, sir?") (At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) Mr. SCHLIPF. I don't recall the exact dates. It was over a period of time before the war and then I was away in the Army for 4 years, and then I was again active in that capacity after the war. Mr. KUNZIG. Were you ever at any time the legislative assistant to the California CIO council? Mr. SCHLIPF. Yes. Mr. KUNZIG. What period of time was that? Mr. SCHLIPF. Well, that was-I again don't remember the exact dates; approximately 4 or 5 years ago, I would say. |